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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by bulldog2 on February 7, 2010, at 13:45:24
In reply to Re: Opioids for Depression » jedi, posted by Cherry Carver on February 7, 2010, at 10:16:17
> I just posted a message about my experience with Dilaudid, but in reading your post I recalled that in 1987, when I was 24, in college, I found an old bottle of Percodan in my boyfriend's house and asked if I could take one. He can't tolerate pain meds, so he said sure, it's all yours.
>
> For the next two weeks I was in heaven. I hadn't been diagnosed for panic disorder at that point, but up to that point, as much as I loved college, I was scared every single day. On Percodan, however, I found that I could do anything (like speak up in class), felt 100% confident and fearless, and I did better work than I ever did before in my life. Sleep was wonderful.
>
> Then I ran out of pills the night before I had to go to a day-long seminar. I was a wreck. All the magic was dead and gone. It didn't take long for me to withdraw, but I really wanted to try it again, so I went to my boyfriend's dentist, feigning a toothache, and he prescribed me some more.
>
> Strangely, the Percodan I got this time (compared to the vintage bottle from c. 1982), made me sick to my stomach and barely produced any worthwhile buzz. I've noticed that about nearly all prescription opiates since then. Were drug companies forced to add a component to produce nausea instead of euphoria in order to discourage addiction? It sure discouraged me from taking any more Percodan.
>
> But what I wouldn't give to feel that good again....
>
>
>
>
> > Hi Guys,
> > Every time I have taken opioids short term, they have helped my depression. I'm sure that many of the addicts using street drugs or fraudulently obtained prescription medications are self medicating for depression.
> >
> > My question is: Has anybody, currently on this board, ever obtained long term relief from major depression using opioids? Any positive or negative experiences will be appreciated.
> > Thanks,
> > Jedi
> >
>
>I agree with you. Did you get real percocet or one of the many generics out there? Some of them are real crappy.
Brand name oxycontin which has the same naroctic ingrediant as perocet (oxycodone) is very nice.
Posted by floatingbridge on February 7, 2010, at 17:50:08
In reply to Re: Opioids for Depression, posted by kirbyw on February 2, 2010, at 3:50:40
Kirby, yeah, I have pain that comes and goes. I find a Vicodin ( half to a whole 5/500) helps in every way--and it made me a little nervous to discover the mood enhancing effect.
I keep a mood chart and my doc remarked upon that--that I responded to opiates. Yeah, I said, doesn't everyone?
I have a tiny bottle and use judiciously when the back pain becomes too great. I don't need addiction issues on top of everything else.
fb
Posted by floatingbridge on February 7, 2010, at 17:59:50
In reply to Re: Opioids for Depression » jedi, posted by paulbwell on February 5, 2010, at 6:13:46
I'm sorry Paul. How do you think you'll address your addiction?
How long until you developed tolerance? I write my consumption down daily and share with my doc as a precaution. Still....
Good luck,
fb
Posted by floatingbridge on February 7, 2010, at 18:03:56
In reply to Re: Opioids for Depression, posted by bulldog2 on February 2, 2010, at 10:48:28
Bulldog, for real pain, they are a boon. Pain causes so many other conditions ands needs to be treated. Ad effects are a bonus to enjoy.
Posted by conundrum on February 7, 2010, at 20:05:47
In reply to Re: Opioids for Depression, posted by floatingbridge on February 7, 2010, at 17:50:08
<I keep a mood chart and my doc remarked upon that--that I responded to opiates. Yeah, I said, doesn't everyone?
Nope
Posted by floatingbridge on February 7, 2010, at 22:45:40
In reply to Re: Opioids for Depression » floatingbridge, posted by conundrum on February 7, 2010, at 20:05:47
> <I keep a mood chart and my doc remarked upon that--that I responded to opiates. Yeah, I said, doesn't everyone?
> NopeReally? I'm surprised. Hmmmm.
Posted by Cherry Carver on February 8, 2010, at 6:10:58
In reply to Re: Opioids for Depression, posted by bulldog2 on February 7, 2010, at 13:45:24
What I took was Percodan. (The only difference between the two brand names is that Percodan has aspirin in it, while Percocet contains acetominophen.) I have never let anyone prescribe me Oxycontin because I've heard so many good things about it *LOL* that I'm afraid I'd get addicted! Maybe I should go for it next time I have the chance.
