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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Phillipa on June 3, 2010, at 19:51:02
Consumer reports from Wall street Journal that Americans prefer meds over theaphy for anxiety and depression. Phillipa
Posted by Christ_empowered on June 3, 2010, at 19:56:04
In reply to Americans prefer Meds Vs Psychotheraphy for A + D, posted by Phillipa on June 3, 2010, at 19:51:02
I think part of the prob is that for years we've been fed the "chemical imbalance" theory. If you go to a Doctor and they hand you scripts, its easy to say: the problem is my brain. Its like "Blaming The Brain"...both the medical professionals who make money off our misery AND the patient get away with this pseudo-scientific stuff b/c it works. It works for the shrinks b/c they can still act like "real" docs even though all they really do is give people potentially harmful, often ineffective meds for non-physical problems, and it works for patients, b/c then we can just blame our brain instead of figuring out what the *real* problem is. That said, I think drugs can help get us through a tough patch..I just think its important that the mental health industry start being more honest with people. If that doesn't happen (and it probably won't), then at least we as (ex) patients should educate ourselves and others, and find ways to lead joyful, productive lives. I recommend Christianity.
Good post, Phillipa.
Posted by Phillipa on June 3, 2010, at 20:13:58
In reply to Re: Americans prefer Meds Vs Psychotheraphy for A + D, posted by Christ_empowered on June 3, 2010, at 19:56:04
I must read this book. Thanks Phillipa
Posted by linkadge on June 3, 2010, at 20:47:34
In reply to Re: Americans prefer Meds Vs Psychotheraphy for A + D, posted by Christ_empowered on June 3, 2010, at 19:56:04
I don't prefer religion. God (apparently) left me high and dry. Amitriptyline filled the hole. But, whatever works for you.
Linkadge
Posted by topcatclr on June 3, 2010, at 21:40:38
In reply to Re: Americans prefer Meds Vs Psychotheraphy for A + D, posted by linkadge on June 3, 2010, at 20:47:34
I think part of the prob is that for years we've been fed the "chemical imbalance" theory. If you go to a Doctor and they hand you scripts, its easy to say: the problem is my brain. Its like "Blaming The Brain"...both the medical professionals who make money off our misery AND the patient get away with this pseudo-scientific stuff b/c it works. It works for the shrinks b/c they can still act like "real" docs even though all they really do is give people potentially harmful, often ineffective meds for non-physical problems, and it works for patients, b/c then we can just blame our brain instead of figuring out what the *real* problem is. That said, I think drugs can help get us through a tough patch..I just think its important that the mental health industry start being more honest with people. If that doesn't happen (and it probably won't), then at least we as (ex) patients should educate ourselves and others, and find ways to lead joyful, productive lives. I recommend Christianity.
Well i figured out what my problems were and attempted to deal with them through cbt, meditation etc.. Didn't do squat diddly! Drugs rule!
Go
Posted by stargazer2 on June 3, 2010, at 21:58:55
In reply to Americans prefer Meds Vs Psychotheraphy for A + D, posted by Phillipa on June 3, 2010, at 19:51:02
It's not that we Americans prefer meds...it's that the insurance companies would not pay for psychotherapy because it was too expensive and took too long. Meds were supposed to cure us and keep costs down...little did they realize the costs and ineffectiveness and short lived treatments costs in the long run.
Oh well some one is getting rich off of our misery.
I gave up the medication merry go round a few years ago realizing it was mostly a bunch of BS. I never felt better on the meds for very long, all with the exception of Nardil which is a Gold standard for many of us. All of the Me-too meds are just ways for pharmaceutical companies to keep their patents from expiring...not to help patients but their bottom line.
Posted by sigismund on June 4, 2010, at 2:33:22
In reply to Re: Americans prefer Meds Vs Psychotheraphy for A, posted by topcatclr on June 3, 2010, at 21:40:38
>Drugs rule!
Not the ones you can get
Posted by CrAzYmEd on June 4, 2010, at 5:02:26
In reply to Re: Americans prefer Meds Vs Psychotheraphy for A, posted by sigismund on June 4, 2010, at 2:33:22
Wich is a good thing!
