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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by uncouth on December 19, 2010, at 14:48:24
Hi everyone,
It's been quite some time since I've posted. Last time I posed was talking about how effective phenylethylamine (PEA) was for me probalby 6-9 months ago. Unfortunately, I became dependent on it, and tolerant such that I had to increase the dose substantially. It caused some mixed hypomania, and exacerbated other addictive tendencies, especially internet addiction. It interfered with my sleep, but still, it was more effective than virtually all antidepressants I've tried at raising my mood, and it did so immediately.
An amazing side effect was that it reduced my smoking by 80%, and I only smoke 2-3 cigarettes a day and don't even feel compulsed to or crave it, it's more out of habit (message me if you wan't to know the details about how I reduced my smoking...)
However, things came to a head 3 months ago with the PEA causing mood instability (got in 4 fender benders within 3 months my fault, couldn't focus on a single taxk for any measurable period of time, lost a shitload of money in the stockmarket basically gambling on high risk stock options...as a result of the PEA plus hypomania induced by cymbalta and abilify). So my doctor and parents pushed me into RESIDENTIAL treatment (aka rehab) for both the bipolar instability, the compulsive self-medicating with PEA and other prescription drugs (buying them from overseas, mixing them), and compulsive use of supplaments. I was on over 40 supplaments and meds 4 months ago! And all of them had a specific "rationale" based on my compulsive and obsessive research of primary sources and academic journal articles via Pubmed.com
SO anyway, I spent 9 weeks in a high end residential facility (althoug not so high end that only celebrities went there), 100 bed facility in Arizona (which if you didn't know, seems to be the center of rehab / treatment facilities in the country). It had a ton of holistic therapies too, EMDR, neurofeedback/biofeedback, 12 steps, summer camp-like teambuilding exercises, and a incredibly diverse group of people I met. It was one of the best experiences of my life, and I got a ton out of it and I thought I had made some significant headway on my issues.
It was so freeing and refreshing and felt so good to not be connected to the internet 18 hours a day. I only had 2 hours of internet access a week, and after a while, I didn't even crave that amount. Without the distraction of internet and thinking about my depression issues in a state of fear or feeling like I had to solve my own problems, I was able to do deeper work in both groups and individually and just spendin ga ton of time talking about issues with the other patients. I also was more creative in terms of ideas (business ideas mostly) than I had ever been in my life. Played a ton of backgammon and even learned how to play pickleball. I'm happy to provide more details if you are interested if you private message me. It cost an arm and a leg though, I can't give details on this public forum but suffice to say it wasn't some budget facility.
However, when I came back 6 weeks ago, to my old environment, to my isolation in San Francisco where I live alone, to no job or stable daily routine, and to my money problems, car issues (my car broke down and I can't afford a down payment on a new one), and to the pressure of feeling like I had to succeed in longer term treatment goals, I basically relapsed within 2 weeks.
I didn't go to 12 step meetings and I'm still resisting it now, coming up with excuses or "forgetting" to go every day. I'm still on the PEA. And I'm still struggling with supplement compulsivity (although I am *not* ordering meds from overseas besides tianeptine which was agreed upon by my doctor). I'm still obsessing over my med regime (High does wellbutrin (600mg, our target is to get to 900), 400mg lamictal, 120 geodon, deplin, starting tianeptine in a week or two, 25mcg of Thyroid T3, and my endocrinologist is letting me try 1cc of testosterone shot each week, along with HCG injections every day. I'm totally overmedicated but feel trapped. Oh, and I'm also trying baclofen which in the past few years has shown incredible efficacy in controlling alchol, stimulant, and other addictions as It abolishes cravings significantly.
IF YOU ARE STRUGGLING WITH ADDICTION OR CRAVING, YOU *MUST* IMMEDIATELY INVESTIGATE BACLOFEN AND ASK YOUR DOCTOR ABOUT IT ASAP. Some people are calling it the magic bullet for addiction, and the first potential CURE for alcoholism and cocaine and etc. addiction.
I'm also doing intense neurofeedback (LENS, Brainfield i think its called, z-score, and using this incredibly unique and one-of-a-kind device called pRoshi which is a light stimulator that actually normalizes and smooths out your EEG patterns and eliminates spikes in your frequency spectrum. Look into it too, and I'm happyt o answer follow up questions.
