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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by emmanuel98 on August 3, 2010, at 3:57:31
In reply to Re: Weight loss meds, posted by morgan miller on August 3, 2010, at 3:14:53
I wonder though. Are you overweight? Have you ever gained 40 pounds from psych meds then tried to lose them? I tried a diet where I varied my calories from 1000 to 1200 to 1500 a day, so as not to go into fasting metabolism. Didn't lose a pound. I lifted weights for years, though now I am so fat I'm embarassed to lift weights with all the mirrors in the rooms. I swim 3-4 times a week and interval train. No go. Are you a middle-aged woman? Weight loss gets more and more difficult when you are.
This si a problem for me because I have arthritis in one knee that is made much worse by the weight. Also, parnate is not holding me, but I refust to accept this since the alternative, nardil, almost always causes weight gain and I will never take a med again that cause weight gain. I tried all the AAPs and they all worked for me (except geodon) and they all made me gain weight at frighening rates -- risperdal, 15 pounds in one month. Zyprexa -- 15 pounds in three weeks. Abilify -- 10-12 pounds a month and this was so affective that i tried it for months, with cytomel, metformin, alli.
Posted by emmanuel98 on August 3, 2010, at 4:03:42
In reply to Re: Weight loss meds, posted by morgan miller on August 3, 2010, at 3:14:53
One more thing that I have hated about gaining weight Everone's an expert. First, there's the assumption that I have bad eating habits, which I don't. Then theres the well-meaning but ignorant suggestions. One woman told me I shouldn't swim because swimming didn't cause you to burn calories, but running did. (I think she was thiking about bone loss. Not that it matterw. I can't tn on my arthritic knee unless I lose more weight). One person told me I shouldn't eat bananas, since they were high in fat (I think she was thinking about the atkins diet). And so on. It gets tiring
Posted by morgan miller on August 3, 2010, at 4:58:28
In reply to Re: Weight loss meds, posted by emmanuel98 on August 3, 2010, at 4:03:42
I hear ya, you definitely have some things going on that are making managing your weight very difficult. Sorry, I think I got a little frustrated with your earlier post, as I'm sure you did with mine.
I guess all you can do is keep trying and hope that some treatment/treatments will help you feel better without effecting weight gain and metabolism too much. I know, it seems like it's impossible until newer better medications are available.
So I guess metformin didn't help huh. Were you taking metformin, cytomel, and alli at the same time. If you were, then wow, that sucks that they didn't help.
I know it must be frustrating having people that don't know what they are talking about tell you what you should and should not do. I'm sure it's still frustrating when someone does know what they are talking about gives you advice.
You say you do eat well right now but didn't you say you only eat 800 calories a day, right? I really do think asking your doctor or a good nutritionist what they think would be helpful. I don't see how your brain and body could be getting everything they need on such a low daily caloric intake.
What are all the meds you are on now? Parnate and what else? Sorry I'm just curious.
Well all I can say is try hard to not give up, there is hope, for you, and Maxime.
I have gained up to 35 pounds at one point a few years ago after being on Zyprexa and Depakote. So I can empathize and relate to what you two are experiencing to a degree.
Like I said, hang in there and try not to give up hope!
Morgan
Posted by Maxime on August 3, 2010, at 5:24:37
In reply to Re: Weight loss meds, posted by emmanuel98 on August 3, 2010, at 3:57:31
Weighed myself this morning and I have gained 2 more pounds. That is 5 total and I still have to make it until Friday. :( I don't know I manage to gain weight when I eat less than 500 pounds a day. :( This is not helping my suicidal thoughts.
Posted by Maxime on August 3, 2010, at 5:28:26
In reply to Re: Weight loss meds, posted by Maxime on August 3, 2010, at 5:24:37
Forgot to say that if my pdoc insists I stay on Lithium I will start taking some Ephedra. It has worked in the past, so it should work again. Actually even if I don't have to stay on the Lithium I will hunt down some Ephedra. I know that I shouldn't take it with the Parnate, but I have in the past and I suffered no ill effects.
I really wish that I could purge. It would solve my problems. But I am unable to purge. Lord knows I have tried.
