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Posted by bleauberry on July 30, 2010, at 18:46:51
In reply to Please Help, not doing well at all, posted by Maxime on July 29, 2010, at 15:10:14
I am so sorry you feel so bad. If it helps, so do I !
Gosh, ya know, if that cocktail isn't working, especially at that high parnate dose, I dunno, it kind of tells me the whole cocktail is off base. Earlier in this thread there was mention of ritalin and zyprexa. I agree with both of those. That said, you obviously do not have a deficiency of neurotransmitters. 100mg parnate would more than fix that. It is something else. Keep telling yourself, it is something else, and keep asking, what is it? If it isn't dopamine, serotonin, norepinephrine, what is it? I guess I am saying that through all the badness here, there is one small good side....the meds are giving you some rather loud clues.
I could suggest several places to start looking for the severe depression cause, but that's another story. The meds may actually be contributing more than helping. Actually, if you are indeed feeling suicidal, then there is no doubt about it. They are either completely doing nothing good or they are doing bad. Either way, loud clues.
Lithium has worked miracles before, so even though you are disappointed with the choice, ya never know.
Back to where I started....I like the earlier suggestions of ritalin and zyprexa. As for any weight gain on any med, screw that. This aint no time to be concerned about weight.
Posted by TriedEveryMedication on July 30, 2010, at 19:02:16
In reply to Please Help, not doing well at all, posted by Maxime on July 29, 2010, at 15:10:14
TCAs can make me viciously depressed... at best when on them it feels like my outlook on everything is bleak.
I just noticed this: nortriptyline can increase suicidal ideation (at least in men).
Posted by Phillipa on July 30, 2010, at 20:31:24
In reply to Re: Please Help, not doing well at all » Phillipa, posted by Maxime on July 29, 2010, at 22:25:24
What a shame. I guess the lithium for now. I know your fears of weight gain and you must eat. Phillipa
Posted by morgan miller on July 30, 2010, at 22:06:56
In reply to Re: Please Help, not doing well at all, posted by bleauberry on July 30, 2010, at 18:46:51
>Lithium has worked miracles before, so even though you are disappointed with the choice, ya never know.
I was thinking of Lithium also. Supposed to be great for suidical ideation(why are these 2 words red squiggly underlined as if they are mispelled, weird).
Or maybe a new antidepressant is in order, Parnate doesn't seem to be doing the trick anymore.
Posted by Maxime on July 31, 2010, at 19:48:51
In reply to Re: Please Help, not doing well at all, posted by morgan miller on July 30, 2010, at 22:06:56
Feeling really nauseated with the Lithium on board. WHY WHY WHY does the doctor think this medication will help me? I feel like he is torturing me.
I couldn't get out of bed today. I just stayed all day until 6:30 pm this evening. I really want to go back to bed to. I wonder if I will be able to sleep tonight? I hope so.
Stupid Lithium.
Posted by morgan miller on August 1, 2010, at 1:11:20
In reply to Re: Please Help, not doing well at all, posted by Maxime on July 31, 2010, at 19:48:51
How long have you been on Lithium? I would give it some time. Your doc gave it to you because you were feeling suicidal and Lithium is one of the first line of treatments for such a state.
Lithium may not be what you need, but try to be patient with it. Also keep in mind that you may not need Lithium a high doses that show up as "therapeutic" levels in your blood. You may get therapeutic benefit from just 300 mg. How much are you taking now?
Maybe you just need a different AD or a different combination of ADs. I've learned here that Zoloft + Nortriptyline is a good combo. Maybe you have tried this. If you are taking Parnate, I imagine you've tried quite a bit of different ADs and combinations of drugs since Parnate is usually used as a last resort by many doctors.
Sorry you are feeling so bad. I hope you start feeling better soon.
Morgan
Posted by morgan miller on August 1, 2010, at 1:13:27
In reply to Re: Please Help, not doing well at all, posted by Maxime on July 31, 2010, at 19:48:51
Ahh, just saw you are already taking Nortriptyline. Maybe increase the dose? Aren't some people taking 150 mg?
Have you been on Zoloft before, bet you have. Hmm.
Again, hope you start to feel better soon.
Morgan
Posted by bleauberry on August 1, 2010, at 13:41:27
In reply to Please Help, not doing well at all, posted by Maxime on July 29, 2010, at 15:10:14
Maxine I wish I had something supportive to say. I tend to side with your feelings of questioning the whole thing.
I think of the doctor, what's his name, I'm so bad with names, at psycotropical.com. Goldberg? He stopped using lithium a long time ago, after giving it a good go for many years, because he just saw such little benefit with it and too many problems from it. I look back on posts here over many years and it's hard to find anyone calling lithium their miracle. I mean, I'm sure it happens, but probably not nearly as much as doctors or literature would suggest.
i personally think lithium is best at doses usually not prescribed...ultralow...75mg to 300mg, maybe 600mg max. People say those doses are useless. I totally disagree. Those doses I found much more stimulating and antidepressant. Higher doses are dulling and depressing. Ultra low doses for depression, normal doses for manic spectrums. IMO.