In treatment, I tried a bunch of different meds and combinations, including 200mg of Rilutek for 4 weeks, which I think was actually moderately effective and similar to Lamotrigine in it's effects, but withou thte cognitive and memory issues. I'd still be on it if it wasn't for the incredibly expensiveness of the drug. ($1500 a month at least for 200mg).
I'm highly optimistic about tianeptine, and it's been actually getting more interest over the past 2-3 years and being looked at more seriously by US based psychiatrists, even though its not availble here. The proliferation of research on glutamate dysfunction as a major causitive factor (and potential final common pathway for all sorts of drugs) has caused increasd excitement into tianeptine, as it's one of the few drugs that works directly on both glutamate, stress resilience, neurogenesis, and even cognition. And with low side effects!
I hope someday they create a extended release version that is approved in this country.
I'm also thinking about trying Oleptra, that new extended release version of trazodone. My doctor is quite enthused by it. I'll try it if the wellbutrin doesn't work.
Anyway, I know this was an incredibly long email, but I haven't posted in ages and major stuff has been happening.
I'mf alling back into depression right now, partially due to going off of Emsam and having gone back to my old difficult environment and problems after treatment. I'll make another post about some help I need deciding what to do next.
PM me with any and all private questions or ask me opublicly and i'll respond without delay to this threat.
Best,
Uncouth
Posted by sigismund on December 19, 2010, at 15:33:13
In reply to Hi, need some help and Residential Treatment sugge, posted by uncouth on December 19, 2010, at 14:48:24
It's absolutely wonderful to hear from you and to hear your interesting account of events. I wish you could give me effective and more importantly successful lessons in how to make money on the stockmarket with financial products. I've never felt tempted because I feel too stupid to understand the books I have on how derivatives traders have scammed the world. I have heard people say that of Baclofen. I tried PEA but at the 1g dose I just felt a body zap thingo. Nice to hear from you, Alex.
Posted by mellow on December 19, 2010, at 17:07:25
In reply to Hi, need some help and Residential Treatment sugge, posted by uncouth on December 19, 2010, at 14:48:24
Have you considered getting into a sober living environment? Most people who leave residential treatment relapse just as you describe, very quickly if they do not find a daily routine and balance in life. Most of the guys from my 12 step group that have made it out of residential type treatment are guys that have totally simplified their life and been fully committed to recovery.
Some of them lived in 3/4 houses for up to 18 months and slowly transitioned back into having their own apartment, working full time, dating, etc.
Do you have one doctor that can sort of lead you through this? Having several doctor prescribing different drugs and giving you the go ahead to order stuff online probably isn't a recipe for success. With my addiction issues I have to put my meds in my psychiatrist hands and do as he says. If I'm unsure I ask my sponsor about what he thinks and he will generally tell me to trust my doc and stay out of it. I take what I'm prescribed and leave it up to the professionals.
I have gotten seriously obsessed with supplements, vitamins and researching prescription meds. In the end I was doing worse not better. What I am basically trying to convey to you is that as an alcoholic and drug addict I have to let go and let life happen as it is going to happen. The more and more I try and control life the more it slips away from me and gets still more dysfunctional.
I hope you find some peace dude.
mellow
Posted by Phillipa on December 19, 2010, at 17:32:16
In reply to Re: Hi, need some help and Residential Treatment sugge, posted by mellow on December 19, 2010, at 17:07:25
Uncouth has it really been that long your absense as seems like yesterday you were here. Just wanted to say I wish you well. And glad you had the ability to attend what sounds like a wonderful rehab facility. Phillipa
Posted by linkadge on December 19, 2010, at 17:57:29
In reply to Hi, need some help and Residential Treatment sugge, posted by uncouth on December 19, 2010, at 14:48:24
>It caused some mixed hypomania, and exacerbated >other addictive tendencies, especially internet >addiction. It interfered with my sleep, but >still, it was more effective than virtually all >antidepressants I've tried at raising my mood, >and it did so immediately.
Have you ever tried lithium? Lithium has a stabilizing effect on the synthesis / excretion of PEA. Low PEA is thought to exist in bipolar depression (hence the immediate AD effect), yet high in mania. Perhaps you have more of a PEA instability then low PEA?
