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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by southernsky on November 8, 2009, at 16:02:03
I'm not sure how strong this research is (mice!)or if will have any future effect for those of us wtith depression but the article says the study could lead to further research that may lead to a new direction in the development of AD drugs...and they also formed a new interdisciplinary center to study the link between the immune system and mental health - that is the best news I've heard in a while.
I wonder if this will also help those with chronic fatigue syndrome and fibromyalgia (the article doesn't mention this)? The symptoms seem to overlap greatly, and those illnesses are sometimes considered imaginery by doctors since in most cases, only a patients self reporting and ruling out other conditions supports those diagnosis. I used to frequent a forum on CFS and Fibro, where members report having been treated as hypochondriacs. Hope this helps that group too.
Best,
SS
"In the meantime, the study highlights IDO as a potential target for development of new antidepressant drugs.To reduce this barrier between the two fields of study, Kelley and Dantzer launched the Integrative Immunology and Behavior program at Illinois. It supports interdisciplinary research on how inflammatory processes in the immune system and brain influence behavior and mental health."
Full Article:
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Researchers report an enzyme found throughout the body and long suspected of playing a role in depression, is in fact essential to the onset of depressive symptoms sparked by chronic inflammation.University of Illinois researchers document their study online in the Journal of Immunology. The investigation is the first to identify the enzyme IDO (indoleamine 2,3 dioxygenase) as a molecular switch that induces depressive symptoms in some cases of chronic inflammation.
Doctors have known for decades that patients with chronic inflammation, such as that linked to coronary heart disease or rheumatoid arthritis, are more likely than others to become depressed. Some pro-inflammatory drugs, such as interferon-alpha, which is used to treat Hepatitis C and a cancer known as malignant melanoma, also induce symptoms of depression in a significant number of patients.
In the new study, mice were exposed to Bacille CalmetteGuérin (BCG), a vaccine used in many parts of the world to prevent tuberculosis. BCG produces low-grade, chronic inflammation in mice, which can be detected by measuring levels of certain immune system proteins, called inflammatory cytokines, in the blood and brain.
Mice exposed to BCG display the normal symptoms of illness (lack of appetite, reduced activity), but after these symptoms fade the mice continue to exhibit depressive-like behaviors that can be reversed with antidepressants, said animal sciences and pathology professors Keith Kelley and Robert Dantzer, who led the study.
Even after they recover from their sickness, the BCG-infected mice are much more passive than non-infected mice when in an inescapable situation. When placed in a bucket of water for a few minutes, for example, they struggle less to escape and spend more time floating passively, the researchers report.
The mice that were calling depressed give up more quickly. While physically able, the mice quit trying to escape, said animal sciences professor Jason OConnor, first author on the study.
But if you give them anti-depressants, the depressive-like behavior goes away, Kelley said. So the next question is, how can this be? Dantzer said. What is the biological molecular switch which makes them go from sickness to depression?
The researchers knew that infection causes immune cells to produce cytokines, signaling proteins that help the body fight infection. These proteins also activate IDO in the body and brain. IDO degrades the amino acid tryptophan, producing metabolites that affect animal and human behavior. Previous studies have found a strong correlation between an increase in these metabolites and the depressive symptoms seen in some patients.
An analysis of gene regulation in the mouse brains showed that exposure to BCG increased expression of IDO and two cytokines known to induce IDO: tumor necrosis factor-alpha and interferon-gamma.
Because IDO degrades tryptophan, which is the precursor of serotonin, a brain chemical known to positively influence mood, scientists have hypothesized that the depression seen in patients with inflammatory disease was due to a decrease in serotonin in the brain. But a check of serotonin in the brains of mice with depressive-like behavior showed otherwise, Dantzer said.
The brain is able to compensate for the decrease in tryptophan, he said.
To test whether IDO was essential to the depressive-like behaviors seen in mice, the researchers gave mice a drug that inhibits IDO and ran the experiment again. Just as before, the mice exposed to BCG exhibited typical sickness behavior (low appetite, reduced activity), from which they soon recovered.
