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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 6 of 6. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Brot on March 31, 2011, at 15:04:19
so, i hope i used the correct word for this.
Its weired. when i agressively do something agaionst my tongue coating (which is bad if I dont do something) I feel better (brushing the tounge, using disinfection fluid etc)
So, are you "treatment resistant" and have a bad tongue coating???
Posted by bleauberry on March 31, 2011, at 16:23:41
In reply to Tongue Coating and Depression, posted by Brot on March 31, 2011, at 15:04:19
A bad tongue coating is often yeast, fungus,, candida. These organisms secrete toxins that don't feel good, similar or identical to depression. You will naturally feel better with fewer toxins.
There are lots of herbs and medicines for that. I've tried a bunch. In the meds category, Diflucan was great. For herbs, I personally found nothing more potent than a raw garlic clove at bedtime for a few nights. A number of herbs are potent antiyeast, antifungul, anticandida, and antibacterial all at the same time. Just google candida and herbs to learn more. Along the search you will likely come across mention of the tongue coating being a common clue.
It's hard to understand how a substance that is not psychoactive can work against depression. Your example shows how that does work, depending on whether the treatment is hitting the right cause or not.
Posted by Phillipa on March 31, 2011, at 19:49:35
In reply to Re: Tongue Coating and Depression, posted by bleauberry on March 31, 2011, at 16:23:41
I don't see how a coated tongue could be associated with depression. If you google pictures of tongues and coatings you should get a lot of good pics to compare to your tongue. Phillipa
Posted by bleauberry on April 2, 2011, at 7:33:16
In reply to Re: Tongue Coating and Depression, posted by Phillipa on March 31, 2011, at 19:49:35
> I don't see how a coated tongue could be associated with depression. If you google pictures of tongues and coatings you should get a lot of good pics to compare to your tongue. Phillipa
I'm glad you brought this up, because I'm sure most people would wonder the same thing.
Tongue coating is usually fungal. Candida common.
Just as we can absorb substances (meds, herbs, supplements) readily through the linings of the mouth (as in sublingual absorption), the toxins secreted by organisms absorb the same way. The toxins have direct immediate access to the blood stream and are merely inches from the brain and important nerves leading to the rest of the body.
What toxins are we talking about? How can they cause depression? We need more research on this, as just about any topic in depression and other mystery diseases. The sad truth is, humans know very little.
There are various toxins involved. For starters, think poop and pee. The waste of organisms has to feel good circulating in the brain and adrenal glands, right? I don't think so. The toxins in question are similar to formaldahyde, acetyldehyde, and the chemicals of alcohol breakdown (similar to the ones that cause hangover). All of them are quite potent in the nervous system.
What do they do? Again, more research needed. Thus far there is preliminary evidence that they:
1) Clog thyroid receptors....thus normal thyroid blood labs, but thyroid not able to use what is in the blood because it is locked out by the toxin.
2) Same with adrenal glands.
3) Joins with serotonin molecules and to create a corrupted mutated version of serotonin.
4) Same with dopamine.
5) Throws the immune system into overload and confusion, which in itself is indirectly tied to the neurotransmitters, thyroid, and adrenals.
6. Causes excess cytokines and inflammation throughout, including the brain and nervous system.
7) The toxins have a high affinity for our natural opioid receptors.Those just for starters. I'm sure there is much we don't know.
If an organism has been able to take over the tongue, the likelihood of it being systemic elsewhere in the body has to be considered as likely as well.
Even if someone does not understand any of these, all they need to know is....a common scenario is that depression disappears when appropriate treatment removes the offending cause. My doctor has seen more of his depression patients improve on antimicrobial treatments than antidepression treatments, usually with a lack of proof that there was indeed a microbial problem. We like to know ahead of time what to treat....and I think this is unrealistic and backwards. We have to be suspicious and treat blindly sometimes in order to make the diagnosis. Without such "probing", success remains illusive.
My own experiences have proved to me that all of the above are true. Why do I say that? Because no matter what antimicrobial I took....antifunal herb, antifungal medicine, antibacterial herb, antibacterial medicine, immune system modulate....the immediate reaction was lifting of depression and the ability to get benefit from psych meds that otherwise did not provide benefit or caused deterioration.
I think it takes an open mind with a desire to conquer depression to fully understand the topics that would "seem" alternative, bizarre, or unproven. When in fact, in my opinion, it is the first line use of psych meds as a means of permanent control that is alternative, bizarre, and unproven.
Posted by Hombre on April 6, 2011, at 22:17:44
In reply to Tongue Coating and Depression, posted by Brot on March 31, 2011, at 15:04:19
Looking at the tongue is still used in Chinese medicine as in indicator of many things. It used to part of regular medicine, but, well...
A thick coating can mean a damp Spleen i.e. poor digestion and mucus build up. A damp spleen will lead to abdominal bloating, indigestion, constipation and/or diarrhea, etc.
Too much dampness can lead to Phlegm, which along with regular phlegm, may cause a sense of fogginess, lethargy, and even cloud the mind. I don't pretend to understand the exact mechanisms, BUT, there are herbs that treat this, and they do treat the symptoms.
Basic formula for spleen (and energy):
9g ginseng or double the amount of dang shen (codonopsis)
9g white atractylodes (bai zhu)
9g poria (fu ling)
3-6g honey friend licorice root (gan cao), or regular licorice root if you don't want to prepare itThis will enhance digestion, eliminate excess dampness, and give energy. I use a formula based on these herbs and it is in indispensable part of my antidepression routine.
Posted by Elanor Roosevelt on April 10, 2011, at 10:24:25
In reply to Re: Tongue Coating and Depression, posted by Hombre on April 6, 2011, at 22:17:44
Are you taking Lithium by any chance?
I find that Lithium gives my tongue a slippery coating.
This is the end of the thread.
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