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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by med-amorphosis on June 7, 2010, at 6:08:01
In reply to Re: Gone with trimipramine, posted by Brainbeard on June 7, 2010, at 3:15:33
> That's a bummer, that it doesn't lift your depression.
Well im over my last blast of Concerta from last week-I dont feel so tearfull today (yes it was used abusively, free from a 'friend' whos an ADHD sufferer who hates the stuff).
Plus Im stopping nicotine, alcohol (I'm alcoholic) AND chronic weed toking all in one go. So that dont help either. But last night I had no bad dreams or terrors. I even woke up feeling more positive, I think!? Sort of forgot what positive feeling is like but im sure its this.
Oh-I wacked my trimipramine up to 100mg last night too and slept the least yet-6hrs! Ok so I went back to sleep but was still up by 10:30 which is amazing for me. Not only that but it didn't knock me out like it has been. I just went to bed and slept 2 hours after taking it. Maybe its a little like mirtazapine where the higher you go the more activating it becomes.
Still too early to tell but I 'might' be on to a winner here (PLEASE!!!)
Posted by chujoe on June 7, 2010, at 7:06:06
In reply to Re: Gone with trimipramine » Brainbeard, posted by med-amorphosis on June 7, 2010, at 6:08:01
Good luck to you, Med-
Stopping all those things at one time is going to put you through some serious changes & you need to be patient with yourself. Keep posting here so folks know how you're doing.
Posted by med-amorphosis on June 7, 2010, at 9:24:46
In reply to Re: Gone with trimipramine » med-amorphosis, posted by chujoe on June 7, 2010, at 7:06:06
> Good luck to you, Med-
> Stopping all those things at one time is going to put you through some serious changes & you need to be patient with yourself. Keep posting here so folks know how you're doing.Thanks chujoe, I will.
Feels like it may be kickin in. Something has allowed me to step outside the depression today (somewhat). Dont feel so lonely (I should do). I'm more relaxed and more clear-headed. Yet the depression still feels very close, like it wants to pull me back in. Make sense?
Tomorrow is payday (yay!) so I plan to take a bus ride to the coast to soak up some sea air. Not the best coastline here but I know a few spots. Should do me some good.med
Posted by chujoe on June 7, 2010, at 12:44:30
In reply to Re: Gone with trimipramine » chujoe, posted by med-amorphosis on June 7, 2010, at 9:24:46
I've heard that sea air is a really good anti-depressant!
Posted by med-amorphosis on June 7, 2010, at 18:09:31
In reply to Re: Gone with trimipramine » med-amorphosis, posted by chujoe on June 7, 2010, at 12:44:30
> I've heard that sea air is a really good anti-depressant!
Yes it certainly has an effect. Probably more so for city dwellers (like myself). And I love the coast in the autumn too so it aint just the sight of sea & sun. Im sure I'll let you know how it went.
Posted by med-amorphosis on June 9, 2010, at 9:16:24
In reply to Re: Gone with trimipramine » chujoe, posted by med-amorphosis on June 7, 2010, at 18:09:31
Well this is odd. Trimipramine 100mg is already helping. Its gentle but a definite improvement in mood. But it seems paradoxical.
Last night I took my 100mg (4 pills) around midnight. When I next checked the time it was 4am! Not even a yawn. I went to bed and had to wait a good 1/2hr for sleep. But when I tried waking this morning it was near impossible. Very vivid dreams with just about enough energy to wake, turn over and fall back to sleep.
So I'm gonna try daytime dosing. Already took my 1st dose of 50mg THIS MORNING-NO DROWSINESS :)
I plan to take my 2nd 50mg between lunch & dinner (4pm-ish). None at night. Lets see what happens.
Its also comforting to know that I can go to 300mg & beyond if need be. This med is looking more like an activating med day by day, even taken along with Klonopin, which I've lowered from 4 to 3mg without apparent consequences. Which also means I have an extra 1mg to help me sleep if needed. I doubt the Marplan has changed any mechanism of trimipramine, except maybe potentiate it.med
Posted by med-amorphosis on June 12, 2010, at 3:48:13
In reply to Re: Gone with trimipramine, posted by med-amorphosis on June 9, 2010, at 9:16:24
Surmontil (trimipramine) has kicked in solidly now. YESSS!
I'm in a fairly constant good mood (within normal range) and I feel alive once more :)
And im still taking it in the daytime.
Theres sooo much I wanna say, but must hold back. Its just the sense of RELEEF which is riding along side. Its GREAT!
