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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by willyeee on October 30, 2009, at 11:01:22
I am treatment resistent,im on a treatment resistent anti depressant,PARNATE,and had treatment resistment rage which caused me to be eventualy maced in my own home ,tackled,and kicked out.
My rage failed to respond to just about every mood stablizer out there,so with my girl we spent hours a night using special tactics in how we search to find a unconvetional mood stablizer.
Zonegran was it,...it affected gaba at the benzo level,had little interactions,and weight loss opposed to gain.
So we studied it a few days and i started its initial dose for mania of 100 mg,well visiting BACK HOME ! the first thing my father says to me at the table is....whatever it is ur doing u look really good today.
I also take it at night,it helps me sleep right away,and since it has a 3 day half life i dont have to worry if itll carry over till the next day in effect,also aside from stopping my constant rage cycling it also seems to have poteniated my parnate to work better,or perhaps my med is working better cause im not going into rage?
Anyone i was ready to give up,so just fyi make a search engine ur best friend,be creative in keywords,and spend more time in search over boards until you find something,this is how i have found any med i responded to.
Just to note,zonegran is officialy approved for seizures as are most mood stablizers....however its off label uses are in trials now for obesity,...nerve pain as well as migraines...and of course bipolar.Revolution heatlh is full of first hand user ratings.
ONE EXTREMLY important thing to note is u have to know if u have a sulfphur allergy,this is a must,allergies of it can result in little as a small rash to a case in which a young girl aquired internal 3RD DEGREE BURNS among many other aliments upon using it,even after telling the doc sulphur was her one allergy the "doc" blew her off saying its a very low amount.
Dose for mood starts low at 100 mg,and can actualy work there and stay however for hard cases a max of 300 mg has been sometimes used,this has a lot of cogntive side effects however.Im looking forward to going up to 200 mg but because of the 3 day have live its strongly recomened i wait 2 weeks which i am doing,but my mood is much more stable knock on wood,i love gaba lol !
Posted by Phillipa on October 30, 2009, at 12:47:13
In reply to Mood stablization, posted by willyeee on October 30, 2009, at 11:01:22
Willyee didn't know you were no longer living at home. Did you ever have rages in the past? I don't recall you mentioning them? Glad your're finding relief. Love Phillipa
Posted by willyeee on October 30, 2009, at 14:14:47
In reply to Re: Mood stablization » willyeee, posted by Phillipa on October 30, 2009, at 12:47:13
Yeah i had refused a few offers to leave with roomates due to the fact i dont like just anyone walking into my world and knowing more then they shoud about me,so i paid good rent and stayed at home.
The rages began slow,but non understanding by my mom leading to arguments fueled it daily,finaly after numerous visits i accidently shoved a cop a little who would not let me get to my shoes and i paid for it.
I never mentioned it becauseim a private person,not to say there is anything wrong with the opposite,but im not one to include normaly my external life here when speaking in posts,i assume most posters can assume if im doing bad on meds my externa life has to be suffering,to review details would prob be best on a therapy board,i personaly believe best therapy is from a close known friend over a therapist any day,and a lot cheaper too lol,thanks.
Posted by Phidippus on October 30, 2009, at 16:06:37
In reply to Mood stablization, posted by willyeee on October 30, 2009, at 11:01:22
> my mood is much more stable knock on wood,i love gaba lol !
Zonisamide blocks sodium channels and reduces voltage-dependent, transient inward currents (T-type Ca2+ currents), consequently stabilizing neuronal membranes and suppressing neuronal hypersynchronization. Zonisamide does not appear to potentiate the synaptic activity of GABA. Zonisamide binds to the GABA/benzodiazepine receptor ionophore complex in an allosteric fashion which does not produce changes in chloride flux. Zonisamide facilitates both dopaminergic and serotonergic neurotransmission. Zonegran also enhances the uptake of the excitatory neurotransmitter glutamate.
IN OTHER WORDS, Zonegran does a bunch of things and most likely helps stabilize mood through blockade of sodium channels and by facilitating seratonin transmission. Mania has been reported on ZOnegran as a consequence of increased dopaminergic transmission. By binding to GABA and facilitating glutamate reuptake, Zonegran might be exhibiting anxiolytic properties.
Where is your rage coming from? If you're on Parnate, then I doubt the rage is IED (intermittent explosive disorder)-this is treated with antidepressants and Lithium (have you ever been on Lithium?) which leaves me to think you are bipolar and the 'cycling' of rage is your mood cycling. Zonegran is WELL down the list of mood stabilizers and there others that may work better for you. Have you even ever tried an atypical antipsychotic?
Are you going into rages for no good reason or is it something you're thinking about?