Nights were so peaceful on that ancient Percodan. I loved the sensation of sleeping literally on a cloud. It was as close to my idea of heaven as I have ever been.
> > I just posted a message about my experience with Dilaudid, but in reading your post I recalled that in 1987, when I was 24, in college, I found an old bottle of Percodan in my boyfriend's house and asked if I could take one. He can't tolerate pain meds, so he said sure, it's all yours.
> >
> > For the next two weeks I was in heaven. I hadn't been diagnosed for panic disorder at that point, but up to that point, as much as I loved college, I was scared every single day. On Percodan, however, I found that I could do anything (like speak up in class), felt 100% confident and fearless, and I did better work than I ever did before in my life. Sleep was wonderful.
> >
> > Then I ran out of pills the night before I had to go to a day-long seminar. I was a wreck. All the magic was dead and gone. It didn't take long for me to withdraw, but I really wanted to try it again, so I went to my boyfriend's dentist, feigning a toothache, and he prescribed me some more.
> >
> > Strangely, the Percodan I got this time (compared to the vintage bottle from c. 1982), made me sick to my stomach and barely produced any worthwhile buzz. I've noticed that about nearly all prescription opiates since then. Were drug companies forced to add a component to produce nausea instead of euphoria in order to discourage addiction? It sure discouraged me from taking any more Percodan.
> >
> > But what I wouldn't give to feel that good again....
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Hi Guys,
> > > Every time I have taken opioids short term, they have helped my depression. I'm sure that many of the addicts using street drugs or fraudulently obtained prescription medications are self medicating for depression.
> > >
> > > My question is: Has anybody, currently on this board, ever obtained long term relief from major depression using opioids? Any positive or negative experiences will be appreciated.
> > > Thanks,
> > > Jedi
> > >
> >
> >
>
> I agree with you. Did you get real percocet or one of the many generics out there? Some of them are real crappy.
>
> Brand name oxycontin which has the same naroctic ingrediant as perocet (oxycodone) is very nice.
Posted by Cherry Carver on February 8, 2010, at 6:17:26
In reply to Re: Opioids for Depression, posted by floatingbridge on February 7, 2010, at 22:45:40
Great comment, floatingbridge...I sure responded to them! ;)
Did you create your own mood chart or did someone give you one to fill in? I love the concept!
> > <I keep a mood chart and my doc remarked upon that--that I responded to opiates. Yeah, I said, doesn't everyone?
> > Nope
>
> Really? I'm surprised. Hmmmm.
>
>
Posted by conundrum on February 8, 2010, at 7:00:44
In reply to Re: Opioids for Depression, posted by floatingbridge on February 7, 2010, at 22:45:40
Sad but true. Atleast for me. I truly don't understand it either. I also have some low grade joint pains like many depressives and they don't help much with that either.
Posted by floatingbridge on February 8, 2010, at 9:25:47
In reply to Re: Opioids for Depression » floatingbridge, posted by conundrum on February 8, 2010, at 7:00:44
> Sad but true. Atleast for me. I truly don't understand it either. I also have some low grade joint pains like many depressives and they don't help much with that either.
Conundrum, that is odd, and I'm sorry, too. Have you found things that do work for you?
I'm so curious I'm going to run this by my pdoc. Anything interesting and I'll. post back.
fb
Posted by bulldog2 on February 8, 2010, at 9:51:14
In reply to Re: Opioids for Depression » conundrum, posted by floatingbridge on February 8, 2010, at 9:25:47
> > Sad but true. Atleast for me. I truly don't understand it either. I also have some low grade joint pains like many depressives and they don't help much with that either.
>
> Conundrum, that is odd, and I'm sorry, too. Have you found things that do work for you?
>
> I'm so curious I'm going to run this by my pdoc. Anything interesting and I'll. post back.
>
> fbThere is a hypothesis that some depressions may be caused by a shortage of endogenous opoids. That's why some people say painkillers have no effect on their mood and other people respond well to them.