I've had much depression throughout my life, mainly related to alcoholism & drug use/abuse and of course fromm the inevitable lonelyness which accompanies/results from social phobia & AvPD. But this was my 1st true ON ITS OWN bout of depression I've ever had. Very scarey. Dead clinical. Unprovoked. Came from (seemingly) nowhere. Constant crying for NO REASON WHATSOEVER (at 1st). OUCH!
Its still early but I'm there. THANKS DOC!
Still one thing bugging me- the dreams. And they aren't just vivid, they're LUCID. Scarey at 1st but getting used to them. Can manipulate them too, in a way. Last night I dreamt I was out fishing but that my med was blurring my vision. Was virtually blind. So I 'decided' its best to tell everyone there for my own safety. They all took the piss at 1st but eventually we were ALL rolling in laughter! Bloody odd. NOT a nightmare at all. I just wish I could wake up from them at will but I struggle with that part. It must be both the side effects of the med (mentioned earlier in the thread) + the effects of giving up chronic cannabis use rolled into one. I would rather it went really.
"Thats all Folks!"
For now :)
Contributions still wellcome of course!
med
Posted by Brainbeard on June 12, 2010, at 3:54:57
In reply to BINGO!, posted by med-amorphosis on June 12, 2010, at 3:48:13
Good to hear you're doing so well, congrats! And that with this atypical med that seems to virtually have been abandoned at the edges of pharmacotherapeutical history.
I was hoping that trimipramine might foster lucid dreaming, so I find your post most interesting. I have ordered a batch of trimipramine, 25mg pills, intending to try it occasionally for doing dream work.
Posted by med-amorphosis on June 12, 2010, at 3:59:55
In reply to BINGO!, posted by med-amorphosis on June 12, 2010, at 3:48:13
> Surmontil (trimipramine) has kicked in solidly now. YESSS!
> I'm in a fairly constant good mood (within normal range) and I feel alive once more :)
> And im still taking it in the daytime.
> Theres sooo much I wanna say, but must hold back. Its just the sense of RELEEF which is riding along side. Its GREAT!
> I've had much depression throughout my life, mainly related to alcoholism & drug use/abuse and of course fromm the inevitable lonelyness which accompanies/results from social phobia & AvPD. But this was my 1st true ON ITS OWN bout of depression I've ever had. Very scarey. Dead clinical. Unprovoked. Came from (seemingly) nowhere. Constant crying for NO REASON WHATSOEVER (at 1st). OUCH!
> Its still early but I'm there. THANKS DOC!
> Still one thing bugging me- the dreams. And they aren't just vivid, they're LUCID. Scarey at 1st but getting used to them. Can manipulate them too, in a way. Last night I dreamt I was out fishing but that my med was blurring my vision. Was virtually blind. So I 'decided' its best to tell everyone there for my own safety. They all took the piss at 1st but eventually we were ALL rolling in laughter! Bloody odd. NOT a nightmare at all. I just wish I could wake up from them at will but I struggle with that part. It must be both the side effects of the med (mentioned earlier in the thread) + the effects of giving up chronic cannabis use rolled into one. I would rather it went really.
> "Thats all Folks!"
> For now :)
> Contributions still wellcome of course!
> medAs a side note, I wanted to mention also that whilst dreaming, I'm also aware that I'm asleep. Bizzare! lol
Posted by med-amorphosis on June 12, 2010, at 4:12:02
In reply to Re: BINGO!, posted by Brainbeard on June 12, 2010, at 3:54:57
> Good to hear you're doing so well, congrats! And that with this atypical med that seems to virtually have been abandoned at the edges of pharmacotherapeutical history.
>
> I was hoping that trimipramine might foster lucid dreaming, so I find your post most interesting. I have ordered a batch of trimipramine, 25mg pills, intending to try it occasionally for doing dream work.
>
>THANKS MATE! Yes, sounds like a good 'legal' way of inducing that lucid state, esp 'without' constant use, as I would imagine the effect will diminish with time (I hope). Taking at night would give the best results, hence why I changed to daytime dosing- it has a medium-long half life- 11 to 23hrs. And it will knock you out, at least at 1st. Good luck with it. I'll be whatching for your results. Please babblemail me when you start.
med
Posted by SLS on June 12, 2010, at 5:38:00
In reply to BINGO!, posted by med-amorphosis on June 12, 2010, at 3:48:13
> Surmontil (trimipramine) has kicked in solidly now. YESSS!