P
Posted by willyeee on October 30, 2009, at 17:03:34
In reply to Re: Mood stablization » willyeee, posted by Phidippus on October 30, 2009, at 16:06:37
Um not sure what why you are recomending me to another med when im posting how well im doing.Also yess mania is a POSSABLE SIDE EFFECT of the drug,HOWEVER it is noted on the data sheet at a very low occurance.
On the opposite note,with a simple google of zonegran,bipolar there are tons upon tons of results which speak on how zonegran is considered a line of treatment in mania,IN FACT on wikipedia it states zonegran is also off labled for obesity...migraines....and bipolar,wikipedia zonegran and see for yourself.
So your comparing a low incidence of reported side effect,a very low incidence versus a huge amount of data,including tons of user ratings of "zonegran bipolar" on revoluiton health.
If you compared the data out there of zonegran induced mania to zonegran mood stablization the outcome for the latter would be overwhelming.Im actualy in shock that after my posting of how i personaly am responding to a med you can actualy post and tell me to change it based on a tiny percentage of side effect and in essence actualy telling me how i feel is quite offensive.
Especialy when the norm here is most posters including myself are hapy when a fellow babbler is doing well on a med.Im sorry but your advice to change my drug will fall on deaf ears,and please realise you have very little information out there backing your claim that zonegran is a med that induces mania,at the very least its an anti seizure med and would not be one if it did in fact induce psychosys.Sorry to the group for rambling on,im just very angry at the objective of this post.I believe the poster is very misinformed.
Posted by willyeee on October 30, 2009, at 17:27:18
In reply to Re: Mood stablization » willyeee, posted by Phidippus on October 30, 2009, at 16:06:37
You wrote
"Zonegran is WELL down the list of mood stabilizers "
Here is a link on user ratings concerning zonegran and bipolar.
http://www.revolutionhealth.com/drugs-treatments/rating/zonegran-for-bipolar-ii-disorder
Also fyi the info you posted on the med was nothing more then the basic data sheet info,which i also read,and the rage occurance was just among the small side effects listed in the under 10 percent range.Also i am very much AGANIST the use of anti psyc meds for mood stablization,td is a very serious side effect ,and anti psych meds in my view should be left for just that,they are extremly strong potent medications
Posted by linkadge on October 30, 2009, at 19:54:30
In reply to Re: Mood stablization » willyeee, posted by Phidippus on October 30, 2009, at 16:06:37
If you are having rage on parnate then there is a good chance you have some form of bipolar. The parnate could just be exaserbating this.
Linkadge
Posted by willyeee on October 30, 2009, at 21:00:57
In reply to Re: Mood stablization, posted by linkadge on October 30, 2009, at 19:54:30
> If you are having rage on parnate then there is a good chance you have some form of bipolar. The parnate could just be exaserbating this.
>
> LinkadgeSorry i might have missed posting that,i believe i am a rapid cycler which is why i was seeking a mood stablizer as well so your right on the money
Posted by Phillipa on October 30, 2009, at 21:32:55
In reply to Mood stablization, posted by willyeee on October 30, 2009, at 11:01:22
Willyee I'm glad your're aware that you are bipolar did your search include this information. Good that you discussed a bit of home life . I know your're private. Love Phillipa
Posted by willyeee on October 31, 2009, at 9:27:01
In reply to Re: Mood stablization » willyeee, posted by Phillipa on October 30, 2009, at 21:32:55
> Willyee I'm glad your're aware that you are bipolar did your search include this information. Good that you discussed a bit of home life . I know your're private. Love Phillipa
Thanks,but yess i wasnt bipolar or at least it was evident at the start,slowly i noticed symptoms of a specific form which is rapid cyclying.
I know a lot about depression,even more about maois,so this is what i mostly post on....im just myself going through the initial stages of bipolar so rather then post and speak i instead read many posts here and keep account of the info i read and learn more and more.
I believe my worsening of bipolar is simply my agining along with the disease,its only natural like a wart that over time itts growth will take on different looks and attriibutes,i learn a lot from many people here.
As for my private life,after learning for ten years the result of telling just anyone how you feel,i now feel my private life is a privalage i and everyone here owns and should treat like gold,letting only people who derserve it or can help in the same situation in on it.
THANKS
Posted by bulldog2 on October 31, 2009, at 10:12:49
In reply to Mood stablization, posted by willyeee on October 30, 2009, at 11:01:22
> I am treatment resistent,im on a treatment resistent anti depressant,PARNATE,and had treatment resistment rage which caused me to be eventualy maced in my own home ,tackled,and kicked out.
>
> My rage failed to respond to just about every mood stablizer out there,so with my girl we spent hours a night using special tactics in how we search to find a unconvetional mood stablizer.
>
> Zonegran was it,...it affected gaba at the benzo level,had little interactions,and weight loss opposed to gain.
>
> So we studied it a few days and i started its initial dose for mania of 100 mg,well visiting BACK HOME ! the first thing my father says to me at the table is....whatever it is ur doing u look really good today.