>I was on over 40 supplaments and meds 4 months >ago! And all of them had a specific "rationale" >based on my compulsive and obsessive research of >primary sources and academic journal articles >via Pubmed.com
Yikes, I used to be a bit more compulsive with supplements, but right now its down to just omega 3 and sometimes 1-2 more. I assume you've tried a MAO-B inhibitor.
>Without the distraction of internet and thinking >about my depression issues in a state of fear or >feeling like I had to solve my own problems, I >was able to do deeper work in both groups and >individually and just spendin ga ton of time >talking about issues with the other patients.
Thats what I was getting to in the above thread. Getting to a place where one is *not* thinking about meds.
>I also was more creative in terms of ideas
>(business ideas mostly) than I had ever been in >my life. Played a ton of backgammon and even >learned how to play pickleball. I'm happy to >provide more details if you are interested if >you private message me. It cost an arm and a leg >though, I can't give details on this public >forum but suffice to say it wasn't some budget >facility.You must have some $! I've always contented that nothing beats having $ and being stable about it all. Although, I don't care about risk, period. I am quite happy with my ALLY 3.3% guarenteed interest rate. Set it, and forget it. My goal is to have just enough money that I can stop thinking about money.
>Oh, and I'm also trying baclofen which in the >past few years has shown incredible efficacy in >controlling alchol, stimulant, and other >addictions as It abolishes cravings >significantly.
What about some mediation. Meditation builds grey matter in the parietal lobes - the parts of the brain that have the capacity to feel pleasure with the "here and now".
THE BIGGEST LIE ABOUT HAPPINESS IS THAT YOU HAVE TO GET MORE, DO MORE, BE MORE, to be happy.
>In treatment, I tried a bunch of different meds >and combinations, including 200mg of Rilutek for >4 weeks, which I think was actually moderately >effective and similar to Lamotrigine in it's >effects, but withou thte cognitive and memory >issues. I'd still be on it if it wasn't for the >incredibly expensiveness of the drug. ($1500 a >month at least for 200mg).
What about just letting go? You have more ability to control the activity in your brain (without medications) than you may believe. Desire breeds discontent. The more you want to control, the less happy you will be.
>The proliferation of research on glutamate >dysfunction as a major causitive factor (and >potential final common pathway for all sorts of >drugs) has caused increasd excitement into >tianeptine, as it's one of the few drugs that >works directly on both glutamate, stress >resilience, neurogenesis, and even cognition. >And with low side effects!>I'm also thinking about trying Oleptra, that new >extended release version of trazodone. My doctor >is quite enthused by it. I'll try it if the >wellbutrin doesn't work.
Do you hear yourself? You seem to still be deriving extreme pleasure just from the discussion of medications and their purported effects.
>Anyway, I know this was an incredibly long >email, but I haven't posted in ages and major >stuff has been happening.
How long are you able to sit (doing nothing) and feel content?
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on December 19, 2010, at 18:02:05
In reply to Re: Hi, need some help and Residential Treatment sugge » uncouth, posted by sigismund on December 19, 2010, at 15:33:13
"I wish you could give me effective and more importantly successful lessons in how to make money on the stockmarket with financial products."
Theres nothing to learn, IMHO.
My strategy:
- Maximize input, minimize output
- Put your money in the highest guarenteed investment
- WaitLinkadge
Posted by Maxime on December 19, 2010, at 19:58:44
In reply to Re: Hi, need some help and Residential Treatment sugge, posted by mellow on December 19, 2010, at 17:07:25
You have offered some excellent advice.
> Have you considered getting into a sober living environment? Most people who leave residential treatment relapse just as you describe, very quickly if they do not find a daily routine and balance in life. Most of the guys from my 12 step group that have made it out of residential type treatment are guys that have totally simplified their life and been fully committed to recovery.
>
> Some of them lived in 3/4 houses for up to 18 months and slowly transitioned back into having their own apartment, working full time, dating, etc.
>
> Do you have one doctor that can sort of lead you through this? Having several doctor prescribing different drugs and giving you the go ahead to order stuff online probably isn't a recipe for success. With my addiction issues I have to put my meds in my psychiatrist hands and do as he says. If I'm unsure I ask my sponsor about what he thinks and he will generally tell me to trust my doc and stay out of it. I take what I'm prescribed and leave it up to the professionals.
