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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 54. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Phillipa on December 27, 2009, at 19:10:50
Picked this up on another board and was surpised when clicking on stablon to see it's an SSE and that it virtually works the opposite way of SSRI's and is in moderate range of stimulating to sedating. Is this true? Phillipa
[xxx]
Posted by kaylabear on December 27, 2009, at 19:34:18
In reply to Are These Meds For Real? Ad's????, posted by Phillipa on December 27, 2009, at 19:10:50
Well how is this NY psychiatrist able to prescribe it to his patients, but the rest of us here in the US can't get it?Anyone know?
i'd really like to try this med
New York psychiatrist Richard Brown MD, one of the most famous psychiatrists in the US, has reported encouraging results using Stablon with his patients. Dr Brown found that it does not cause sexual dysfunction or weight gain, and can help across a range of depressive conditions from anxiety to serious depression. Citing the last 20 patients he had treated with the drug, he found that 15 had experienced good responses with virtually no side effects.
Posted by inanimate peanut on December 27, 2009, at 20:06:10
In reply to Re: Are These Meds For Real? Ad's???? » Phillipa, posted by kaylabear on December 27, 2009, at 19:34:18
It says it may interfere with MAOIs, but doesn't say it absolutely does. Maybe we have a chance of a drug that can be used with MAOIs? Can somebody who knows about the psychopharmacology of the 2 drugs comment on how they would interact?
Posted by Phillipa on December 27, 2009, at 20:24:17
In reply to Re: Are These Meds For Real? Ad's????, posted by inanimate peanut on December 27, 2009, at 20:06:10
Let's hope we get lots of responses. Want to check out the other meds on the link. Phillipa
Posted by KaylaBear on December 27, 2009, at 20:45:34
In reply to Are These Meds For Real? Ad's????, posted by Phillipa on December 27, 2009, at 19:10:50
I'm glad you posted this Phillipa - thank you. I researched this doctors background, Richard Brown. apparantly, he is a psychopharmacologist whose wife, a psychoanalyst/psychiatrist-had suffered Lyme disease for 9 some years.
Her name is Dr. Patricia Gerbarg.
http://www.haveahealthymind.com/radio_interviews.html
She also did extensive research on Rhodiola and swears by it-that it helped her recover from Lyme after her long term antibiotic treatment. The quality of the herb is very important, according to her. Its really worth checking into for all those unresponsive to psychotropics, especially if you live in a high lyme area. She did say those with bipolar may have trouble, due to its activation.
http://www.lymeinfo.net/neuropsych.html
According to her, though her and her husband teach at Columbia & NY medical schools, its difficult to get any studies funded without pharmaceutical dollars and so its difficult to get through to the medical establishment. There has been a lot of research in Russia. So its not as if the problem does not exist, its that we are not being diagnosed or treated.
Don't give up in treatment, despite many lyme patients are initially treated as hypochondriacs. Evens as a MD herself, she had trouble getting treatment and diagnosed.
Perhaps just some more tools for our psychiatric toolboxes.
Posted by Phillipa on December 27, 2009, at 21:57:40
In reply to Re: Are These Meds For Real? Ad's????, posted by KaylaBear on December 27, 2009, at 20:45:34
Great links thanks Phillipa
Posted by willey on December 27, 2009, at 21:58:01
In reply to Are These Meds For Real? Ad's????, posted by Phillipa on December 27, 2009, at 19:10:50
Very good find phillipa,and yess the drug stablon is absolutly real,and is highly regarded,it is a serontion drug however acts quite different then ssris.
See im glad you posted this,more people need to realize that the u.s is not the only place treating depression,but instead other countries also introduce their own medications some of which are quite novel.
I dont want to be a conspiracist and wonder if the fda has made it harder to be aware of this,so i wont.
But again there many many non u.s based meds,which in turn means a whole new door of options for people at dead ends,ive always hope the group came to this,and i still hope it does.
I will do my part now,first on your mentioned med,it is real,and it is as real as prozac and not some crazy fad drug.here is its info,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tianeptine
Here is a highly stacked page listing first most meds u.s and out,notice stablon is there as part of a drug class SSRE which i had never heard of prior.Also the links are incredable on top.
Also a side fact,there is a drug called olmifon,it is the parent drug of modfanil,it is a mild stimulant and anti depressant as modfanil but again its the parent drug.Currently it can be bouth for approx 30-40 dollers as it is a drug that is non prescription.