But pretreatment with the IDO inhibitor eliminated the subsequent development of depressive-like behavior. Mice that had the IDO gene deleted were also completely resistant to the depressive-like behavior seen in normal mice exposed to BCG.
This is the first study to directly implicate IDO in depression related to chronic inflammation, Kelley said.
The researchers suspect that the metabolites produced when IDO degrades tryptophan are in some way promoting depression. More research will establish if that is true, they said.
In the meantime, the study highlights IDO as a potential target for development of new antidepressant drugs.
The study also demonstrates the robust link between the immune system and the nervous system, a connection often ignored by immunologists and neurologists, Kelley said.
To reduce this barrier between the two fields of study, Kelley and Dantzer launched the Integrative Immunology and Behavior program at Illinois. It supports interdisciplinary research on how inflammatory processes in the immune system and brain influence behavior and mental health.
For years, no one considered that an infection somewhere in the body could affect the brain, Kelley said.
But as (University of Texas immunologist) Ed Blalock said in 1984, the immune system is a sensory organ. The immune system is exquisitely adapted as a sensory system to see infectious agents. And it communicates that information to the brain.
Source: University of Illinois
http://psychcentral.com/news/2009/04/01/chronic-infection-may-spawn-depression/5079.html
Posted by southernsky on November 8, 2009, at 16:05:04
In reply to Chronic Infection May Spawn Depression (Article), posted by southernsky on November 8, 2009, at 16:02:03
Larry Hoover-are you still around? You used to post here all the time!
Interested in what you think about this - Mr. Scientist.
Wheverever you are, whatever you are doing.....I hope you are doing well.
Posted by Phillipa on November 8, 2009, at 18:45:11
In reply to Larry Hoover?, posted by southernsky on November 8, 2009, at 16:05:04
Just my feeling seems like one with arthritis or diseases of immune system would be depression. Just my opinion. And as far as I know chronic fatique and fibro are now recognized as true illnesses. Phillipa
Posted by Netch on November 9, 2009, at 6:51:08
In reply to Chronic Infection May Spawn Depression (Article), posted by southernsky on November 8, 2009, at 16:02:03
southernsky, thanx for the article.
I'm a total believer in an inflammatory hypothesis as the true etiology behind depression.
I don't just feel depressed, I feel a sickness within my whole body./Netch
Posted by bleauberry on November 9, 2009, at 16:10:27
In reply to Chronic Infection May Spawn Depression (Article), posted by southernsky on November 8, 2009, at 16:02:03
Chronic infection and depression? Gee is there an echo in here? Just kidding. I preach that all the time, so much so that people get irritated at me even suggesting the possibility.
Actually, to several thousand or maybe tens of thousands of current and post sufferers of CFS, FM, MS, and Lyme, it is no secret among them that when the cause of the inflammation is gone, or the immune system is rebalanced away from dysfunction towards normalcy, the depression eases away. Sometimes dramatically.
This might appear new, but is actually old news. It's just that the people who should already know it don't, and thus it appears as some new ground breaking discovery. Science is lagging behind what is happening on the clinical frontlines.
Posted by Phillipa on November 9, 2009, at 18:52:08
In reply to Re: Chronic Infection May Spawn Depression (Article), posted by bleauberry on November 9, 2009, at 16:10:27
BB you won't hear an argument from me on that. Love Phillipa
Posted by floatingbridge on November 10, 2009, at 19:23:06
In reply to Chronic Infection May Spawn Depression (Article), posted by southernsky on November 8, 2009, at 16:02:03
Thank you southernsky for your link. I've just had the door closed on me by my MD. He explained that people like me (with my condition: mental illness, depression) can expect compromised health. There's just nothing to do according to him. Felt he threw me on the junk heap. But that's not where I landed for long. Inflammation is big news these days, implicated in many diseases. I hope that someday soon, science makes more and more connections. I feel science is moving closer, at least in theory and it's leading edge. How long till it trickles down to treatments...? And then med schools for more savvy doctors?