>
> I have gotten seriously obsessed with supplements, vitamins and researching prescription meds. In the end I was doing worse not better. What I am basically trying to convey to you is that as an alcoholic and drug addict I have to let go and let life happen as it is going to happen. The more and more I try and control life the more it slips away from me and gets still more dysfunctional.
>
> I hope you find some peace dude.
>
> mellow
Posted by PartlyCloudy on December 20, 2010, at 9:56:38
In reply to Re: Hi, need some help and Residential Treatment sugge, posted by mellow on December 19, 2010, at 17:07:25
> Have you considered getting into a sober living environment? Most people who leave residential treatment relapse just as you describe, very quickly if they do not find a daily routine and balance in life. Most of the guys from my 12 step group that have made it out of residential type treatment are guys that have totally simplified their life and been fully committed to recovery.
>
> Some of them lived in 3/4 houses for up to 18 months and slowly transitioned back into having their own apartment, working full time, dating, etc.
>
> Do you have one doctor that can sort of lead you through this? Having several doctor prescribing different drugs and giving you the go ahead to order stuff online probably isn't a recipe for success. With my addiction issues I have to put my meds in my psychiatrist hands and do as he says. If I'm unsure I ask my sponsor about what he thinks and he will generally tell me to trust my doc and stay out of it. I take what I'm prescribed and leave it up to the professionals.
>
> I have gotten seriously obsessed with supplements, vitamins and researching prescription meds. In the end I was doing worse not better. What I am basically trying to convey to you is that as an alcoholic and drug addict I have to let go and let life happen as it is going to happen. The more and more I try and control life the more it slips away from me and gets still more dysfunctional.
>
> I hope you find some peace dude.
>
> mellowExcellent post - thank you!
Posted by floatingbridge on December 26, 2010, at 16:35:09
In reply to Hi, need some help and Residential Treatment sugge, posted by uncouth on December 19, 2010, at 14:48:24
Hi Uncouth, good to hear from you.
I want you to really feel better, and so I'm seconding Mellow's advice.
A male relative with addictions /compulsions and BPI did this:
Moved out of the big city.
Moved to the sticks--that did not work out :)
Moved near a metropolitan area nice suburb, close to a family that knew him and loved him. He had some stable connection to trust.Found a business (real estate and rehabbing homes). Broke down walls with sledgehammers.
Still day trades, but having a hands-on business doesn't allow him the unstructured time.
Works out intensely.
He's very smart, ex-Wall St. Did AA but didn't stick; somehow he remains sober, in part, because he channels excess energy into more constructive means.
However, he did AA for sometime, and I think just showing up to the meetings gave him more than he might have realized.
And my own two cents is have one doctor you trust oversee your med /supplement intake.
I can see how life after your great rehab experience would be incredibly challengeing. :( Maybe step out to some meetings. Do you talk at them? Maybe you haven't found one you clicked with yet?
Wishing you the best,
fb
Posted by MissThang on December 27, 2010, at 13:37:30
In reply to Hi, need some help and Residential Treatment sugge, posted by uncouth on December 19, 2010, at 14:48:24
Uncouth -- I'm curious about your dr. letting you go up to 600-900mg of wellbutrin xl. My understanding is that doses of over 450mg bring about too high of a seizure risk, though I understand most of the seizure studies were done on immediate and sustained release wellbutrin and therefore the safety of the xl formulation should be, in theory, greater.
Has your dr. put other patients on 600mg+ of wellbutrin xl without seizure events? I ask because I'm coming off my failed parnate trial and I plan to return to wellbutrin xl, but I really wanted to try boosting my dose from 450mg to 600mg if my dr. and I can be convinced that it's safe. It's the only AD that's ever worked for me, but it pooped out at 450mg a couple of years ago and I think I'd have to have a higher dose if I want its prior effectiveness to return.
Anyway -- thanks in advance for your help with this matter. I suspect 600mg xl is much safer than 600mg immediate release or sr, but I'd like to hear what your dr. has to say about it. Thanks!
Posted by uncouth on December 30, 2010, at 18:48:15
In reply to Re: Hi, need some help and Residential Treatment sugge, posted by MissThang on December 27, 2010, at 13:37:30
doctor said he's comfortable with it because i'm on a reasonably high dose of lamictal an anticonvulsant (300-400mg)
This is the end of the thread.
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