Now the drug has entered us territory,is now in clinical trials,will be released under a totaly different brand name,and what i see happening frm there is the u.s verision will of course be like ten times the cost,the non u.s version will suddenly disappear from obtainment,and the u.s will introduce this new drug and pretty new name and the crime of a stolen cheap alternative drugs murder will never be known.
Posted by willey on December 27, 2009, at 22:03:40
In reply to Re: Are These Meds For Real? Ad's????, posted by willey on December 27, 2009, at 21:58:01
oops forgot the link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_antidepressants
Posted by inanimate peanut on December 27, 2009, at 22:37:58
In reply to Are These Meds For Real? Ad's????, posted by Phillipa on December 27, 2009, at 19:10:50
There was a whole string a while back under the generic name for the drug- you may want to look back at it under http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20080617/msgs/835336.html.
Posted by KaylaBear on December 27, 2009, at 23:27:29
In reply to Are These Meds For Real? Ad's????, posted by Phillipa on December 27, 2009, at 19:10:50
Anyone know where we can get this med - like the facility in New York mentioned in the article? Or is this only being used in research studies in the States?
Posted by floatingbridge on December 28, 2009, at 0:07:00
In reply to Are These Meds For Real? Ad's????, posted by Phillipa on December 27, 2009, at 19:10:50
Hi all,
I seem to get very 'stupifying' reactions to ssri's and even snri's. Might this be different in this case w/ an seri? (Is that the proper acronym?)
I'm off to Google it some more. I read a reference to possible pain amelioration as welll.
An interesting thread--
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Posted by willey on December 28, 2009, at 9:56:28
In reply to stablon question » Phillipa, posted by floatingbridge on December 28, 2009, at 0:07:00
Heres what i think,i believe it all comes down to the effectiveness of the med to the individual.For example if a drug,be it a ssri ,snri,,ssre, and so on doesent not work for the person,chances or the person along with not getting a benifit might adapt some cognitive drawbacks.
The same way if a med happens to work for someone,and they begin to feel better,its likly as they become more like themselves cognitive improvments are also bound to increase.
So in short usualy its not the med directly,but the impact of the meds actions on the person.
Aside from that,there are meds which fit in between,some meds are labled to be somewhat brain numbing,kinda stuck on stupid feel just by its properties,a famous one for this would be probuably topamax nick named DopamaxAs well as vice versa there are tons of medications,nutrients,herbs etc that are not primary intended to treat depression etc,however instead have the sole purpose of just enhancing cognitive functions,that are call group wise "smart drugs and nutrients"
They are studied and used for cognitive ehnacment due to agining,specific jobs,add on the mind dulling meds to treat that side effect,and just over all brain power.
However as i stated,most meds for depression mostly aim at mood alteration opposed to ones that aim at smarts,and makes sense the med that works and helps will likly again increase your cogntive ability as well.
Posted by highhatsize on December 28, 2009, at 14:20:46
In reply to Are These Meds For Real? Ad's????, posted by Phillipa on December 27, 2009, at 19:10:50
The med can be ordered for delivery to the US from the [xxx] site in the first post on this thread.
It is paradoxical that an anti-depressant having the opposite effect of the SSRIs would be helpful, but that only shows that we still don't really know why any of them work. I read that when one is euphorically in love, one's serotonin level is sharply reduced. Again, a condition that seems to contradict the reasoning for the effectiveness of SSRIs
Posted by floatingbridge on December 28, 2009, at 14:38:47
In reply to Re: Are These Meds For Real? Ad's????, posted by highhatsize on December 28, 2009, at 14:20:46
Thanks highhatsize,
I'll look at that site. I've read about it last night and am intrigued. So much we Don:t know. I have an image of a researcher running around w/ a key trying to find what door(s) it will open.
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Posted by willey on December 28, 2009, at 16:21:42
In reply to Re: Are These Meds For Real? Ad's????, posted by highhatsize on December 28, 2009, at 14:20:46
You cant list sources,so ill say this,before using [xxx] who i have extensive experiance with,truly try to use ur search engine to see if its obtainable else where,
[xxx] is the most EXPENSIVE place to order supplemtns meds etc,
[xxx] has the worst lentgh period of delivery i have known,i used them once and never did again.There are lots of identical type of sites all who would be better then [xxx].