fb
Posted by Netch on November 11, 2009, at 8:12:56
In reply to Re: Chronic Infection May Spawn Depression (Articl » southernsky, posted by floatingbridge on November 10, 2009, at 19:23:06
savvy doctors would be nice
/Netch
Posted by floatingbridge on November 11, 2009, at 15:24:40
In reply to Re: Chronic Infection May Spawn Depression (Articl » floatingbridge, posted by Netch on November 11, 2009, at 8:12:56
Posted by bleauberry on November 11, 2009, at 17:58:07
In reply to Re: Chronic Infection May Spawn Depression (Articl » southernsky, posted by floatingbridge on November 10, 2009, at 19:23:06
Have you ever seen the TV show Mystery Diagnosis? They are stories like yours, mine, and probably many of us here. That is, a doctor says there is nothing else he can do, you just have to live with it, and bye bye. But in the end, a doctor did know what was going on and how to treat it...it just meant finding that doctor. One or two visits is all it takes to judge the caliber of a doctor. Move on if they seem weak. There is a good one out there waiting.
We have to become our own advocates, because no one else will do it for us. I have come to believe that and will say it often. When treatment goes as planned, successful, there is no need for that. But when the road is rocky, it is absolutely imperative. In my strong opinion, that means including other areas of medicine along with psychiatry, not just psychiatry. Because the cause of the symptoms is probably outside of the psychiatrists knowledge. Without addressing all of the angles, any treatment is probably going to fall short.
Science. Yes, that is the way of the Western world. We are very strong on science. But there is so much we don't know, much more research to do, and it will take many decades or centuries.
In the meantime, the second largest medical system on the planet treats people from an experience point of view more than a science point of view. We can use that to our advantage. The miles do not need to be barriers to healing or knowledge or experience.
Inflammation may be big news these days in the Western world, but is old news in the East. They've been treating inflammation for hundreds and thousands of years with plants that are equal to or greater in efficacy than meds. Experience has shown what works. It will be American science that eventually explains how they work. But for now, they work and that's that, period. If someone has an inflammation concern, the cure is readily available. If they want to wait for science to explain why that cure works, it will probably be a long wait.
Not to cut the Eastern world short, there are actually literally hundreds of scientific research studies on the plants they use, in addition to the experience. They can tell us how plant XYX increases CD4 count, decreases a particular lymphocyte, prevents a certain cytokine, boosts infectious immunity yet suppresses autoimmunity simultaneously, reduces inflammation, analgesic, antioxidant, nervous system calming, and a more...all from one friggin plant.
Any single constituent of that plant would not likely provide the same effect. No for-profit pharm company will have any interest in marketing that plant, though they may try to duplicate its primary ingredients so as to get a patend and make millions. Meanwhile, it's already here and has been for eons. So while it would probably be a miraculous benefit for the right person, it will never happen as long as they only recruit the tools of their mainstreet psychiatrist.
> Thank you southernsky for your link. I've just had the door closed on me by my MD. He explained that people like me (with my condition: mental illness, depression) can expect compromised health. There's just nothing to do according to him. Felt he threw me on the junk heap. But that's not where I landed for long. Inflammation is big news these days, implicated in many diseases. I hope that someday soon, science makes more and more connections. I feel science is moving closer, at least in theory and it's leading edge. How long till it trickles down to treatments...? And then med schools for more savvy doctors?
>
> fb
Posted by Netch on November 13, 2009, at 9:44:39
In reply to Chronic Infection May Spawn Depression (Article), posted by southernsky on November 8, 2009, at 16:02:03
"Evidence exists of a link between IDO activity and mood. In serotonergic nerve terminals tryptophan is hydroxylated before conversion to serotonin (5HT). Lower levels of serotonin in the brain are associated with depressed mood. Tryptophan availability limits de novo synthesis of serotonin and tryptophan depletion has been associated with depressive symptoms in patients with remitted major depressive disorder, resulting in a disturbance of mood in subjects with a family history of affective illness.
