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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by inanimate peanut on December 31, 2009, at 22:44:25
So, bleauberry had mentioned Julia Ross in a couple of his posts. I looked her up and apparently her book is "The Mood Cure" The website is http://www.moodcure.com. You can take a questionaire about what mood type you are http://www.moodcure.com/Questionnaire.html and then look at what chemical imbalance is likely http://www.moodcure.com/false.html. It's kind of interesting. I don't think I'll buy the book but Amazon will allow you to look at certain pages with their "look inside the book" feature or you could go spend a couple hours at your local bookstore like bleauberry did.
I qualified for both "The Dark Cloud of Depression" and "The Blahs" which apparently means I have an imbalance of serotonin and catecholamines (dopamine and norepinephrine), so that just about covers everything :-). If I had to pick one that was standing out, though, I would pick the blahs/norepinephrine/dopamine as the target.
Anyway, I didn't mean to steal your thunder bleauberry-- I just found it interesting and I thought some others might too...
Posted by willey on January 1, 2010, at 2:44:29
In reply to Julia Ross- mood types/chemicals, posted by inanimate peanut on December 31, 2009, at 22:44:25
i studied pharmcology ten years now,learning the gaba sites,a,b the dopamine receptor typs,so ,so ,on,and i promise u no book is gonna tell you even close the whats going on,the truth is their is no testing for imbalances,so to humour the theory of one lets say u use a ssri to treat one,ok so when r u "balanced" wouldent going on past the balance and incresing serotonin to unknown levels be dangerous?Shouldent testing be done to lower the dose then or control the increase of serontion.
But it isnt,two thins are,chances are the chemical imbalances are simply END RESULTS of the bigger problem behind the story.
Increasing KNOWN feel good chemicals is the same process to which street drugs work,they increase a well known feel good chemical based on its ability to produce a effect,NOT because its believed to be "imbalanced"
I had a GREAT study and im looking through my drive for it that showe in the brain of a depressed to a non depressed findings showed at the least,
-- Numerous nuero chemicals were off balance,there were no specific ones.Rather an abundant of imbalances.
--- A increased ratio of excitatory aminos (the precruros to the chemicals) to inhibtaroy ones.
--- A important differance in grey brain matter,something i dont know about,but they stressed this finding.
-- Over heated and active parts of the brain in the depressed.
--- A huge imbalance of basic nutrients in the depressed person.
So what this says to me,actualy makes sense,which is we dont know what really is causing the problem,but we know its end result is a abundant defieacny in numerous important brain compounds.
Remember hearing on the radio once a dr. stating he believes he has an idea where depression starts,he said its near the laughter producing part of the brain,a part we can not get to to study.
I dont know,but i promise and im not addressing u at all,neighter was this post,but rather in genreal stating that what we know about neurotransmitters are absurdly weak compared to what chemisct actualy know and how the brain works,if u read the right articles u will be blown away at how complex the drugs we take work on the brain,way beyone what most of us are capable of chatting here about.
My old doc,who i miss dearly,laughed once as she gave me the drug insert and said,"here your the only patient who asks to read these so i know to give it lol"
You seem very confused about parnate,however i think you might think theres info on it that u can learn when in fact the actual pharmcology of parnate is amazing and the best sites to prob read tis are atricles on biopsyhatryWish everyone well on there fresh new years start !!!
Posted by janejane on January 1, 2010, at 6:05:44
In reply to Julia Ross- mood types/chemicals, posted by inanimate peanut on December 31, 2009, at 22:44:25
D'oh! I answered your earlier post about Julia Ross before discovering that you already found her. Aside from identifying which neurotransmitters you might be lacking, her book also talks about other possible causes of depression that I think people often overlook. So if you think you might have thyroid problems, for instance, you might want to look at that section too. (By the way, I also like the look inside the book feature at amazon and use it a lot. Google books is good for that too.)
If you found the Ross book interesting, you might also want to browse through "The Ultramind Solution" by Mark Harmon. (Another book with a title that turned me off, but which actually contained a ton of interesting stuff.) If you like quizzes, there are a whole bunch in that one. In addition to the neurotransmitters, there are ones for methylation, inflammation, heavy metal toxicity, adrenals, thyroid, sex hormones, hypoglycemia, vitamin D, magnesium, zinc, fatty acids, I can't remember what else.
Posted by inanimate peanut on January 1, 2010, at 11:55:58
In reply to Re: Julia Ross- mood types/chemicals, posted by willey on January 1, 2010, at 2:44:29
I'm just trying to find anything that will help me figure out which neurotransmitters to target to bring myself up to normal. You're right that I probably would have to have a full course on psychopharmacology to understand where deficits may be and which drugs do what to counter them. I'm really just wishing something would give me a magic formula for "you need to find a drug that would increase x and decrease x, etc" I'll read more of the stuff you've posted on how Parnate's working, but however it's working, it's not working hard enough. I'm on 100mg now and nothing new except increased hypotension.