>
> I also take it at night,it helps me sleep right away,and since it has a 3 day half life i dont have to worry if itll carry over till the next day in effect,also aside from stopping my constant rage cycling it also seems to have poteniated my parnate to work better,or perhaps my med is working better cause im not going into rage?
>
>
> Anyone i was ready to give up,so just fyi make a search engine ur best friend,be creative in keywords,and spend more time in search over boards until you find something,this is how i have found any med i responded to.
>
>
> Just to note,zonegran is officialy approved for seizures as are most mood stablizers....however its off label uses are in trials now for obesity,...nerve pain as well as migraines...and of course bipolar.Revolution heatlh is full of first hand user ratings.
>
>
> ONE EXTREMLY important thing to note is u have to know if u have a sulfphur allergy,this is a must,allergies of it can result in little as a small rash to a case in which a young girl aquired internal 3RD DEGREE BURNS among many other aliments upon using it,even after telling the doc sulphur was her one allergy the "doc" blew her off saying its a very low amount.
>
>
> Dose for mood starts low at 100 mg,and can actualy work there and stay however for hard cases a max of 300 mg has been sometimes used,this has a lot of cogntive side effects however.
>
> Im looking forward to going up to 200 mg but because of the 3 day have live its strongly recomened i wait 2 weeks which i am doing,but my mood is much more stable knock on wood,i love gaba lol !Interesting I also have symptoms of bi polar II. I also have had rage episodes with family members. My p-doc has always concentrated on my depression and anxiety. Im currently on high dose neurontin (1200 mg two to three times a day) which currently cools me out. While I do no have rage episodes on neurontin I find I'm a lot more assertive. Generally submissive on neurontin I find I speak my mind and don't let people push me around.
Posted by willyeee on October 31, 2009, at 10:37:30
In reply to Re: Mood stablization, posted by bulldog2 on October 31, 2009, at 10:12:49
The recent i spent so long looking for a unconventional one when there are many well known ones is i never seem to respond to common meds,i.e depakote,tegatrol,lamictal,lithium,among others i could not handle,....nuerontion,gabentin was one i actualy liked and could handle,however the effective dose for anxiety was low but for rage it was very high and just overlapped my anit depressant effect of parnate in the day.
I still take it at night along with klonopin,but at very low doses,i find gabpentin for me seems to have a synergy with gabpentin and can kill anxiety quickly.
What i like about zone,and what zonegran held that i needed was to provide the mood stablization effects that say gabpentin would,but at a low fair dose which is 100 mg,but like u i do find gabpentin with all its bad press to actualy be a cheap,but effective medication,and recomend anytone with bad anxiety try using it alongside klonopin.
Posted by bulldog2 on October 31, 2009, at 11:58:33
In reply to Re: Mood stablization, posted by willyeee on October 31, 2009, at 10:37:30
> The recent i spent so long looking for a unconventional one when there are many well known ones is i never seem to respond to common meds,i.e depakote,tegatrol,lamictal,lithium,among others i could not handle,....nuerontion,gabentin was one i actualy liked and could handle,however the effective dose for anxiety was low but for rage it was very high and just overlapped my anit depressant effect of parnate in the day.
>
> I still take it at night along with klonopin,but at very low doses,i find gabpentin for me seems to have a synergy with gabpentin and can kill anxiety quickly.
>
>
> What i like about zone,and what zonegran held that i needed was to provide the mood stablization effects that say gabpentin would,but at a low fair dose which is 100 mg,but like u i do find gabpentin with all its bad press to actualy be a cheap,but effective medication,and recomend anytone with bad anxiety try using it alongside klonopin.I take neurontin in the 2400 - 3600 milligram range. Doses of 1200 two to three times a day. Use lots of caffeine to keep my alert. But also found that it snaps me out of a depression after a couple doses.
Yes when I was on parnate I dropped the neurontin. Just seemed like they cancelled each other out. When I was on my free month of vyvanse it also seemed like it was a mish mosh when combined with neurontin.
Now neurontin + percocet works nicely together
Now percocet + neurontin works nicely together
Posted by willyeee on October 31, 2009, at 12:44:03
In reply to Re: Mood stablization » willyeee, posted by bulldog2 on October 31, 2009, at 11:58:33
Im glad you found a good combo,and you did it on a off patent drug,omg im sure most docs would try to convince u that u NEEDED to switch the cheap gabpentin the lyrcia lol.
Cheers to ur success,and HAPPY HALLOWEEN WOOOOOOOO
Posted by bulldog2 on October 31, 2009, at 13:04:39
In reply to Re: Mood stablization, posted by willyeee on October 31, 2009, at 12:44:03
> Im glad you found a good combo,and you did it on a off patent drug,omg im sure most docs would try to convince u that u NEEDED to switch the cheap gabpentin the lyrcia lol.