Posted by topcatclr on June 4, 2010, at 12:23:14
In reply to Re: Americans prefer Meds Vs Psychotheraphy for A, posted by sigismund on June 4, 2010, at 2:33:22
Posted by sigismund on June 4, 2010, at 2:33:22
In reply to Re: Americans prefer Meds Vs Psychotheraphy for A, posted by topcatclr on June 3, 2010, at 21:40:38
>Drugs rule!
Not the ones you can get
Yes, the ones i get, namely Cymbalta!
Posted by Lou Pilder on June 4, 2010, at 16:42:49
In reply to Re: Americans prefer Meds Vs Psychotheraphy for A + D, posted by Christ_empowered on June 3, 2010, at 19:56:04
> I think part of the prob is that for years we've been fed the "chemical imbalance" theory. If you go to a Doctor and they hand you scripts, its easy to say: the problem is my brain. Its like "Blaming The Brain"...both the medical professionals who make money off our misery AND the patient get away with this pseudo-scientific stuff b/c it works. It works for the shrinks b/c they can still act like "real" docs even though all they really do is give people potentially harmful, often ineffective meds for non-physical problems, and it works for patients, b/c then we can just blame our brain instead of figuring out what the *real* problem is. That said, I think drugs can help get us through a tough patch..I just think its important that the mental health industry start being more honest with people. If that doesn't happen (and it probably won't), then at least we as (ex) patients should educate ourselves and others, and find ways to lead joyful, productive lives. I recommend Christianity.
>
> Good post, Phillipa.
>
> C_e,
You wrote,[...figuring out what the *real* problem is...].
I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean. If you could post answers to the following, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly. In yout opinion,
A. Is the *real* problem the same for all?
B. If so, what is the real problem?
C. If it is not the same for all, then what could be some problems that are *real*?
D. How did you find the real problem, if you found it?
E. If you found it, what was the solution too the problem if there was one?
F. other questions if the above are answerd
Lou
Posted by SLS on June 4, 2010, at 18:24:24
In reply to Lou's request-rvrnehejp » Christ_empowered, posted by Lou Pilder on June 4, 2010, at 16:42:49
> > I think part of the prob is that for years we've been fed the "chemical imbalance" theory. If you go to a Doctor and they hand you scripts, its easy to say: the problem is my brain. Its like "Blaming The Brain"...both the medical professionals who make money off our misery AND the patient get away with this pseudo-scientific stuff b/c it works. It works for the shrinks b/c they can still act like "real" docs even though all they really do is give people potentially harmful, often ineffective meds for non-physical problems, and it works for patients, b/c then we can just blame our brain instead of figuring out what the *real* problem is. That said, I think drugs can help get us through a tough patch..I just think its important that the mental health industry start being more honest with people. If that doesn't happen (and it probably won't), then at least we as (ex) patients should educate ourselves and others, and find ways to lead joyful, productive lives. I recommend Christianity.
> You wrote,[...figuring out what the *real* problem is...].
> I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean. If you could post answers to the following, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly. In yout opinion,
> A. Is the *real* problem the same for all?
> B. If so, what is the real problem?
> C. If it is not the same for all, then what could be some problems that are *real*?
> D. How did you find the real problem, if you found it?
> E. If you found it, what was the solution too the problem if there was one?
> F. other questions if the above are answerd
> Lou
Those are insightful questions, Lou.
- Scott
Posted by Lou Pilder on June 4, 2010, at 20:32:06
In reply to Re: Lou's request-rvrnehejp, posted by SLS on June 4, 2010, at 18:24:24
> > > I think part of the prob is that for years we've been fed the "chemical imbalance" theory. If you go to a Doctor and they hand you scripts, its easy to say: the problem is my brain. Its like "Blaming The Brain"...both the medical professionals who make money off our misery AND the patient get away with this pseudo-scientific stuff b/c it works. It works for the shrinks b/c they can still act like "real" docs even though all they really do is give people potentially harmful, often ineffective meds for non-physical problems, and it works for patients, b/c then we can just blame our brain instead of figuring out what the *real* problem is. That said, I think drugs can help get us through a tough patch..I just think its important that the mental health industry start being more honest with people. If that doesn't happen (and it probably won't), then at least we as (ex) patients should educate ourselves and others, and find ways to lead joyful, productive lives. I recommend Christianity.
>
>
> > You wrote,[...figuring out what the *real* problem is...].