Posted by Phillipa on January 1, 2010, at 12:23:33
In reply to Re: Julia Ross- mood types/chemicals, posted by inanimate peanut on January 1, 2010, at 11:55:58
I still feel the endocrine system is related to so many mental and body disorders. Phillipa
Posted by manic666 on January 1, 2010, at 12:53:41
In reply to Re: Julia Ross- mood types/chemicals » inanimate peanut, posted by Phillipa on January 1, 2010, at 12:23:33
when i started on the med trail, first i had a brain scan. then a thyriod test ,that was out a bit so have meds,loads of blood tests , found colesterol. so that things physical ruled out. so my diagnosis was im a total nut job,i could read any mental illness issue an find at least one symtom,,.So far i have 2,000,000 things wrong with me acording to what a read.Whatever some eminent genius tell you another will say different.its b*llsh*t an it always comes from people who have never been mentally ill.
Posted by willey on January 1, 2010, at 14:54:41
In reply to Re: Julia Ross- mood types/chemicals, posted by inanimate peanut on January 1, 2010, at 11:55:58
I dident say it to insult u by the way,i include myself in the comment,we learn at best basic pharmcology sites,i.e dopamine rectoper sites,their effect,gaba,and so on,so we prob know a lot ,LOT more then the average person and a hella lot more then docs will believe.
But true chemistry of the brain from people who work on it,yuck can speak on it with terms that would make most of us dizzy,i wish also there was a macig pill,wish u well.
Posted by bleauberry on January 1, 2010, at 17:44:34
In reply to Julia Ross- mood types/chemicals, posted by inanimate peanut on December 31, 2009, at 22:44:25
I think it goes without saying that all matters having to do with the brain are far beyond the comprehension of man at this time of history. Even our most advanced knowledge is probably only 1/1000th of what there is. There is a saying that goes something like this "the more we learn the more we realize we don't know".
Julia Ross claims good successes in her practice. But of course, we aren't there so we can't confirm or deny that. And we don't know the ratio of successes to failures. She does say some patients need meds, those cases being more complicated than a mere shortage of neurotransmitters.
All that said, I really like the attempt to organize the limited knowledge we do have into a usable protocol.
The depression types that she describes make sense to me. I mean, win or lose, we need a starting point and we need some kind of a roadmap. She offers that. I like that better than the average mainstreet pdco who is operating on a more one-size-fits-all protocol.
I like that her protocol gives the patient a chance to explore in short time if they do indeed have a chemical deficiency, and if so, which one. Many patients can probably avoid ever entering the journey of psychiatry by doing that. Others would have the option of moving into psychiatry when the basics fail.
The drugs do a whole lot more than merely increase serotonin or block a receptor or whatever. One study I saw showed how 30+ genes were turned on or up by Zyprexa and 30+ genes were turned down or off. That is completely beyond and in addition to everything we know about D2/D3 antagonism, 5HTC antagonism, and such. I'm sure all of our psych meds have similar crosstalk with genetic coding, enzymes, hormones, and things we haven't even put our finger on yet.
So obviously, things aint that simple. But I do like Julia Ross's approach as a starting point and hopefully an ending point. Many people who never made it to pbabble were fully restored on the supplements Julia Ross prescribes, and thus we'll never see them at pbabble.
Posted by janejane on January 2, 2010, at 6:00:30
In reply to Re: Julia Ross- mood types/chemicals, posted by inanimate peanut on January 1, 2010, at 11:55:58
For anyone who might be interested, another neurotransmitter quiz:
http://www.pintochiropractic.com/php/sec1a.php
This one comes from Eric Braverman, an expert on amino acids - the stuff our bodies use to make neurotransmitters. (The link actually goes to a third party, but I used it since it will calculate your scores for you, which is handy.) It's a pretty long questionnaire, and I'm not sure some of the items are phrased well, but it might be fun to see whether the results agree with the others. I think some of the things he asks about are pretty interesting.
Ross cites Braverman in her book, by the way. I also noticed that her approach appears to borrow heavily from the work of Joan Matthews-Larson, whose book on depression ("Depression Free Naturally") is really good too. (At some points, Ross pretty much tells you to to go out and read the Matthews-Larson book because it expands on certain ideas more.)
One minor annoyance about the Matthews-Larson book is the way she promotes her clinic and supplements. In some ways, I don't blame her too much since she was pretty much a pioneer when she started and so she was probably one of the only trusted sources she knew of (although there were a few others like Priscilla Slagle, and I guess Carl Pfeiffer too, doing similar stuff).
Posted by manic666 on January 2, 2010, at 6:11:18
In reply to Re: Julia Ross- mood types/chemicals, posted by willey on January 1, 2010, at 14:54:41
This is the end of the thread.
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