Given the proposed role of IDO in maintaining pregnancy, the linkage between IDO activity and mood may be relevant to postpartum depression. Typically this phenomenon occurs within a few days after delivery until the tenth day postpartum. An association has been noted between Kyn/Trp ratio and the severity of depressive symptoms in the early puerperium, suggesting that an increased degradation of typtophan relates to the occurrence of postpartum blues. Conversely, a decrease in Kyn/Trp ratioes has been reported in women with stable mood after delivery.
Some evidence exists that inflammatory changes in the brain that may be associated with IDO1 expression are pathological features of both depression and dementia. Pathological changes have been associated with a reduction in the neuroprotective components of the kynurenine pathway (e.g. kynurenic acid) and an increase in the neurodegenerative components (e.g. 3-hydroxykynurenine acid and quinolinic acid). These changes are postulated to cause neuronal damage and predispose chronically depressed patients to dementia. In Alzheimer's patients, plasma Kyn/Trp ratioes have been observed to correlate with the degree of cognitive deficit. Also, immunohistochemical analysis suggests that IDO1 is abundant in the brains of Alzheimer's patients compared to controls. Similarly, relative elevations in Kyn/Trp ratio have been found in plasma from patients with Huntington's or Parkinson's disease compared to controls. Notably, depressive symptoms affect up to 50% of Alzheimer's patients, 41% of Huntington's patients, and 40% of Parkinson's patients.
Further support for a link between IDO1 elevation and depressed mood are found in patients with autoimmune diseases, where symptoms have been associated with increased tryptophan catabolism. Enhanced tryptophan degradation was found in systemic lupus erythromatosus, rheumatoid arthritis, sarcoidosis, and a mouse model of multiple sclerosis. It has also been noted that a higher proportion of patients infected with Hepatitis C virus (HCV) have lower serum tryptophan concentrations and depression relative to healthy volunteers."http://atlasgeneticsoncology.org/Genes/IDO1ID40973ch8p11.html
Posted by Hip on November 18, 2009, at 12:51:29
In reply to Re: Chronic Infection May Spawn Depression (Article) » southernsky, posted by Netch on November 9, 2009, at 6:51:08
Have a look at this site: http://chronicsorethroat.wordpress.com/
Posted by floatingbridge on November 18, 2009, at 15:59:50
In reply to Re: Chronic Infection May Spawn Depression (Articl, posted by Hip on November 18, 2009, at 12:51:29
Posted by Hip on November 18, 2009, at 20:52:20
In reply to Re: Chronic Infection May Spawn Depression (Articl » southernsky, posted by floatingbridge on November 10, 2009, at 19:23:06
It's a pleasure, floatingbridge, I hope that link helps.
The message of it is this:
From the latest medical research, it is turning out that not only are mild (or otherwise) mental disorders caused by infection of some sort, but probably the majority of diseases, physical or mental, are caused in this way. There is not 100% proof of this at this stage, just strong associations; but slowly, we are finding more and more indications that microbes are the prime causal culprits in most diseases.
This is very good news, as in a way, it means that our bodies are, in fact, far better than we first thought.
We are now realising that a body does not lapse into disease on its own (as many people still believe), but rather, our bodies only tend develop disease when attacked by a (usually hidden) microbial infection.
This is good news because if, in future, we manage to purge all these disease-causing microbes from our bodies, we stand to eliminate vast majority of human disease.
No more clinical depression, anxiety disorder, autism, Parkinson's schizophrenia, multiple sclerosis, heart disease, cancer, diabetes, etc.
At some point in the future, we will look back at all of these diseases, and they will seen like ancient history, like grim tales from those bad old days when we were unable to rid our bodies of disease-causing microbes.
Of course, right now, we are living in these grim times; but at least we are beginning to see the light.
http://chronicsorethroat.wordpress.com/
Posted by Phillipa on November 18, 2009, at 21:15:39
In reply to Re: Chronic Infection May Spawn Depression (Articl, posted by Hip on November 18, 2009, at 20:52:20
So at age 63 the failing at age 50 of thyroid and discovery of chronic lymes could have started this mess. And I still test positive western blot but docs won't treat? Say had enough antibiotics???? Phillipa
This is the end of the thread.
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