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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 7 of 7. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by alexcanada on November 9, 2010, at 3:17:08
Parnate is one of the few meds to work for me ever since I got hit by accutane poisoning at a young age. now 9 years later i am still dealing with heavy depression and to a lesser extent anxiety.
I recently increased my dose of parnate from 15mg to 22.5 and 25mg a day. For some people including myself dose increases on Parn create a very rapid and positive result which levels off after a bit. I went from feeling horrendous and completely unproductive and unable to enjoy anything around me to someone whom can actually live some kind of a life.
But here's the problem.... Insomnia has hit and it has hit extremely strong. Zero sleep the night before and 2 hours sleep today.
My doctor is unwilling to prescribe anything unless I get some ideas. Anti-psychotics work to a small degree from what i recall But they ruin a lot of the positive effect which Parnate creates and it's not easy to function when I cant think properly and constantly forget things.
So what can possibly help me? He is unwilling to give me ambien for some reason so I need to find other options as he is out of ideas himself. Valium does little if anything and I recently have weened myself off of it after taking it for a very very long time. Over the counter sleep aids have been worthless. bendryl allergy has limited results. gravol even less effective. cough syrup is not safe to take with parnate and would make my heart beat very quickly. calomile tea doesn't work. zipicone does not work.
so please if you can offer me any suggestions because i would for once like to get on with my life. i do not want to lose another christmas when i have so few ppl in my life to begin with. even if your ideas are very outside of the box or something that is only rarely used for sleep then still post it because i really need some help.
Posted by Tomatheus on November 9, 2010, at 10:57:10
In reply to Parnate causing extreme insomnia. What can help?, posted by alexcanada on November 9, 2010, at 3:17:08
Alexcanada,
Have you tried melatonin? Melatonin isn't a viable option for me because I feel more depressed and agitated the day after I take the supplement. I have, however, found melatonin to be reasonably effective at inducing and sustaining sleep.
It might be worth a try if you haven't already taken it.
Tomatheus
Posted by sigismund on November 9, 2010, at 13:08:38
In reply to Parnate causing extreme insomnia. What can help?, posted by alexcanada on November 9, 2010, at 3:17:08
Alex, did you say at some point that lower doses of Parnate were more effective for you?
Is there anything that can help Parnate induced insomnia without destroying the therapeutic effect?
Gabapentin? Sometimes it can be of assistance.
Posted by alexcanada on November 9, 2010, at 16:35:41
In reply to Re: Parnate causing extreme insomnia. What can help?, posted by sigismund on November 9, 2010, at 13:08:38
yes it appeared that way for sure. there was a time 2 years ago when even 10mg parn was working some wonders. but its a very peculiar medication. this year it more consistently has helped at 20mg and up. 22.5 i been averaging past 2 days. today i'll be going for 25mg.
this morning was quite remarkable in terms of motivation boost and sense of enjoyment.
i was able to take a nap and got 4 hours of sleep not long ago and upon waking i feel rested but my mood has dropped down a bit but may be likely to not taking any ritalin in a while or gabapentin withdrawal.
i do actually take gabapentin 1-2 times a day 300mg dose each time.
i don't know if it's been effective for sleep but i usually dont take it at night. it loses it's effect and i have to stop and start it up again from time to time and it's expensive for me so i try to take it only during the day where it will help my mood the most.
but what else do you feel gabapentin does for people? hard to find proper informaion. for me it tends to help make me more social as well as lifting my mood.
> Alex, did you say at some point that lower doses of Parnate were more effective for you?
>
> Is there anything that can help Parnate induced insomnia without destroying the therapeutic effect?
>
> Gabapentin? Sometimes it can be of assistance.
Posted by alexcanada on November 9, 2010, at 16:38:19
In reply to Re: Parnate causing extreme insomnia. What can help?, posted by Tomatheus on November 9, 2010, at 10:57:10
have tried melatonin in the past for parn induced insomnia. did not cut it from what i recall ;(
> Alexcanada,
>
> Have you tried melatonin? Melatonin isn't a viable option for me because I feel more depressed and agitated the day after I take the supplement. I have, however, found melatonin to be reasonably effective at inducing and sustaining sleep.
>
> It might be worth a try if you haven't already taken it.
>
> Tomatheus
Posted by sigismund on November 9, 2010, at 20:23:05
In reply to Re: Parnate causing extreme insomnia. What can help? » sigismund, posted by alexcanada on November 9, 2010, at 16:35:41
>but what else do you feel gabapentin does for people? hard to find proper informaion. for me it tends to help make me more social as well as lifting my mood.
Yes, that's about it.
It can be good for deepening sleep but whether it would cut it for parnate induced insomnia I don't know.
Posted by bleauberry on November 10, 2010, at 17:23:22
In reply to Parnate causing extreme insomnia. What can help?, posted by alexcanada on November 9, 2010, at 3:17:08
I could suggest a combo of two or three plants with fairly strong sleep inducing qualities, but there is no way to know how they would mix with Parnate. Safe or not? Don't know.
I have encountered the kind of insomnia you are dealing with. It is pretty intense.
As much as I prefer a natural or plant based route to treat symptoms and heal disease, in this case I think a potent sleep drug is warranted. Choices would include things such as Lunesta, klonopin, xanax, restoril, low dose remeron (1mg-7.5mg, extremely potent at that tiny dose, much more sedating than higher doses), and with some reservation I might mention low dose (10mg-50mg) seroquel. I hate to see potent antipsychotics used solely for sleep, but a lot of people do it. I guess what ever can get you to sleep is a good thing. Whatever problems or side effects that develop from that are the next chapter. But for now, the chapter is on getting to sleep.
Melatonin has nowhere near the kind of potency to deal with this kind of insomnia. Though it is still a good supplement to take for a host of other reasons. And would likely help whatever else you take to work better. Synergy is a good thing in my book.
If it were me, my first choice would be Lunesta. Second choice ultra low dose remeron. Third choice, combine them.
This is the end of the thread.
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