All i can say good about [xxx] is they are reputable and safe.
Posted by bleauberry on December 28, 2009, at 18:47:32
In reply to Are These Meds For Real? Ad's????, posted by Phillipa on December 27, 2009, at 19:10:50
Stablon is one of the popular overseas ADs that people mailorder. Lots of people here at pbabble have tried it. Including me. I still have boxes of it unused.
I found it, well, hard to describe. I felt kind of calm and slightly dazed. I wasn't on it long enough. I have a skin condition that is easily flared by anything that stimulates dopamine/NE, and it flared up badly on Stablon. So if anyone is wondering whether it has a direct effect on DA/NE, yes it does.
The serotonin reuptake enhancer thing is of not much usefulness. Theory. The drug happens to have multiple functions, many of which are not related to things we normally think about with psychiatric drugs. They all just happen to benefit depression in ways that American meds don't look at. I suspect if it really does speed up the reuptake of serotonin, then what that does is cause the body to make more serotonin and to circulate it faster. Which would be good for mood.
In the last couple years I think the general finding on pbabblers who have used Stablon would be something similar to this:
Mild antidepressant, probably not enough for severe depression in most people. Mileage varies of course. Generally speaking.
Either somewhat calming or somewhat stimulating in the early weeks, transforming to overstimulation over months.
Not much in the way of side effects, at least when you compare it to other ADs. I think the most common thing I remember mentioned was some initital stimulation/insomnia when starting.
Easily ordered from overseas.
It was at the [xxx] website I first discovered my favorite AD of the planet Milnacipran. Now if someone wants a real AD, I would look at that before Stablon.
Posted by Phillipa on December 28, 2009, at 19:20:21
In reply to Re: Are These Meds For Real? Ad's????, posted by inanimate peanut on December 27, 2009, at 22:37:58
Peanut thanks for that link. Oh the med is available. Sounds like good for dysphoria and anxiety that isn't really anxiety anymore if that makes sense? I think I like the med profile. More research for sure. Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on December 28, 2009, at 19:28:00
In reply to stablon question » Phillipa, posted by floatingbridge on December 28, 2009, at 0:07:00
Fb it sounded that way to me hence why posted the link. Love Phillipa
Posted by 2nd xylophone on December 28, 2009, at 19:38:48
In reply to Are These Meds For Real? Ad's????, posted by Phillipa on December 27, 2009, at 19:10:50
> Picked this up on another board and was surpised when clicking on stablon to see it's an SSE and that it virtually works the opposite way of SSRI's and is in moderate range of stimulating to sedating. Is this true? Phillipa
>[-----------]
Guideline
Please don't use this site to exchange information that could be used to import into the US:
prescription medication without a prescription or
medication that hasn't been approved by the US Food and Drug Administration.
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 31, 2009, at 18:03:58
In reply to Re: Are These Meds For Real? Ad's???? » Phillipa, posted by 2nd xylophone on December 28, 2009, at 19:38:48
> Guideline
>
> Please don't use this site to exchange information that could be used to import into the US:
>
> prescription medication without a prescription or
> medication that hasn't been approved by the US Food and Drug Administration.I appreciate attention to the guidelines, but I'd like to redirect follow-ups regarding them to Psycho-Babble Administration. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20091103/msgs/931343.html
That's a different thread, so if you'd like to be notified by email of follow-ups to it, you'll need to request that there.
Please feel free to continue to discuss the pros and cons of the medication (as opposed to how to obtain it). Thanks,
Bob
Posted by casse on January 1, 2010, at 13:04:10
In reply to Re: Are These Meds For Real? Ad's???? » inanimate peanut, posted by Phillipa on December 28, 2009, at 19:20:21
I started using Stablon this morning at half of a 12.5 mg tablet.
