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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by ralphrost2 on November 24, 2009, at 8:48:01
Hi fellows,
My experience with Hypericum has brought mixed results so far. I'm using it for 1.5 month, with good results for cognition and memory, as well as an improvement in the sense I feel more like myself. I was very flat before.
But I'm more antisocial now (I avoid talking and when someone speaks to me I think "oh no, please don't"). It feels like I have to put much effort/energy to interact with anybody. Anxiety and depression are back.
As I had some interesting improvement in areas I need for work I wouldn't like to quit this regimen right now. My doctor prescribed me Bupropion, but I'm hesitant to start such a powerful drug (I'm usually sensitive). Good sleeo is a problem lately.
Should I try to augument my Hypericum + Fish oil regimen with 5HTP or something? What could be combined safely in order to get some antidepressant effect?
Thank for any input
Ralph
Posted by bleauberry on November 24, 2009, at 17:48:58
In reply to Hypericum and more depression, posted by ralphrost2 on November 24, 2009, at 8:48:01
I have studied literally hundreds of posts in the archives of sjwinfo.org...a SJW forum. There are some distinct patterns and strategies that seem minor on the surface but work miracles over and over. Here they are:
1. Switch brands. Brands are as different from each other as SSRIs are different from each other. Common stories involve people trying 3 to 5 brands before finding the real good one. There is no way to predict whether that real good one will be a clinical quality one such as Kira, Perika, New Chapter; or whether it would be a cheap one like WalMart or RiteAid, or one of the quality brands on internet/health food stores. Personally I found Kira the more relaxing socializing one. But everyone is different. That is the key. To realize you are different, and not any single SJW brand is the same as another.
2. Experiment with dosing times. If you take it all in the morning, try it in the evening instead. And vica versa. If you spread it out through the day, try taking it all at once. Experimentation with dosing has made huge almost magical differences in a lot of people.
3. Lower the dose. I know that sounds strange. But it has been a common observation that when poopout happens or something just isn't right, lowering the dose works far more often than raising it. If somone for example is at 900mg per day and things are slipping, they should not go to 1200mg, but instead go to 750mg or 600mg, or switch brands.
Popular add-ons are custom sized very low doses of 5htp or tryptophan, tyrosine, and sometimes rhodiola rosea.
In popular books written by expert herbalist, they claim one of the best herbs to partner with SJW is Lemon Balm. It is said to be a synergistic combo where the sum is greater than the parts added. Lemon Balm by itself is a relaxing herb.
I would not abandon SJW for a pharmaceutical drug unless all of the above had been exhausted. is a personal choice that comes with a price. There is no more of a likelihood that a pharm drug will help more than SJW will. Equal odds. The pharm drugs almost for sure though will come with more side effects and unforeseen problems.
> Hi fellows,
>
> My experience with Hypericum has brought mixed results so far. I'm using it for 1.5 month, with good results for cognition and memory, as well as an improvement in the sense I feel more like myself. I was very flat before.
>
> But I'm more antisocial now (I avoid talking and when someone speaks to me I think "oh no, please don't"). It feels like I have to put much effort/energy to interact with anybody. Anxiety and depression are back.
>
> As I had some interesting improvement in areas I need for work I wouldn't like to quit this regimen right now. My doctor prescribed me Bupropion, but I'm hesitant to start such a powerful drug (I'm usually sensitive). Good sleeo is a problem lately.
>
> Should I try to augument my Hypericum + Fish oil regimen with 5HTP or something? What could be combined safely in order to get some antidepressant effect?
>
> Thank for any input
>
> Ralph
Posted by ralphrost2 on November 24, 2009, at 20:04:15
In reply to Re: Hypericum and more depression, posted by bleauberry on November 24, 2009, at 17:48:58
Posted by ralphrost2 on November 24, 2009, at 20:05:28
In reply to Re: Hypericum and more depression, posted by bleauberry on November 24, 2009, at 17:48:58
bleauberry,
thanks so much for your good ideas. I'll make some experimentation.
Funny thing is that I'm on 300 mg, which is a pretty low dose. I tried up to 900 mg and that didn't feel right. I personally prefer to combine low dose of several things rather to use a high dose of a single substance. Let's see what happens.