Great!
Use it in good health!
- Scott
Posted by med-amorphosis on June 12, 2010, at 11:40:20
In reply to Re: BINGO! » med-amorphosis, posted by SLS on June 12, 2010, at 5:38:00
Posted by Phillipa on June 12, 2010, at 20:27:47
In reply to Re: BINGO! » med-amorphosis, posted by SLS on June 12, 2010, at 5:38:00
Congrats great news!!!! Phillipa
Posted by med-amorphosis on June 12, 2010, at 22:55:45
In reply to Re: BINGO!, posted by Phillipa on June 12, 2010, at 20:27:47
Posted by Leo33 on June 13, 2010, at 11:58:23
In reply to Re: Gone with trimipramine, posted by med-amorphosis on June 9, 2010, at 9:16:24
Med, how do you get prescribed Klonopin when you have an addictive personality especially in the UK??? Second question, is trimipramine contraindicated with an MAOI???
Posted by Brainbeard on June 13, 2010, at 13:28:02
In reply to Re: Gone with trimipramine, posted by Leo33 on June 13, 2010, at 11:58:23
>Second question, is trimipramine contraindicated with an MAOI???
The question may not be for me, but I can't help saying that I THINK combining trimipramine with a MAOI wouldn't cause any trouble since trimipramine doesn't inhibit the reuptake of serotonin and antagonizes 5HT2A receptors, which has been shown to counter serotonin syndrome.
Posted by med-amorphosis on June 20, 2010, at 5:04:38
In reply to Re: Gone with trimipramine, posted by Leo33 on June 13, 2010, at 11:58:23
> Med, how do you get prescribed Klonopin when you have an addictive personality especially in the UK??? Second question, is trimipramine contraindicated with an MAOI???
Basically mate, when you start running outa options, and I'd proven myself with 3+ yrs of sobriety, other options become available. Having a good pdoc who's top of his league helps too ;D. Not only that, I've NEVER found clonazepam 'more-ish'. Quite the opposite- it can worsen depression. But all this is in relation to social anxiety/phobia. I believe my addictive personality stems from my AvPD rather than being an isolated disorder. A coping mechanism which numbs the pain of the isolation social phobia/anxiety & AvPD sufferers inevitably feel. It seems more likely to be addictive with other types of anxiety than mine.
Thanks to Brainbeard for explaining the other part of the question, which is fresh info to me too!
Thanks 4 the question.
Med.
Posted by med-amorphosis on June 20, 2010, at 5:22:36
In reply to Re: Gone with trimipramine » Leo33, posted by med-amorphosis on June 20, 2010, at 5:04:38
So trimipramine is (thankfully) still makeing my waking hours more than bearable. However, my dreams have now turned to vivid nightmares & bad dreams. They are not bizzare dreams, quite life-like infact but more intense. Wake up with a headache. Hopefully its down to stopping the drink and cannabis and they will die back. I'm still slightly lucid too. For example, I had a bad dream this morning but I was able to stop and 'think' to myself "better check this is just a dream"! I woke up almost instantly. The relief was overwhelming.
I know caffein is bad for my sleep but not quite given that up yet. Maybe once I do.... Tomorrow I give up the nicotine. That will stir things up no doubt and following that, in 1-2 weeks the caffein will have to stop too. I'm VERY sensitive to caffein, which itself brings on bad dreams but usually of the 'bizzare' kind- monsters, zombies, etc. They still feel real enough.
Med.
Posted by Brainbeard on June 20, 2010, at 7:49:33
In reply to Oh dear. Nightmares :(, posted by med-amorphosis on June 20, 2010, at 5:22:36
Thumbs up man.
When I quit smoking joints I dreamt I was riding away in panic from a castle where I had been kept imprisoned. Very adequate imagery.
Posted by med-amorphosis on June 20, 2010, at 17:12:33
In reply to Re: Oh dear. Nightmares :( » med-amorphosis, posted by Brainbeard on June 20, 2010, at 7:49:33
> Thumbs up man.
>
> When I quit smoking joints I dreamt I was riding away in panic from a castle where I had been kept imprisoned. Very adequate imagery.Yeah, very adequate indeed! Mine seem to be more about my life before smoking weed, as well as some earlier stuff. NOT that I used weed as an escapism. In fact weed used to often enhance the negative feeling at the time these things happened. All totally based on real-life events which, perhapse, I never dealt with properly. Makes sense, just wish they would go away. I feel I've already dealt with these issues enough & in depth. Maybe its from stopping the drink, but I never had such dreams last time I stopped. But maybe its better this way- in the end.