Posted by Maxime on August 3, 2010, at 10:12:57
In reply to Re: Weight loss meds, posted by emmanuel98 on August 3, 2010, at 3:57:31
I know your message was for Morgan, but I just wanted to say that I have gained so much weight from meds. I gained 40 pounds from Seroquel. They were slowly coming off me and then I had the Lithium which added a good 20-30 pounds. And it seems like every time I gain weight, I go about 15 pounds over my highest weight ever. So I kept on having a different highest weight number. :(
It bad enough to have BP type 2, but adding weight gain on it is just insult to injury.
Posted by Maxime on August 3, 2010, at 10:15:19
In reply to Re: Weight loss meds, posted by emmanuel98 on August 3, 2010, at 3:57:31
Emmanuel, how did the Metformin work? Did it help at all?
Posted by morgan miller on August 3, 2010, at 12:07:22
In reply to Re: Weight loss meds, posted by Maxime on August 3, 2010, at 5:28:26
> Forgot to say that if my pdoc insists I stay on Lithium I will start taking some Ephedra. It has worked in the past, so it should work again. Actually even if I don't have to stay on the Lithium I will hunt down some Ephedra. I know that I shouldn't take it with the Parnate, but I have in the past and I suffered no ill effects.
>
> I really wish that I could purge. It would solve my problems. But I am unable to purge. Lord knows I have tried.If you take ephedra, take a good all natural ma huang.
I guess you still don't believe that eating more, getting more calories, eating several meals a day, and eating the right foods could help not just medications work better but with weight loss as well.
I'm really sorry you are feeling so bad. I do hope you find some help very soon.
Posted by Maxime on August 3, 2010, at 17:35:35
In reply to Re: Weight loss meds, posted by morgan miller on August 3, 2010, at 12:07:22
> > Forgot to say that if my pdoc insists I stay on Lithium I will start taking some Ephedra. It > If you take ephedra, take a good all natural ma huang.
>
> I guess you still don't believe that eating more, getting more calories, eating several meals a day, and eating the right foods could help not just medications work better but with weight loss as well.
>I do believe you about eating more etc. But there is a constant voice in my head that tells me that I am worthless and that I don't deserve food. It's really hard.
> I'm really sorry you are feeling so bad. I do hope you find some help very soon.
Posted by morgan miller on August 3, 2010, at 18:01:25
In reply to Re: Weight loss meds, posted by Maxime on August 3, 2010, at 17:35:35
I understand..Man that really really sucks. I do hope you get someone to help you soon. I believe there are counseling services out there that are free. I really think the best thing for you right now is too seek out some free counseling, maybe offered by the state or county. I have a friend that did this for a while.
Here is a supplement that has been praised by some people over at Mind and Muscle for it's ability to assist in weight loss without any changes in diet. Not sure if you can afford it right now, but if you can, it may help.
At this point you might as well get your hands on some mu huang. Like I said, I would get pure mu huang and not ephedrine. Maybe you planned on this already. Mu huang/Ephedra may actually give you more energy and boost your mood.
Maybe to could do Mu huang and LeanXtreme. I think both would be perfectly safe for a while at least until you get better and start liking and hopefully loving yourself.
Posted by Maxime on August 3, 2010, at 18:37:20
In reply to Re: Weight loss meds, posted by Maxime on August 3, 2010, at 17:35:35
OMG, I am really retaining water. I can't see my ankles anymore, and my hands look like belong to Shrek (well, they aren't green). I've been trying to drink as much water as possible because I know that it is what to do while on Lithium.
I am so uncomfortable. I am having trouble bending my legs.
I don't need this sh*t.
Posted by morgan miller on August 3, 2010, at 19:12:41
In reply to Can you say WATER RETENTION?, posted by Maxime on August 3, 2010, at 18:37:20
That really sucks lithium is having this effect on you. I'm sure you will be off lithium in a week unless a miracle happen. Doubt it will.
Posted by emmanuel98 on August 3, 2010, at 19:18:28
In reply to Re: Weight loss meds » emmanuel98, posted by morgan miller on August 3, 2010, at 4:58:28
I take perphenazine, 12mg, parnate, 40mg and lamictal 200mg. I also take 2mg lorazapem for parnate insomnia. None of these cause weight gain. I have been dieting and exercising like crazy, since I have the summer off, and have lost 14 pounds.
> What are all the meds you are on now? Parnate and what else? Sorry I'm just curious.