Who knows. I guess we only know after we try. And of course, mileage varies.
At this point, if I were in your shoes, I would be looking at pure logic, which is....
High dose parnate not doing the job....why keep it?
No good reason.
Nortriptyline not helping parnate....why keep it?
No good reason.
Where to go from here?
That's where all my focus is. Not on trying to breath life into a worthless cocktail. (extremely worthy in theory, but obviously not in this reality)Sometimes when I am critical of someone's meds, all of a sudden the next day they feel a ton better, the med kicks in, and everything I said was wrong. So I hope that happens! :-)
Posted by Maxime on August 1, 2010, at 21:25:13
In reply to Re: Please Help, not doing well at all » Maxime, posted by morgan miller on August 1, 2010, at 1:11:20
Thanks Morgan.
Parnate is my last resort drug ... next stop ECT.
I am on 300 mg of Lithium so maybe is will help at that dosage. I hope so because last time I was on Lithium (in March) I went up to 600 mg and I really had a lot of side effects (nausea, cognitive problems etc)
Thank you for your encouragement.
Posted by Maxime on August 1, 2010, at 22:23:53
In reply to Please Help, not doing well at all, posted by Maxime on July 29, 2010, at 15:10:14
God, I wish I would I would die in my sleep. It would be best for everyone involved.
I don't know what to do. Should I call the Crisis Centre? Should I just go to the ER? Should I call my psychiatrist in the morning? What do I do?
I took an extra sleeping pill tonight so that I would be less of a danger to myself because I will sleep longer.
I am really all alone in this.
Posted by Phillipa on August 1, 2010, at 23:51:16
In reply to Really, reallly not well :(, posted by Maxime on August 1, 2010, at 22:23:53
Maxie are you asleep? If not crisis center. Phillipa
Posted by SLS on August 2, 2010, at 4:38:42
In reply to Please Help, not doing well at all, posted by Maxime on July 29, 2010, at 15:10:14
I would look to increase the dosage of nortriptyline. You can get a blood test first to determine therapeutic levels. If you are a rapid metabolizer of nortriptyline, you might need as much as 150mg per day.
I apologize if this post is redundant. I don't have the mental energy to read the entire thread.
- Scott
Posted by Maxime on August 2, 2010, at 14:50:54
In reply to Re: Please Help, not doing well at all » Maxime, posted by SLS on August 2, 2010, at 4:38:42
Thank you Scott. I will ask that as a posibility when I see my doctor this Friday.
Take care.
Posted by bleauberry on August 2, 2010, at 19:51:51
In reply to Please Help, not doing well at all, posted by Maxime on July 29, 2010, at 15:10:14
A couple things to keep in mind:
1. Parnate or Adderall make some people more depressed than they were to start with. Sometimes dramatically worse.
2. Nortriptyline and other TCAs make some people very depressed.
It could be the meds themselves helping to make you feel so bad? I see that as a real possibility. The problem is that when we are on the meds, we can't tell and it is the last thing we would suspect. I could pull up hundreds of posts of people who felt better when they started to wean down on their meds, not go up higher on them.
Just for thought.
I think you need to call the doctor right away. Say screw the lithium for now, things are too bad....we gotta make some serious changes here....this is a bad road that is not showing any signs of getting better, only worse.
Posted by Maxime on August 2, 2010, at 20:27:43
In reply to Re: Please Help, not doing well at all, posted by bleauberry on August 2, 2010, at 19:51:51
I've been on the Parnate and Nortrip. since October. Even though I feel like sh*t, I think I would actually feel worse if I stopped taking these meds. Sometimes I feel like I have hit rock bottom, only to find out that it wasn't really rock bottom. It's awful.
Adderall XR helped me before and it did not make me depressed. If this Lithium doesn't help me this week, I will ask for Adderall. I wanted to ask for it last week, but I also wanted to respect his choice of meds for me and I promised to try it for one week (the Lithium).
To be honest, I don't think that anything will help me. I am broken beyond repair. I really am.
Posted by Maxime on August 2, 2010, at 20:29:46
In reply to Re: Really, reallly not well :( » Maxime, posted by Phillipa on August 1, 2010, at 23:51:16
I slept and stayed in bed until 3 pm. It was a good escape from the mental pain.
I will see how things go between now and Thursday. If I am doing the same or worse I will phone the Crisis Centre and see if I can stay there.
Posted by Phillipa on August 2, 2010, at 20:49:13
In reply to Re: Really, reallly not well :( » Phillipa, posted by Maxime on August 2, 2010, at 20:29:46
Maxie good decision for now!!!! Check in frequently okay? Phillipa
Posted by Maxime on August 2, 2010, at 21:37:12
In reply to Re: Really, reallly not well :( » Phillipa, posted by Maxime on August 2, 2010, at 20:29:46
So, so tired of this sh*t. Exactly how much do I have to endure? I have really had enough. I hope I feel a little better tomorrow.