> > I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean. If you could post answers to the following, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly. In yout opinion,
> > A. Is the *real* problem the same for all?
> > B. If so, what is the real problem?
> > C. If it is not the same for all, then what could be some problems that are *real*?
> > D. How did you find the real problem, if you found it?
> > E. If you found it, what was the solution too the problem if there was one?
> > F. other questions if the above are answerd
> > Louscott,
You wrote,[...are insightful..]
I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean. If you could post answers to the following, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
A. Could my questions bring out something from the poster that could be a universal problem?
B. If the member is wanting to mean a universal problem, could you think of a universal problem, if you know of one?
C. If there is a universal problem, what could be the solution to it, if you know?
D. If there is a *real* problem, could there also be an imaginary problem?
E. If so, do you know of one?
F. If there are real problems and imaginary problems, what criteria could one use to differentiate between them?
G. Can an imaginary problem be a real problem?
H. other questions if answers are given to the above.
Lou
>
>
> Those are insightful questions, Lou.
>
>
> - Scott
Posted by SLS on June 4, 2010, at 22:20:39
In reply to Lou's reply-rheelorihmaggin » SLS, posted by Lou Pilder on June 4, 2010, at 20:32:06
> > > > I think part of the prob is that for years we've been fed the "chemical imbalance" theory. If you go to a Doctor and they hand you scripts, its easy to say: the problem is my brain. Its like "Blaming The Brain"...both the medical professionals who make money off our misery AND the patient get away with this pseudo-scientific stuff b/c it works. It works for the shrinks b/c they can still act like "real" docs even though all they really do is give people potentially harmful, often ineffective meds for non-physical problems, and it works for patients, b/c then we can just blame our brain instead of figuring out what the *real* problem is. That said, I think drugs can help get us through a tough patch..I just think its important that the mental health industry start being more honest with people. If that doesn't happen (and it probably won't), then at least we as (ex) patients should educate ourselves and others, and find ways to lead joyful, productive lives. I recommend Christianity.
> > > You wrote,[...figuring out what the *real* problem is...].
> > > I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean. If you could post answers to the following, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly. In yout opinion,
> > > A. Is the *real* problem the same for all?
> > > B. If so, what is the real problem?
> > > C. If it is not the same for all, then what could be some problems that are *real*?
> > > D. How did you find the real problem, if you found it?
> > > E. If you found it, what was the solution too the problem if there was one?
> > > F. other questions if the above are answerd
> > > Lou
> > Those are insightful questions, Lou.> You wrote,[...are insightful..]
> I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean. If you could post answers to the following, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.> A. Could my questions bring out something from the poster that could be a universal problem?
I hope it does. I would be interested in knowing what *my* real problem is.
> B. If the member is wanting to mean a universal problem, could you think of a universal problem, if you know of one?
I don't know of any. However, I am left wondering if this member was referring to one. Perhaps it is universally true that biological psychiatry is always wrong.
> C. If there is a universal problem, what could be the solution to it, if you know?
If there is a universal problem, I hope that I quickly come to know what it is and how to resolve it.
> D. If there is a *real* problem, could there also be an imaginary problem?
This is what I am led to believe.
> E. If so, do you know of one?
I guess imaginary problems become real problems if they are perceived as being such.
> F. If there are real problems and imaginary problems, what criteria could one use to differentiate between them?
Placebo response. (Just kidding).
> G. Can an imaginary problem be a real problem?
Please see above.
> H. other questions if answers are given to the above.
If psychiatrists have it wrong, then who has it right?
- Scott
Posted by bulldog2 on June 5, 2010, at 14:36:24
In reply to Americans prefer Meds Vs Psychotheraphy for A + D, posted by Phillipa on June 3, 2010, at 19:51:02
> Consumer reports from Wall street Journal that Americans prefer meds over theaphy for anxiety and depression. Phillipa
>
> http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2010/06/01/consumer-reports-asks-readers-what-worked-for-anxiety-and-depression/I've been in and out of therapy for almost 40 years. Talk talk talk yada yada yada. Good things were often discovered and a lot of aha moments. But I didn't change.