>
Posted by emmanuel98 on August 3, 2010, at 19:21:20
In reply to Re: Weight loss meds » emmanuel98, posted by Maxime on August 3, 2010, at 10:15:19
Metformin didn't help me but it does help some people. OTOH, not everyone is as sensitive to the metabolic effects of these drugs. I would avoid ephedra. It causes heart problems. Try to get off all weight-gaining drugs and exercise like crazy. That's what I'm trying to do.
Posted by emmanuel98 on August 3, 2010, at 19:23:35
In reply to Can you say WATER RETENTION?, posted by Maxime on August 3, 2010, at 18:37:20
Remember that water retention doesn't cause permanent weight gain. You can take a diuretic and get rid of the water.
Posted by morgan miller on August 3, 2010, at 19:30:40
In reply to Re: Weight loss meds, posted by emmanuel98 on August 3, 2010, at 19:18:28
> I take perphenazine, 12mg, parnate, 40mg and lamictal 200mg. I also take 2mg lorazapem for parnate insomnia. None of these cause weight gain. I have been dieting and exercising like crazy, since I have the summer off, and have lost 14 pounds.
>
> > What are all the meds you are on now? Parnate and what else? Sorry I'm just curious.
> >
>
That's great, hope you continue progress towards healthy weight.
Posted by morgan miller on August 3, 2010, at 19:36:09
In reply to Re: Weight loss meds, posted by emmanuel98 on August 3, 2010, at 19:21:20
> Metformin didn't help me but it does help some people. OTOH, not everyone is as sensitive to the metabolic effects of these drugs. I would avoid ephedra. It causes heart problems. Try to get off all weight-gaining drugs and exercise like crazy. That's what I'm trying to do.
I don't think a little ephedra will hurt in the short run. I've actually read reports of it improving mood, so it may assist with more than just weight loss. Yes, you do need to air on the side of caution when taking Ephedra/Mu huang. In the past I would said the same thing you did. But, after doing some research, I found that Ma Huang can be very safe, helpful and effective for several ailments if used responsibly.
I agree that getting off all drugs that can cause weight gain and when feeling better, eating right and exercising properly should help with weight loss and will eventually improve mental health.
Posted by Phillipa on August 3, 2010, at 20:23:48
In reply to Can you say WATER RETENTION?, posted by Maxime on August 3, 2010, at 18:37:20
Maxie vitamin B6 can help with water retention. But if you're swelling this badly you seriously need to call the doc. Something isn't right? Phillipa
Posted by Maxime on August 4, 2010, at 17:42:48
In reply to Re: Can you say WATER RETENTION? » Maxime, posted by Phillipa on August 3, 2010, at 20:23:48
Thanks Phillipa
I took some B6 with some other B vitamins (since they all work together) and I noticed a difference. My feet and hands are still swollen though.
I emailed my pdoc to let him know and he thinks we should reduce the Lithium to 150 mg from 300 mg. I responded by saying that I would really like to take Adderall. We shall see.
Posted by Phillipa on August 4, 2010, at 21:35:58
In reply to Re: Can you say WATER RETENTION? » Phillipa, posted by Maxime on August 4, 2010, at 17:42:48
Well that's a start the B6 was an ob-gyn that recommended it for PMS when it was an issue. Still take 50mg a day for years now. Phillipa
Posted by Maxime on August 4, 2010, at 22:08:00
In reply to Weight loss meds, posted by Maxime on July 31, 2010, at 19:53:13
I got an email from my psychiatrist and he is determined to keep on the f*ck*ng Lithium. I look like the Pillsbury Dough girl!
What are some meds that can be prescribed for water retention? I know that the B6 can help, but I would prefer to take something by prescription.
Thanks everyone.
Posted by ed_uk2010 on August 5, 2010, at 17:26:33
In reply to Meds for water retention?, posted by Maxime on August 4, 2010, at 22:08:00
>What are some meds that can be prescribed for water retention? I know that the B6 can help, but I would prefer to take something by prescription.
Hi Maxie,
You cannot use diuretics in this sitation. They could raise your lithium to a toxic level. Hopefully, the fluid retention will quickly disappear once you're on a lower dose of lithium.
xx
Posted by Maxime on August 5, 2010, at 18:50:24
In reply to Re: Meds for water retention?, posted by ed_uk2010 on August 5, 2010, at 17:26:33
> >What are some meds that can be prescribed for water retention? I know that the B6 can help, but I would prefer to take something by prescription.
