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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Girlnterrupted78 on November 17, 2009, at 8:04:50
I did a google search, but somehow it's not helping much.
Since I'm vegan, I have to be creative when finding means of getting enough protein while avoiding meats and dairy.
I know that tofu is supposed to be "prohibited", or at least caution must be exercised when eating it, and yet I have gone through pounds and pounds of tofu while on Parnate, and have never had a reaction.
But I am not happy to rely simply on tofu for protein (I do have some other options like hemp powder, nuts, etc, which can't be consumed in such large amounts anyway) so I asked my doctor if I could try tempeh. Tempeh is supposed to be quite a lot more dangerous than tofu, because it is actual fermented soy, but it is supposed to be far superior to tofu in pretty much every way--flavor, protein content, and fiber content, so my doctor gave me the 'ok' for it, just as long as I had some nifedipine with me.
That was about 3 weeks ago, and I have happily eaten package after package of tempeh during the last three weeks without a trace of a reaction.
So now I'm thinking that instead of playing this game of blind trying prohibited foods, I'd like to actually have the tyramine content of several of such foods so that when I experiment, I have at least the knowledge of where they stand in terms of danger, and this would be by knowing their tyramine content.
So, just wondering if anyone knows whether there's a way to find the tyramine content of just about any food?
If anyone has any info on this, it'd be greatly appreciated.
Posted by emmanuel98 on November 17, 2009, at 9:09:23
In reply to Where can I find tyramine content in foods?, posted by Girlnterrupted78 on November 17, 2009, at 8:04:50
The tyramine content of most foods is not known and for other foods, it can vary widely. The best source I found on what to avoid with parnate was at wikipedia. Search MAOI's and there are two links at the bottom of that page with a pretty extensive list of potentially dangerous foods.
Posted by maxime on November 17, 2009, at 9:55:56
In reply to Where can I find tyramine content in foods?, posted by Girlnterrupted78 on November 17, 2009, at 8:04:50
I once knew a site that listed the tyramine content of food but I haven't able to find it. I will look again though.
There is a list of foods to avoid here http://www.dr-bob.org/tips/maoi.html
You can have tofu but you can't have tempeh because it's fermented. Also, I don't know if you use soy sauce in stir frys, but that is off the list as well. What I use is called Bragg sauce.They have a website you can check to see what the product looks like. It doesn't give me any reaction at all.
I will continue to look for that site for you.
Posted by maxime on November 17, 2009, at 10:03:08
In reply to Where can I find tyramine content in foods?, posted by Girlnterrupted78 on November 17, 2009, at 8:04:50
Here is another good resource, but doesn't list the amount of tyramine.
http://www.ehow.com/about_5380696_foods-containing-tyramine.html
I am vegan as well and it is hard to be creative. If you have a question about a food you are unsure of, please ask. I've only ever had one hypertensive reaction before and that was from soy sauce. I didn't have to go to the hospital, I just took some Thorazine to bring down my blood pressure.
It's driving me nuts that I can't find that web site for you!
Posted by Phillipa on November 17, 2009, at 10:33:56
In reply to Re: Where can I find tyramine content in foods? » Girlnterrupted78, posted by maxime on November 17, 2009, at 10:03:08
Wasn't there a babbler Elizabeth? who listed an extensived food list? Phillipa
Posted by maxime on November 17, 2009, at 11:24:30
In reply to Re: Where can I find tyramine content in foods? » Girlnterrupted78, posted by maxime on November 17, 2009, at 10:03:08
http://www.mc.vanderbilt.edu/neurology/Tyramine%20Menu%20Book%2006227101.pdf
Posted by maxime on November 17, 2009, at 11:27:37
In reply to Found it!, posted by maxime on November 17, 2009, at 11:24:30
Posted by tensor on November 17, 2009, at 11:31:23
In reply to Found it!, posted by maxime on November 17, 2009, at 11:24:30
Posted by Girlnterrupted78 on November 18, 2009, at 15:57:26
In reply to Found it!, posted by maxime on November 17, 2009, at 11:24:30
Thank you so much for that list, maxime. Actually, you won't believe it, but about 2 years ago (when I was on Nardil) somebody sent me that list in print and I might even have it somewhere in my apartment.
Even though the list is infinitely helpful, I was trying to see if there were a place where I could see specific amounts of tyramine.
For example, where it says "Miso soup, fermented soy bean, bean curd, tofu", the tyramine content says "unknown but considered to be high."
I find that puzzling. There was a time a few weeks ago (I was already on 80mgs of Parnate) where I was doing a low-carb diet, and I indulged in tofu more than ever! I had tofu with my salad, tofu with my soup, and even some soft-silken tofu with chocolate for dessert.. so I kept wondering how could that be possible.. zero reaction whatsoever.
Then I asked my doctor if I could have some tempeh, and he gave me the 'ok' for it as well. He just told me to be careful and have nifedipine handy. Well, the nifedipine was never necessary, and I've had tempeh everyday since--that was 3 weeks ago.
