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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by bleauberry on August 1, 2010, at 13:41:27
In reply to Please Help, not doing well at all, posted by Maxime on July 29, 2010, at 15:10:14
Maxine I wish I had something supportive to say. I tend to side with your feelings of questioning the whole thing.
I think of the doctor, what's his name, I'm so bad with names, at psycotropical.com. Goldberg? He stopped using lithium a long time ago, after giving it a good go for many years, because he just saw such little benefit with it and too many problems from it. I look back on posts here over many years and it's hard to find anyone calling lithium their miracle. I mean, I'm sure it happens, but probably not nearly as much as doctors or literature would suggest.
i personally think lithium is best at doses usually not prescribed...ultralow...75mg to 300mg, maybe 600mg max. People say those doses are useless. I totally disagree. Those doses I found much more stimulating and antidepressant. Higher doses are dulling and depressing. Ultra low doses for depression, normal doses for manic spectrums. IMO.
Who knows. I guess we only know after we try. And of course, mileage varies.
At this point, if I were in your shoes, I would be looking at pure logic, which is....
High dose parnate not doing the job....why keep it?
No good reason.
Nortriptyline not helping parnate....why keep it?
No good reason.
Where to go from here?
That's where all my focus is. Not on trying to breath life into a worthless cocktail. (extremely worthy in theory, but obviously not in this reality)Sometimes when I am critical of someone's meds, all of a sudden the next day they feel a ton better, the med kicks in, and everything I said was wrong. So I hope that happens! :-)
Posted by Maxime on August 1, 2010, at 21:25:13
In reply to Re: Please Help, not doing well at all » Maxime, posted by morgan miller on August 1, 2010, at 1:11:20
Thanks Morgan.
Parnate is my last resort drug ... next stop ECT.
I am on 300 mg of Lithium so maybe is will help at that dosage. I hope so because last time I was on Lithium (in March) I went up to 600 mg and I really had a lot of side effects (nausea, cognitive problems etc)
Thank you for your encouragement.
Posted by Maxime on August 1, 2010, at 22:23:53
In reply to Please Help, not doing well at all, posted by Maxime on July 29, 2010, at 15:10:14
God, I wish I would I would die in my sleep. It would be best for everyone involved.
I don't know what to do. Should I call the Crisis Centre? Should I just go to the ER? Should I call my psychiatrist in the morning? What do I do?
I took an extra sleeping pill tonight so that I would be less of a danger to myself because I will sleep longer.
I am really all alone in this.
Posted by Phillipa on August 1, 2010, at 23:51:16
In reply to Really, reallly not well :(, posted by Maxime on August 1, 2010, at 22:23:53
Maxie are you asleep? If not crisis center. Phillipa
Posted by SLS on August 2, 2010, at 4:38:42
In reply to Please Help, not doing well at all, posted by Maxime on July 29, 2010, at 15:10:14
I would look to increase the dosage of nortriptyline. You can get a blood test first to determine therapeutic levels. If you are a rapid metabolizer of nortriptyline, you might need as much as 150mg per day.
I apologize if this post is redundant. I don't have the mental energy to read the entire thread.
- Scott
Posted by Maxime on August 2, 2010, at 14:50:54
In reply to Re: Please Help, not doing well at all » Maxime, posted by SLS on August 2, 2010, at 4:38:42
Thank you Scott. I will ask that as a posibility when I see my doctor this Friday.
Take care.
Posted by bleauberry on August 2, 2010, at 19:51:51
In reply to Please Help, not doing well at all, posted by Maxime on July 29, 2010, at 15:10:14
A couple things to keep in mind:
1. Parnate or Adderall make some people more depressed than they were to start with. Sometimes dramatically worse.
2. Nortriptyline and other TCAs make some people very depressed.
It could be the meds themselves helping to make you feel so bad? I see that as a real possibility. The problem is that when we are on the meds, we can't tell and it is the last thing we would suspect. I could pull up hundreds of posts of people who felt better when they started to wean down on their meds, not go up higher on them.
Just for thought.
I think you need to call the doctor right away. Say screw the lithium for now, things are too bad....we gotta make some serious changes here....this is a bad road that is not showing any signs of getting better, only worse.
Posted by Maxime on August 2, 2010, at 20:27:43
In reply to Re: Please Help, not doing well at all, posted by bleauberry on August 2, 2010, at 19:51:51
I've been on the Parnate and Nortrip. since October. Even though I feel like sh*t, I think I would actually feel worse if I stopped taking these meds. Sometimes I feel like I have hit rock bottom, only to find out that it wasn't really rock bottom. It's awful.