Posted by linkadge on November 24, 2009, at 20:47:45
In reply to Re: Hypericum and more depression, posted by bleauberry on November 24, 2009, at 17:48:58
Depending on the dose, you may want to lower it a little. I would say that omega-3 is a good idea. These have definately helped my social withdrawl (so long as the dose doesn't get too high for me).
Linkadge
Posted by morganator on November 24, 2009, at 22:39:20
In reply to Re: Hypericum and more depression, posted by linkadge on November 24, 2009, at 20:47:45
I think it is normal to not feel right in the first month of any activating antidepressant. This should go away after a few weeks. Maybe it would be a good idea to go up some and if you feel slightly uncomfortable you can wait and see if it goes away. Then you may find yourself feeling much better after a month or so.
I would recommend trying SJW at a higher dose than mixing in something like 5htp. I don't think these two are safe to combine anyway.
Fish oil is always a great idea. Try to get fish oil with high EPA and try taking anywhere from 1 to 2 grams EPA/DHA per day.
Good luck
Posted by bleauberry on November 25, 2009, at 14:08:41
In reply to Re: Hypericum and more depression » bleauberry, posted by ralphrost2 on November 24, 2009, at 20:05:28
300mg is on the low end. So things to consider would be:
1. Switch brands. For a more calming clinical version, I favor Kira.
2. Play with dosing times.
3. Increase dose by 75mg per step over a couple weeks up to 450mg. Stay there a couple weeks, with an eventual goal of 600mg. I say that because in that range seems to be the sweet spot many people find.
4. Time. The best success stories with SJW involved 2 to 4 months of waiting and endurance of rough times. Almost every one of those success stories would say that the time you have been on SJW is not meaningful, too short.
Something most people don't know about SJW is that it is a powerful antiviral, antibiotic, and antifungal. So if you have any unsuspected pathogens within, you will feel some weird things along the journey as they are suppressed and killed. True remission won't happen until they have been reduced low enough to remove symptoms. They are themselves a major cause of depression. Since it takes time for them to die off, that could be one of the reasons SJW takes a while to fully work.
> bleauberry,
>
> thanks so much for your good ideas. I'll make some experimentation.
>
> Funny thing is that I'm on 300 mg, which is a pretty low dose. I tried up to 900 mg and that didn't feel right. I personally prefer to combine low dose of several things rather to use a high dose of a single substance. Let's see what happens.
Posted by morganator on November 25, 2009, at 18:54:45
In reply to Re: Hypericum and more depression, posted by bleauberry on November 25, 2009, at 14:08:41
I am interested in getting off Zoloft and trying SJW. Do you think that SJW is powerful enough to be a replacement for SSRIs? Also, do you know how common it is to experience the sensitivity to sunlight that some experience on SJW?
Posted by JohnJ777 on November 26, 2009, at 20:48:27
In reply to Re: To Blueberry Hypericum and more depression » bleauberry, posted by morganator on November 25, 2009, at 18:54:45
> I am interested in getting off Zoloft and trying SJW. Do you think that SJW is powerful enough to be a replacement for SSRIs? Also, do you know how common it is to experience the sensitivity to sunlight that some experience on SJW?
I think that sunlight sensitivity thing is a very, very low % of people who have that problem. I know many people taking SJW, most of whom are switching over to rhodiola by the way, and NONE of them have had the infamous sunlight sensitivity that some websites and doctors tell you about.
Incidentally, I can't think of one reason why someone would prefer SJW for mild depression over Rhodiola. RR , as long as it isn't store bought but a good brand, is so much easier to go to work, and it has no drug interactions as SJW does. Think about it!
Posted by morganator on November 26, 2009, at 21:15:15
In reply to Re: To Blueberry Hypericum and more depression, posted by JohnJ777 on November 26, 2009, at 20:48:27
I am interested in SJW because it works similarly to the antidepressants that have worked for me in the past. Also, the half-life is about 24 hours so you should only have to dose it one time a day.
How long does Rhodiola last??? I just read you have to take it once in the morning and then another time in the afternoon. I have taken Rhodiola once before and it felt too stimulating. I need something that will work on both depression and axiety.
SJW is thought to inhibit the reuptake of serotonin, dopamine and norepinephrine. I'm used to being on SSRI's so I think SJW may be a good herb/drug to transition to.
This is the end of the thread.
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