Posted by floatingbridge on February 8, 2010, at 10:26:57
In reply to Re: Opioids for Depression » floatingbridge, posted by bulldog2 on February 8, 2010, at 9:51:14
> > > Sad but true. Atleast for me. I truly don't understand it either. I also have some low grade joint pains like many depressives and they don't help much with that either.
> >
> > Conundrum, that is odd, and I'm sorry, too. Have you found things that do work for you?
> >
> > I'm so curious I'm going to run this
by my pdoc. Anything interesting and I'll. post back.
> >
> > fb
>
> There is a hypothesis that some depressions may be caused by a shortage of endogenous opoids. That's
why some people say painkillers have no effect on their mood and other people respond well to them.Oh. Endogenous--not related to endorphins? I'll Google.
Thnx Bulldog
Posted by bulldog2 on February 8, 2010, at 18:16:08
In reply to Re: Opioids for Depression » bulldog2, posted by floatingbridge on February 8, 2010, at 10:26:57
> > > > Sad but true. Atleast for me. I truly don't understand it either. I also have some low grade joint pains like many depressives and they don't help much with that either.
> > >
> > > Conundrum, that is odd, and I'm sorry, too. Have you found things that do work for you?
> > >
> > > I'm so curious I'm going to run this
> by my pdoc. Anything interesting and I'll. post back.
> > >
> > > fb
> >
> > There is a hypothesis that some depressions may be caused by a shortage of endogenous opoids. That's
> why some people say painkillers have no effect on their mood and other people respond well to them.
>
> Oh. Endogenous--not related to endorphins? I'll Google.
>
> Thnx Bulldog
>No endogenous means made within your body. There are opiate receptors in your body and the body makes its own opiates (endogenous) for these receptors. perhaps some do not make enough of these feel good neurotransmitters. I guess these opiates are what you referred to as endorphins.
Posted by Cherry Carver on February 8, 2010, at 19:08:38
In reply to Re: Opioids for Depression, posted by bulldog2 on February 8, 2010, at 18:16:08
Fascinating discussion! One would think that if some kinds of depression are relieved by opioids, doctors would prescribe it more often instead of screwing around with SSRIs and NSRIs, etc, which made me really sick.
Do opiates stimulate the endorphins, create more endorphins, or just hit the pleasure center in one's brain? I know next to nothing about the structure or chemistry of the brain, so forgive me if my questions sound really stupid. Couldn't someone invent a drug that stimulates endorphin production without doping people up or making them sick?
> > > There is a hypothesis that some depressions may be caused by a shortage of endogenous opoids. That's
> > why some people say painkillers have no effect on their mood and other people respond well to them.
> >
> > Oh. Endogenous--not related to endorphins? I'll Google.
> >
> > Thnx Bulldog
> >
>
> No endogenous means made within your body. There are opiate receptors in your body and the body makes its own opiates (endogenous) for these receptors. perhaps some do not make enough of these feel good neurotransmitters. I guess these opiates are what you referred to as endorphins.
Posted by Sigismund on February 8, 2010, at 20:28:38
In reply to Re: Opioids for Depression » bulldog2, posted by Cherry Carver on February 8, 2010, at 19:08:38
>One would think that if some kinds of depression are relieved by opioids, doctors would prescribe it more often instead of screwing around with SSRIs and NSRIs, etc, which made me really sick.
One might think that (on one's better days).
My psych summed it up by saying of the opiate receptor: That's the devils receptor (quite unlike those other respectable receptors).
Posted by conundrum on February 8, 2010, at 20:36:50
In reply to Re: Opioids for Depression » conundrum, posted by floatingbridge on February 8, 2010, at 9:25:47
So far I haven't found anything that works, but I haven't tried all that much yet. Fingers crossed.
Posted by Cherry Carver on February 8, 2010, at 23:51:45
In reply to Re: Opioids for Depression, posted by Sigismund on February 8, 2010, at 20:28:38
The devil, you say? ;)
Better the devil you know....
> >One would think that if some kinds of depression are relieved by opioids, doctors would prescribe it more often instead of screwing around with SSRIs and NSRIs, etc, which made me really sick.