>
> Hi Maxie,
>
> You cannot use diuretics in this sitation. They could raise your lithium to a toxic level. Hopefully, the fluid retention will quickly disappear once you're on a lower dose of lithium.
>
> xx
>Sh*t! I didn't know that! I even told my pdoc that I am using B6 and he was okay with it. I see him tomorrow and will mention it.
I am really glad that you are around on PB. *hugs*
Posted by Hombre on August 5, 2010, at 20:42:53
In reply to Weight loss meds, posted by Maxime on July 31, 2010, at 19:53:13
Maxine,
Please don't use ephedra/ma huang for weight loss. It is never indicated for this purpose and could cause further imbalance when used in isolation. Even as a cold remedy, it is only indicated for certain conditions and is always balanced with other herbs.
I've taken lithium and experienced weight gain and water retention. I even had the gross symptom of getting pimples on my arms! Ick. I currently take seroquel and have to constantly battle the metabolism-slowing side-effects of this drug. I do that with herbal formulas that strengthen the body and allow it to function properly. When given the proper conditions to function, the body knows how to take care of itself for the most part.
Edema and improper digestion probably indicate a Spleen (according to Chinese medicine) deficiency. Other symptoms of Spleen deficiency include headache, a bloated abdomen, gas, muscle weakness/poor muscle tone, diarrhea, or constipation alternating with diarrhea, fatigue, poor appetite, anorexia, overthinking, poor memory and excessive worrying. It may seem strange to think that thinking and memory are associated with digestion, but at a very basic level there is no way one's brain is going to function optimally when the body is not properly extracting and transforming nutrients into fuel the body can use. Metaphorically, learning is process of taking in information (eating) and processing it (digesting).
The most common causes for Spleen deficiency include under/overeating, overconsumption of cold, iced food and drinks, too many raw fruits and vegetables (it takes a lot of energy to break down the cellulose and heat up the stomach contents to a temperature where the digestive chemical reactions can occur), overexertion and excessive worrying. I've personally experienced a vicious cycle where I was starving myself (as a jolly, somewhat plump American I moved to a country where everyone was much thinner and ate much less). As my body weakened I had less and less appetite. I didn't want to bother eating. I could barely exercise and although I lost some weight I had a bloated belly and stubborn fat that came from seemingly nowhere.
Spleen tonifying herbs improve digestion and metabolism (proper handling of blood sugar, insulin and digestive enzymes may actually lead to weight loss) and help drain excess fluid.
The most basic formula for tonifying the Spleen system is called The Four Gentlemen (Si Jun Zi Wan). It is available as a patent formula in pill form. It contains four herbs to drain excessive dampness (edema) and strengthen digestion. Overall energy increases when digestion is optimized.
But if only it were as simple as "take formula X" for all Spleen problems. In one sense, a relatively simple formula like Four Gentlemen will probably help most cases of Spleen deficiency to an extent, but the number of variations on the formula or formulas that contain Four Gentlemen points to the individualized nature of taking herbs. Herbal formulas usually have a few herbs to treat the main problems, herbs to augment the main herbs, herbs to buffer the main herbs to prevent side effects, and herbs to harmonize the formula and even make it taste a little better. A true herbalist is a master chef that prepares the formula that you need. Just as you wouldn't eat just spinach as a meal, herbal prescriptions rarely contain just one herb.
Alas, where to find these people. Word of mouth is usually good. Massage therapists, martial artists, and other alternative health practitioners will usually know of someone that really knows their stuff. She may or may not be Chinese; what matters is that she listens to you and has the sensitivity to coax your body back to health.
If it isn't possible to find/afford a professional herbalist, you might proceed cautiously with patent formulas such as Four Gentlemen to coax your body back to a healthier balance.
Take care,
Hombre
Posted by Maxime on August 5, 2010, at 22:08:10
In reply to Re: Weight loss meds » Maxime, posted by Hombre on August 5, 2010, at 20:42:53
Hombre, thank you for sharing your experiences.
I think at this point I am going to stop the Lithium even if my pdoc wants me to continue with it.
I will look into the spleen thing.
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