Adderall XR helped me before and it did not make me depressed. If this Lithium doesn't help me this week, I will ask for Adderall. I wanted to ask for it last week, but I also wanted to respect his choice of meds for me and I promised to try it for one week (the Lithium).
To be honest, I don't think that anything will help me. I am broken beyond repair. I really am.
Posted by Maxime on August 2, 2010, at 20:29:46
In reply to Re: Really, reallly not well :( » Maxime, posted by Phillipa on August 1, 2010, at 23:51:16
I slept and stayed in bed until 3 pm. It was a good escape from the mental pain.
I will see how things go between now and Thursday. If I am doing the same or worse I will phone the Crisis Centre and see if I can stay there.
Posted by Phillipa on August 2, 2010, at 20:49:13
In reply to Re: Really, reallly not well :( » Phillipa, posted by Maxime on August 2, 2010, at 20:29:46
Maxie good decision for now!!!! Check in frequently okay? Phillipa
Posted by Maxime on August 2, 2010, at 21:37:12
In reply to Re: Really, reallly not well :( » Phillipa, posted by Maxime on August 2, 2010, at 20:29:46
So, so tired of this sh*t. Exactly how much do I have to endure? I have really had enough. I hope I feel a little better tomorrow.
Posted by Phillipa on August 2, 2010, at 21:48:13
In reply to Re: Really, reallly not well :(, posted by Maxime on August 2, 2010, at 21:37:12
Me too and I hear a bit of hope there. Phillipa
Posted by Maxime on August 2, 2010, at 22:17:46
In reply to Re: Really, reallly not well :( » Maxime, posted by Phillipa on August 2, 2010, at 21:48:13
> Me too and I hear a bit of hope there. Phillipa
Yes there is some sick hope ... I hope I don't do anything tonight and have my mother find me dead in my bed tomorrow morning. So the hope is for my mum.
Posted by morgan miller on August 3, 2010, at 2:54:36
In reply to Re: Please Help, not doing well at all » Maxime, posted by SLS on August 2, 2010, at 4:38:42
> I would look to increase the dosage of nortriptyline. You can get a blood test first to determine therapeutic levels. If you are a rapid metabolizer of nortriptyline, you might need as much as 150mg per day.
>
> I apologize if this post is redundant. I don't have the mental energy to read the entire thread.
>
>
> - ScottI agree. Start raising the Nortriptyline and see what happens before you decide to go to a low dose or wean off it completely.
I think it's a good idea to drop the Lithium in a week if you're not feeling any better.
Good luck. I know you are in a hellish state right now. I've been there. I didn't have the eating issues but I have experienced everything else, it's awful.
Please try your best to hang it there. I do think you might want to consider finding a way to get some free counseling services until you get to see the eating disorder specialist.
Posted by Maxime on August 3, 2010, at 16:05:50
In reply to Re: Really, reallly not well :(, posted by Maxime on August 2, 2010, at 22:17:46
Still feeling craptastic. At least I got out of bed before 3 pm today. I had a shower and that is about all I accomplished today. :(
Posted by bleauberry on August 3, 2010, at 18:25:45
In reply to Re: Please Help, not doing well at all » bleauberry, posted by Maxime on August 2, 2010, at 20:27:43
I know you feel broken beyond repair and I feel so much for you. I feel the same way most of the time. But it isn't true. It is the evil side trying to take our attention away from what really matters. But that's another story.
The problem is, the drug choices have probably been too confined. They are only antidepressants, antipsychotics, stimulants, and such. There are things that cause deep depression that none of those will touch because they are so off target.
How did my doctor become a Lyme expert? Because he noticed over time that many of his chronic depression patients got better when they took an antibiotic for some unrelated reason. Their fibromalgia got better the same way. Chronic fatigue cleared up. Even MS and brain lesions miraculously cleared up. By accidental discovery.
I am not at all saying you or anyone else has Lyme. Though it is certainly possible. What I am saying is, would any of those above diseased patients have gotten as well as they did had they not ventured outside of the normal treatment choices. No. A big fat no. By pure accident they did get outsdie of those normal treatment options. In your case, it doesn't need to be an accident. There are things you can do on purpose to see what happens. You and all of us have no problem at all in guessing blindly at one potent psychiatric drug after another, but we seem bewildered at the idea of trying any other treatment the same way. I don't get that. Backward logic.
My down to earth logic says that if a ton of psychiatric meds are not helping a lot, then the problem is coming from somewhere else that those drugs are not touching. In the lyme example, not a single psychiatric prescription is going to do a thing to suppress or kill those bacteria.
Like I said, it's another story, but my point is....it is time to broaden the horizons. The psychiatric toolbox is too limited in scope to treat all depressions.