I always wake up with anxiety and a sense of impending doom and the physical symptoms that go with it. Butterflies in stomach, tightness in chest, feeling like my esophagus is being squeezed and detached feeling in legs, left arm and left side of torso. I get overwhelmed at the prospect of simple tasks and by mid-day I am exhausted without doing much of anything. I feel that this anxiety is what triggers depression for me. I don't know what type of depression I'm dx'd with, can't get a straight answer from my pdoc
( who I finally fired this week after dancing with him for a year). I have had some manic type behavior in the past that seems to be triggered by stress. But lately I've just been extremely low, lethargic, unable to feel pleasure.I quit using opiates for pain 8 months ago, and have experienced lows I didn't know were possible since then, but I'm inclined to think I've had enough time to recover from the damage done by the pain meds. I think it's lazy to blame withdrawl for a patient being unresponsive to SSRI's. I couldn't take them before I ever took an opiate either. They' have always made me "wig out", I'd get agitated, reckless, angry, irresponsible, and feel extremely detached from myself. I've had enough. That's when Stablon came in.
About an hour after taking the Stablon I felt calm and relaxed. I was able to think about an overwhelming task I've been procrastinating about without getting anxious. It's been about 4-1/2 hours and I still feel good. I cooked Chicken Marsala from scratch for lunch. I rarely cook anymore! And I don't feel low. I still don't feel any pleasure, but I'm encouraged.
I know it's early to tell if this is going to help me, but I'm so relieved not to feel the horrible side effects that SSRI's cause. We'll see if it affects my sleep. I am also taking 50 mg Trazodone nightly and Low Dose Naltrexone .125 mg EOD.
I've been banging my head against a wall for 13 years trying to find something that works. Therapy, counseling, medication, meditation, eft, etps, and the only thing I can say that has done me absolutely no good is the medications I've taken. It's not the Dr.s fault they don't know all the possible medications and they can't prescribe anything not FDA approved in the USA. But I'm free to travel anywhere I can afford to and get medical treatment there. If this drug proves to work for me and the only way I can get it is to move to another country...that's what I'll do.
Posted by highhatsize on January 1, 2010, at 14:19:19
In reply to Re: Are These Meds For Real? Ad's????, posted by casse on January 1, 2010, at 13:04:10
HOO-rah!
Keep us updated, please.
Posted by Phillipa on January 1, 2010, at 20:53:53
In reply to Re: Are These Meds For Real? Ad's???? » casse, posted by highhatsize on January 1, 2010, at 14:19:19
That is wonderful and truly inspiring. Congrats Phillipa
Posted by casse on January 4, 2010, at 17:32:23
In reply to Re: Are These Meds For Real? Ad's????, posted by Phillipa on January 1, 2010, at 20:53:53
Today makes my 4th day with Stablon. So far it's really helped, especially with the physical symptoms of anxiety. I was concerned that it might aggrivate anxiety because I'm very sensitive to stimulants ( even decaf coffee ), but it hasn't caused nervousness or jitters. It's definitely stimulating, but in a gentle way at the dose I'm taking. I'm still only taking 12.5 mgs a day split into 2 doses. I also salivate more and find myself swallowing more frequently than usual and my appetite is blunted somewhat.
I have had a slight headache for the first couple of hours after taking it a couple of times, but nothing like other ADs have caused. If I wait too long between doses I start to feel all of the physical symptoms return, but not as much in the evening as at mid-day, and with less intensity today as on the first day.
I have been waking up a couple of times a night, but am able to go back to sleep. I have continued taking 3mg. melatonin, an herbal sleep enhancement blend, and 50 mg of Trazodone every night at bedtime. Also LDN every other night. LDN is not likely to be causing the sleep disturbance, I've been using it since June and it has only caused vivid dreams. So I feel confident it's the stablon.
I have made sure to take my last dose of Stablon before 4 PM to hopefully avoid more problems with sleep.
I had a very stressful morning and I've noticed that my mood is lower than it was the first couple of days, but no anxiety. So it's probably time to increase the dose. I'm still way below the recommended 37.5 mg a day. I wanted to take my time increasing dose to minimize side effects. Also, I want to take the lowest effective dose possible. I'm still being cautious.
Before starting on the Stablon I also had some very wierd symptoms that may or may not be from anxiety, namely lots of pressure in my pelvic region. The Stablon has eased that too. It also seems to have analgesic properties. I have chronic neck and back pain and that seems less bothersome on the stablon.
So far I'm still encouraged.
Posted by floatingbridge on January 4, 2010, at 19:52:25
In reply to Re: Are These Meds For Real? Ad's????, posted by casse on January 4, 2010, at 17:32:23
Casse,
Wow. Good luck--! May I ask what lead you to LDN--and how did you get it prescribed? And the Stablon--mail order?
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