One p-doc made a good point to me. The thoughts that cause bad reaction that cause anxiety and depression are hard wired in the brain. For some the hard wirig cannot be over come. I could sit in the chair opposite the p-doc until infinity and I am still the same. Hence my vote for meds. However we need better meds!
Posted by bulldog2 on June 5, 2010, at 14:50:02
In reply to Re: Lou's reply-rheelorihmaggin » Lou Pilder, posted by SLS on June 4, 2010, at 22:20:39
> > > > > I think part of the prob is that for years we've been fed the "chemical imbalance" theory. If you go to a Doctor and they hand you scripts, its easy to say: the problem is my brain. Its like "Blaming The Brain"...both the medical professionals who make money off our misery AND the patient get away with this pseudo-scientific stuff b/c it works. It works for the shrinks b/c they can still act like "real" docs even though all they really do is give people potentially harmful, often ineffective meds for non-physical problems, and it works for patients, b/c then we can just blame our brain instead of figuring out what the *real* problem is. That said, I think drugs can help get us through a tough patch..I just think its important that the mental health industry start being more honest with people. If that doesn't happen (and it probably won't), then at least we as (ex) patients should educate ourselves and others, and find ways to lead joyful, productive lives. I recommend Christianity.
>
>
> > > > You wrote,[...figuring out what the *real* problem is...].
> > > > I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean. If you could post answers to the following, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly. In yout opinion,
> > > > A. Is the *real* problem the same for all?
> > > > B. If so, what is the real problem?
> > > > C. If it is not the same for all, then what could be some problems that are *real*?
> > > > D. How did you find the real problem, if you found it?
> > > > E. If you found it, what was the solution too the problem if there was one?
> > > > F. other questions if the above are answerd
> > > > Lou
>
>
> > > Those are insightful questions, Lou.
>
> > You wrote,[...are insightful..]
> > I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean. If you could post answers to the following, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
>
> > A. Could my questions bring out something from the poster that could be a universal problem?
>
> I hope it does. I would be interested in knowing what *my* real problem is.
>
> > B. If the member is wanting to mean a universal problem, could you think of a universal problem, if you know of one?
>
> I don't know of any. However, I am left wondering if this member was referring to one. Perhaps it is universally true that biological psychiatry is always wrong.
>
> > C. If there is a universal problem, what could be the solution to it, if you know?
>
> If there is a universal problem, I hope that I quickly come to know what it is and how to resolve it.
>
> > D. If there is a *real* problem, could there also be an imaginary problem?
>
> This is what I am led to believe.
>
> > E. If so, do you know of one?
>
> I guess imaginary problems become real problems if they are perceived as being such.
>
> > F. If there are real problems and imaginary problems, what criteria could one use to differentiate between them?
>
> Placebo response. (Just kidding).
>
> > G. Can an imaginary problem be a real problem?
>
> Please see above.
>
> > H. other questions if answers are given to the above.
>
> If psychiatrists have it wrong, then who has it right?
>
>
> - Scott
>
>That's the problem. We have a haystack of people who have the universal answer to our mental health issues. So we (mental issues) are looking at this pile of experts expounding the "truth" for us. I am left with the problem of picking out the needle of truth out in this haystack of yada yada yada.It's very exhausting for me and probably for you. There could be one needle of truth or multiple needles of truth. Or worst case they are all wrong.
My question to the person expounding christianity or others above who have the answers is how do I know you have the ultimate truth. Why should I trust you?
Posted by topcatclr on June 6, 2010, at 11:40:34
In reply to Re: Lou's reply-rheelorihmaggin, posted by bulldog2 on June 5, 2010, at 14:50:02
Every time i hear mental illness doesn't exist it infuriates me! Mental illness DOES exist and so does EVIL. Evil is selling books for profit, telling people it's all in their head!
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 6, 2010, at 19:33:30
In reply to Re: Lou's reply-rheelorihmaggin, posted by bulldog2 on June 5, 2010, at 14:50:02
> My question to the person expounding christianity or others above who have the answers is how do I know you have the ultimate truth.
Sorry to interrupt, but I'd like to redirect follow-ups regarding the ultimate truth to Psycho-Babble Faith. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faith/20100403/msgs/950148.html
That'll be considered a new thread, so if you'd like to be notified by email of follow-ups to it, you'll need to request that there. Thanks,
Bob
This is the end of the thread.
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