Posted by Phillipa on August 2, 2010, at 21:48:13
In reply to Re: Really, reallly not well :(, posted by Maxime on August 2, 2010, at 21:37:12
Me too and I hear a bit of hope there. Phillipa
Posted by Maxime on August 2, 2010, at 22:17:46
In reply to Re: Really, reallly not well :( » Maxime, posted by Phillipa on August 2, 2010, at 21:48:13
> Me too and I hear a bit of hope there. Phillipa
Yes there is some sick hope ... I hope I don't do anything tonight and have my mother find me dead in my bed tomorrow morning. So the hope is for my mum.
Posted by morgan miller on August 3, 2010, at 2:54:36
In reply to Re: Please Help, not doing well at all » Maxime, posted by SLS on August 2, 2010, at 4:38:42
> I would look to increase the dosage of nortriptyline. You can get a blood test first to determine therapeutic levels. If you are a rapid metabolizer of nortriptyline, you might need as much as 150mg per day.
>
> I apologize if this post is redundant. I don't have the mental energy to read the entire thread.
>
>
> - ScottI agree. Start raising the Nortriptyline and see what happens before you decide to go to a low dose or wean off it completely.
I think it's a good idea to drop the Lithium in a week if you're not feeling any better.
Good luck. I know you are in a hellish state right now. I've been there. I didn't have the eating issues but I have experienced everything else, it's awful.
Please try your best to hang it there. I do think you might want to consider finding a way to get some free counseling services until you get to see the eating disorder specialist.
Posted by Maxime on August 3, 2010, at 16:05:50
In reply to Re: Really, reallly not well :(, posted by Maxime on August 2, 2010, at 22:17:46
Still feeling craptastic. At least I got out of bed before 3 pm today. I had a shower and that is about all I accomplished today. :(
Posted by bleauberry on August 3, 2010, at 18:25:45
In reply to Re: Please Help, not doing well at all » bleauberry, posted by Maxime on August 2, 2010, at 20:27:43
I know you feel broken beyond repair and I feel so much for you. I feel the same way most of the time. But it isn't true. It is the evil side trying to take our attention away from what really matters. But that's another story.
The problem is, the drug choices have probably been too confined. They are only antidepressants, antipsychotics, stimulants, and such. There are things that cause deep depression that none of those will touch because they are so off target.
How did my doctor become a Lyme expert? Because he noticed over time that many of his chronic depression patients got better when they took an antibiotic for some unrelated reason. Their fibromalgia got better the same way. Chronic fatigue cleared up. Even MS and brain lesions miraculously cleared up. By accidental discovery.
I am not at all saying you or anyone else has Lyme. Though it is certainly possible. What I am saying is, would any of those above diseased patients have gotten as well as they did had they not ventured outside of the normal treatment choices. No. A big fat no. By pure accident they did get outsdie of those normal treatment options. In your case, it doesn't need to be an accident. There are things you can do on purpose to see what happens. You and all of us have no problem at all in guessing blindly at one potent psychiatric drug after another, but we seem bewildered at the idea of trying any other treatment the same way. I don't get that. Backward logic.
My down to earth logic says that if a ton of psychiatric meds are not helping a lot, then the problem is coming from somewhere else that those drugs are not touching. In the lyme example, not a single psychiatric prescription is going to do a thing to suppress or kill those bacteria.
Like I said, it's another story, but my point is....it is time to broaden the horizons. The psychiatric toolbox is too limited in scope to treat all depressions.
> I've been on the Parnate and Nortrip. since October. Even though I feel like sh*t, I think I would actually feel worse if I stopped taking these meds. Sometimes I feel like I have hit rock bottom, only to find out that it wasn't really rock bottom. It's awful.
>
> Adderall XR helped me before and it did not make me depressed. If this Lithium doesn't help me this week, I will ask for Adderall. I wanted to ask for it last week, but I also wanted to respect his choice of meds for me and I promised to try it for one week (the Lithium).
>
> To be honest, I don't think that anything will help me. I am broken beyond repair. I really am.
Posted by Maxime on August 3, 2010, at 22:53:36
In reply to Re: Please Help, not doing well at all, posted by bleauberry on August 3, 2010, at 18:25:45
Thank you for your thoughtful reply to me. I guess the reason that I think I am bipolar type 2 is because I was depressed as a child and teenager. The doctor told my parents that and they didn't believe them. Then in my 20s the depressions would get worse with hypomania thrown in for good fun. It was only in my mid-twenties that I started to take psych meds.
I can't help but think that if my parents had put me into therapy at a young age that my depression wouldn't be so bad and I probably wouldn't have an eating disorder.
But I need to live in present and not the past. All I know is that right now, I am one messed up person.
Posted by Maxime on August 4, 2010, at 23:08:58
In reply to Re: Really, reallly not well :(, posted by Maxime on August 3, 2010, at 16:05:50
Still feeling very unwell. I wish I was seeing my pdoc tomorrow instead of Friday.
I don't know how I am going to get out of this depression. I don't know what to do. I should probably be in the hospital but I at least want to see my pdoc.
Off to hibernate in my bed.
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