> I've been on the Parnate and Nortrip. since October. Even though I feel like sh*t, I think I would actually feel worse if I stopped taking these meds. Sometimes I feel like I have hit rock bottom, only to find out that it wasn't really rock bottom. It's awful.
>
> Adderall XR helped me before and it did not make me depressed. If this Lithium doesn't help me this week, I will ask for Adderall. I wanted to ask for it last week, but I also wanted to respect his choice of meds for me and I promised to try it for one week (the Lithium).
>
> To be honest, I don't think that anything will help me. I am broken beyond repair. I really am.
Posted by Maxime on August 3, 2010, at 22:53:36
In reply to Re: Please Help, not doing well at all, posted by bleauberry on August 3, 2010, at 18:25:45
Thank you for your thoughtful reply to me. I guess the reason that I think I am bipolar type 2 is because I was depressed as a child and teenager. The doctor told my parents that and they didn't believe them. Then in my 20s the depressions would get worse with hypomania thrown in for good fun. It was only in my mid-twenties that I started to take psych meds.
I can't help but think that if my parents had put me into therapy at a young age that my depression wouldn't be so bad and I probably wouldn't have an eating disorder.
But I need to live in present and not the past. All I know is that right now, I am one messed up person.
Posted by Maxime on August 4, 2010, at 23:08:58
In reply to Re: Really, reallly not well :(, posted by Maxime on August 3, 2010, at 16:05:50
Still feeling very unwell. I wish I was seeing my pdoc tomorrow instead of Friday.
I don't know how I am going to get out of this depression. I don't know what to do. I should probably be in the hospital but I at least want to see my pdoc.
Off to hibernate in my bed.
Posted by morgan miller on August 4, 2010, at 23:34:00
In reply to Re: Really, reallly not well :(, posted by Maxime on August 4, 2010, at 23:08:58
Hang in there, you WILL get better.
Posted by guitargrl on August 5, 2010, at 4:06:07
In reply to Re: Really, reallly not well :(, posted by morgan miller on August 4, 2010, at 23:34:00
So sorry to hear how things have been going. I hope your appointment on Friday helps. I agree with others you certainly need some respite from caring for your mom. I have worked in mental health and have learned that social workers can be great sources of help, as well as many nursing homes who could get you some references. I hear how frustrating the medications are - manic depression is often not diagnosed early by family members, since society in general is often blind to its existence. But please know so many people are wishing you the best. Meds are definitely needed, but other people can really understand. Best of luck.
Posted by bleauberry on August 5, 2010, at 16:45:25
In reply to Re: Really, reallly not well :(, posted by guitargrl on August 5, 2010, at 4:06:07
Guitargrl? That's a cool name. I know someone else who uses a web name of guitarchick.
I assume you play guitar? Acoustic? Electric? What type of music?
Sorry to interrupt in this thread. Was just curious.
Posted by Maxime on August 5, 2010, at 22:10:42
In reply to Re: Really, reallly not well :(, posted by morgan miller on August 4, 2010, at 23:34:00
I see my pdoc tomorrow. When I get home from the appt. I am going to call the Crisis Centre and see if I can stay there for a few days. I don't feel safe at all right now. I am really suicidal and the answer is stuck in one of my drawers. It's really hard for me to resist it.
Thanks for you all your help everyone.
Posted by Maxime on August 6, 2010, at 18:15:57
In reply to Re: Really, reallly not well :( » morgan miller, posted by Maxime on August 5, 2010, at 22:10:42
I still feel very suicidal. It's exhausting me. I had errands to run today so I wasn't able to contact the Crisis Centre in time to stay there. Now I will have to wait until Monday. I can still call them, they just don't take in any new people on the weekend.
I am not looking forward to the next two days. :(
Posted by Deneb on August 7, 2010, at 0:39:45
In reply to Re: Really, reallly not well :( » morgan miller, posted by Maxime on August 5, 2010, at 22:10:42
Maxime, why don't you just flush the hoarded meds down the toilet or something?
Posted by Maxime on August 7, 2010, at 14:24:49
In reply to Re: Really, reallly not well :( » Maxime, posted by Deneb on August 7, 2010, at 0:39:45
> Maxime, why don't you just flush the hoarded meds down the toilet or something?
I know this is going to sound strange, but I find it comforting to know that those meds are there. If I need to, I can action. I bought the meds off the internet last year. If I get rid of them I will just find another way. There is a busy train track just at the top of the street where I live.
I think having the meds have prevented suicide. Whenever I have a bad week or day etc. I tell myself ok, just one more day then you can end it. This will go on for weeks until finally I don't feel as bad anymore. I don't have to be impulsive and find something quick to do it. I take as long as it takes to make my decision. My doctor knows that I have the stash. He has tried to get it from me but I won't.
Thanks for caring Deneb.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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