>
> One might think that (on one's better days).
>
> My psych summed it up by saying of the opiate receptor: That's the devils receptor (quite unlike those other respectable receptors).
Posted by bulldog2 on February 9, 2010, at 9:00:14
In reply to Re: Opioids for Depression » bulldog2, posted by Cherry Carver on February 8, 2010, at 19:08:38
> Fascinating discussion! One would think that if some kinds of depression are relieved by opioids, doctors would prescribe it more often instead of screwing around with SSRIs and NSRIs, etc, which made me really sick.
>
> Do opiates stimulate the endorphins, create more endorphins, or just hit the pleasure center in one's brain? I know next to nothing about the structure or chemistry of the brain, so forgive me if my questions sound really stupid. Couldn't someone invent a drug that stimulates endorphin production without doping people up or making them sick?
>
>
>
> > > > There is a hypothesis that some depressions may be caused by a shortage of endogenous opoids. That's
> > > why some people say painkillers have no effect on their mood and other people respond well to them.
> > >
> > > Oh. Endogenous--not related to endorphins? I'll Google.
> > >
> > > Thnx Bulldog
> > >
> >
> > No endogenous means made within your body. There are opiate receptors in your body and the body makes its own opiates (endogenous) for these receptors. perhaps some do not make enough of these feel good neurotransmitters. I guess these opiates are what you referred to as endorphins.
>
>opiates just stimulate the opiate receptors. They also cause your body to shut down making its own supply.
Posted by Sigismund on February 9, 2010, at 14:46:05
In reply to Re: Opioids for Depression, posted by bulldog2 on February 9, 2010, at 9:00:14
>They also cause your body to shut down making its own supply.
Unlike those other receptors?
Posted by floatingbridge on February 9, 2010, at 14:58:43
In reply to Re: Opioids for Depression » bulldog2, posted by Sigismund on February 9, 2010, at 14:46:05
Ummm. Okay, I'll say it. LDN for depression, esp w/ pain or autoimmune?
(I know there's a thread going right now about it....)
curious,
fb
Also wiki listed non-opoid pain meds I was unfamiliar with. Under 'endogenous opoids'. Also read that opoids are safe pain relief IF managed well, including dosages not exceeding relief levels, regular rotation of meds, and augmentors. But most of you know that already.
Anyone on this thread try LDN--or is that the wrong tree I'm barking under?
Posted by Sigismund on February 9, 2010, at 15:41:57
In reply to Re: Opioids for Depression, posted by floatingbridge on February 9, 2010, at 14:58:43
I think I might profit from LDN but my reservation is the sleep angle. My sleep is fragile but OK at the moment and I'm fairly sure LDN would worsen things before they got better.
Posted by floatingbridge on February 9, 2010, at 18:05:41
In reply to Re: Opioids for Depression » floatingbridge, posted by Sigismund on February 9, 2010, at 15:41:57
> I think I might profit from LDN but my reservation is the sleep angle. My sleep is fragile but OK at the moment and I'm fairly sure LDN would worsen things before they got better.
Yeah, a concern of mine as well--or if I'd wake terribly anxious. Still....
Posted by Phillipa on February 9, 2010, at 19:59:18
In reply to Re: Opioids for Depression » Sigismund, posted by floatingbridge on February 9, 2010, at 18:05:41
Tea has a lot of info on ldn. Used with a lot of autoimmune diseases from what l.5-4mg? Love Phillipa
Posted by floatingbridge on February 9, 2010, at 20:10:45
In reply to Re: Opioids for Depression » floatingbridge, posted by Phillipa on February 9, 2010, at 19:59:18
Phillipa, you haven't tried it? I'm following Tea's and Cassie's thread. My pdoc hadn't heard of it. Someone I know with PD was looking into it.
fb
Posted by Phillipa on February 9, 2010, at 21:31:06
In reply to Re: Opioids for Depression » Phillipa, posted by floatingbridge on February 9, 2010, at 20:10:45
FB no I haven't. I had saved a great post. Deleted it recently. You can find it as was on babble. Google TeaLady. Love Phillipa
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