Med.
Posted by med-amorphosis on June 20, 2010, at 17:26:02
In reply to Re: Oh dear. Nightmares :( » Brainbeard, posted by med-amorphosis on June 20, 2010, at 17:12:33
I still have my lofepramine, which must have left my system over a week ago now. I'm gonna add a small dose back into my regime. Just 70mg, 1/3rd of my previous dosing. And taken at night, away from my trimipramine dosing. There was no need for a wasout period before, just a 2 day break before switching as a precaution. Think the 70mg is safe enough? I'm also only on 1/3rd of trimipramine's max daily dose. And remember, lofepramine works entirely different to trimipramine- its almost pure NRI with perhapse a little but negligable SRI effect. I DO NOT intend to go above 70mg lofepramine, at least not untill I've seen my pdoc at the end of the month.
If anyone cares to correct me on anything I've said, or comment please feel free.
Med.
Posted by med-amorphosis on June 21, 2010, at 7:08:36
In reply to And a little bit of this..., posted by med-amorphosis on June 20, 2010, at 17:26:02
It seems to have worked I tell ya! That little 70mg lofepramine last night 'seems' to have let me sleep more normally. No dreams which I can recollect. Falling asleep was slightly difficult and waking up several time far too early. Maybe change the time of dosing? Its gonna take more than one night to know exactly how well it works but its promising results.
Med.
Posted by med-amorphosis on June 22, 2010, at 14:34:18
In reply to Re: And a little bit of this..., posted by med-amorphosis on June 21, 2010, at 7:08:36
And again! Just adding 70mg lofepramine gave me another dreamless night. I will try withought it at the end of the week just to make sure the dreams haven't subsided by themselves, but I doubt it.
Also, I should mention I've been taking DLPA for the last few weeks to prepare myself for caffein withdrawals. I've already started to cut down slowly. I get extremely depressed whenever I stop caffein- an indication its no good for me. It hinders responses to meds too. I will probably keep the DLPA, if needed, as a caffein substitute. No side effects that I've noticed from it.
Posted by jade k on July 2, 2010, at 10:41:01
In reply to Re: And a little bit of this..., posted by med-amorphosis on June 22, 2010, at 14:34:18
and a little bit of that...;-P
>I've already started to cut down slowly. I get extremely depressed whenever I stop caffein- an indication its no good for me.I always get a headache if I don't get that cup of coffee in the morning
>> It hinders responses to meds too.
I wasn't aware that caffiene hindered med response. Is that what you have experienced or is it true for everyone? I'd never heard that, good to know.
~Jade
Posted by med-amorphosis on July 2, 2010, at 18:42:02
In reply to Re: And a little bit of this... » med-amorphosis, posted by jade k on July 2, 2010, at 10:41:01
> and a little bit of that...;-P
hehe very good lol ;)
> I always get a headache if I don't get that cup of coffee in the morning
Thats a CLEAR indication of addiction. Most people are addicted, or to put it less harshly, rely on caffeine. Just try 1 week of it and watch ur natural energy come back! But You'll at least get headaches as well as depression and great lethergy too if you go cold-turkey. Sound familiar? Im cutting down by dropping 25mg per week (half a pro plus pill). I still need my morning caffeinated tea lol
> >> It hinders responses to meds too.
>
> I wasn't aware that caffiene hindered med response. Is that what you have experienced or is it true for everyone? I'd never heard that, good to know.Every time i've started an SSRI its zonked me out, so I reach for the caffeine, then the med kicks in almost instantly, then poops out after a week or 2 never to return. I KNOW caffeine ruined Nardil for me, i was fine till I started drinking it regularly again. Nardil was at its best when I was TOTALLY caffeine (and all other substances) free. It was perfectly ballanced- neither too stimulating or sedating.
> ~Jade
>
Caffeine is, IMHO, the culprit to a large number of mental illness, esp insomnia , CFS, mild depression, mood swings, etc. Its overlooked 'cause its so common and socially acceptable. Maybe I am more sensitive to it than others but nobody is free from its side effects. Best thing about quiting caffeine is that it makes a fantastic recreational stimulant for occasional use! Easily up there with amphetamines & cocain! Just watch for panick attacks!!! one coffee is plenty once uve given up. Or you will have palpitations, panic &/or anxiety attacks. As well as talk loadsa garbage lol
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