So if I could ever find out the actual tyramine content of both tofu and tempeh, then it would give me an idea of what amounts of tyramine are still ok and where is the limit.
The lists tend to prohibit so many foods, and it has the tendency of saying: "unknown but considered high" but the truth is that thoes "high" ones haven't been high enough for me, and I am sure I had quite a lot more than 2oz of tofu.
Tempeh, on the other hand, I usually only have 1oz at a time, but that's just because it has a lot more calories and fat than tofu, and I try to watch my caloric intake. But I already gave up tofu in favor of tempeh because a)Tempeh does taste quite a lot better and b)tempeh has like triple the amount of protein and fiber than tofu, so it's a better choice, even though I have to eat it in smaller amounts.
Thank you so much for that find, though, and I appreciate you took the time to look for it. I will bookmark it and have it as reference because I still tend to forget specific foods from time to time and have gotten so comfortable seeing how I can eat so many foods that are supposedly "prohibited" without a problem.
By the way, the other day I saw at the market some "soy gorgonzola" do you know if that somehow qualifies as high in tyramine? That puzzled me.. and they probably even have "soy Parmesan".
I have even eaten the tofurkey sausages without a problem, so in my experience, tofu doesn't seem to be all that high in tyramine.. but then again, when I say I indulged in it, I probably ate 4-5oz at the most. If I had gone overboard, who knows what would've happened.
Thanks again for the help.
> http://www.mc.vanderbilt.edu/neurology/Tyramine%20Menu%20Book%2006227101.pdf
Posted by maxime on November 18, 2009, at 21:12:01
In reply to Re: Found it! » maxime, posted by Girlnterrupted78 on November 18, 2009, at 15:57:26
You are lucky about the tempeh. I had some and I had a bit of a reaction ... not a huge, but enough to take some thorazine.
Every once in a while I try some of the foods in small amounts and see how I feel. I've been able to eat cheese with no ill effects. It's strange.
Take care.
Posted by Girlnterrupted78 on November 18, 2009, at 23:48:25
In reply to Re: Found it! » Girlnterrupted78, posted by maxime on November 18, 2009, at 21:12:01
How much tempeh did you eat?
Could you describe how the reaction felt like? I want to be able to recognize any signs of a reaction with enough time to be able to do something about it. Do you know how high was your blood pressure?
Have you tried eating tofu? I really do find it strange that it doesn't affect me.
I usually eat the one from Nasoya, the lite firm tofu (http://www.nasoya.com/nasoya/tofu_litefirm.html) and I tried the silken as well for dessert, (http://www.nasoya.com/nasoya/tofu_silken.html), and if I remember well, the dessert turned out so good that I ended up having a 2nd serving.
I also had tofu twice at a restaurant, which I know could be more dangerous because they aren't as careful as I would be about storage and freshness. I didn't have a reaction thankfully.
So who knows.. it's hard to tell what's going on, whether it's the tyramine amount, or the individual person. That's why I want so bad to find the exact amount of tyramine in foods, so I can have a little more control over this, which seems pretty random sometimes.
So if you could tell me about your reaction, every sign and symptom, and how much tempeh you ate (and what kind, by the way? I buy the lightlife:
http://www.lightlife.com/product_detail.jsp?p=tempeh_wildrice)
I would really appreciate it.Thanks again!
> You are lucky about the tempeh. I had some and I had a bit of a reaction ... not a huge, but enough to take some thorazine.
> Every once in a while I try some of the foods in small amounts and see how I feel. I've been able to eat cheese with no ill effects. It's strange.
> Take care.
Posted by Maxime on November 19, 2009, at 10:56:03
In reply to Re: Found it! » maxime, posted by Girlnterrupted78 on November 18, 2009, at 23:48:25
Tofu doesn't affect me either. I thought it was on the okay to eat list?
When I had the reaction I got a very, very bad headache at the base of the neck. That seems to be key that the headache is there (according to my pdoc). Overall I felt dizzy and nauseous and not like myself at all. My heart was racing. But seriously, the worse thing was the headache because I felt like I was going to have a stroke. It was that bad. I didn't go to the hospital. I just took my thorazine and within an hour I was alright.
I did have to go to the hospital after eating something with soy sauce. I ate it in error at a veggie only chinese restaurant. The headache was so bad that I passed out and my friend took me to the hospital. I know they took me right away but I don't know what med they gave me.
I also had a reaction to home made red wine. I had tried store bought red wine and I had no reaction. But this was home made and it seems to have made a different. Again I got the headache and the dizziness. I took the thorazine and within an hour I was fine. I didn't need to go to the hospital.
Posted by Maxime on November 19, 2009, at 11:00:14
In reply to Re: Found it! » Girlnterrupted78, posted by Maxime on November 19, 2009, at 10:56:03
PS: I really think it's okay to eat tofu because it's not aged or fermented. Soy milk is find also.
This is the end of the thread.
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