>
> Cheers to ur success,and HAPPY HALLOWEEN WOOOOOOOOI would try Lyrica except for the terrible weight gain.
Actually like Halloween with the scarey movies and lots of candies. Let's see like Reese's pieces (like peanut butter and chocolate). Also love m and m's with the different colors.
Posted by willyeee on October 31, 2009, at 16:11:31
In reply to Re: Mood stablization » willyeee, posted by bulldog2 on October 31, 2009, at 13:04:39
R u kidding u dont give away reeses cup,nestle crunch,m &m`s,no no no,u give away the cheap lollipops and generic suckie candies.
The good choclate u hide and when the kids are done u pull it out!
Ha ha im kidding,ummm maybe?
About lyrcia,i think your better off personaly on gabpentin,the two drugs are almost indentical except gabepentin not being so dose dependent allows u to raise the dose high without worrying about getting totaly knocked out.
fyi....a common drug used to combat the side effects of drugs that cause weight gain,such as the infamous weight gain of zyprexa,is called METAFORMIN,anyone having trouble with weight gain might wanna look it up,again its used off label to attempt to tackle the very side affect of weight gain via medications.
Posted by ColoradoSnowflake on October 31, 2009, at 16:43:11
In reply to Re: Mood stablization, posted by willyeee on October 31, 2009, at 16:11:31
You guys are welcome to come Trick or Treating to my house! I'm giving out Reeses Cups, Reeses MM bags, and Milky Ways!! And I'll be a Witch....no large stretch there!!
Happy Halloween!!
Posted by bulldog2 on October 31, 2009, at 17:16:35
In reply to Re: Mood stablization, posted by ColoradoSnowflake on October 31, 2009, at 16:43:11
> You guys are welcome to come Trick or Treating to my house! I'm giving out Reeses Cups, Reeses MM bags, and Milky Ways!! And I'll be a Witch....no large stretch there!!
>
> Happy Halloween!!While waiting for the trick or treaters finished up the m and m's....Now to start working on the reese's cups...peanut butter and chocolate work together
Posted by Phidippus on October 31, 2009, at 17:46:37
In reply to Re: Mood stablization, posted by willyeee on October 31, 2009, at 10:37:30
>but at a low fair dose which is 100 mg,but like u >i do find gabpentin with all its bad press to >actualy be a cheap,but effective medication,and >recomend anytone with bad anxiety try using it >alongside klonopin.
I'm glad you're doing well on the Zonegran, I would urge you to up the dose to the 300 mg range as I see in most of the literature that seems to be the most effective dose range for mood stabilization in bipolar disorder.
Gabpentin is killer for anxiety but most studies show it is a lousy mood stabilizer.
P
Dexedrin 45 mg
Geodon 80 mg
Keppra 1000 mg
Lexapro 20 mg
Gabitril prn
Tramadol prn
Posted by Phidippus on October 31, 2009, at 17:51:03
In reply to Re: Mood stablization, posted by willyeee on October 30, 2009, at 17:03:34
> Um not sure what why you are recomending me to another med when im posting how well im doing.
Sorry, I did not mean to dissuade from your current medicine regime, just wanted to suggest alternatives in case the Zonegran didn't treat the bipolar adequately.
>Also yess mania is a POSSABLE SIDE EFFECT of the >drug,HOWEVER it is noted on the data sheet at a >very low occurance.Yes, just wanted to let you know that Zonegran facilitated dopaminergic transmission-a heads up so to speak.
> Im actualy in shock that after my posting of >how i personaly am responding to a med you can >actualy post and tell me to change it based on a >tiny percentage of side effect and in essence >actualy telling me how i feel is quite offensive.
Again, I apologize, I didn't mean to dissuade you from your current med choice, just wanted to let you know of alternatives and to give you a heads up about side effects of Zonegran.
P
Dexedrin 45 mg
Geodon 80 mg
Keppra 1000 mg
Lexapro 20 mg
Gabitril prn
Tramadol prn
Posted by Phidippus on October 31, 2009, at 17:56:35
In reply to Re: Mood stablization, posted by willyeee on October 30, 2009, at 17:27:18
> Also i am very much AGANIST the use of anti psyc meds for mood stablization,td is a very serious side effect ,and anti psych meds in my view should be left for just that,they are extremly strong potent medicationsYou're concern was rage, which is a serious symptom of mania which is effectively treated with atypical antipsychotics. Also, several atypical antipsychotics have shown to be efficacious as mood stabilizers, including Seroquel, Zyprexa, Geodon and Abilify. TD is of low incidence when using these medications.
P
Dexedrin 45 mg
Geodon 80 mg
Keppra 1000 mg
Lexapro 20 mg
Gabitril prn
Tramadol prn
Posted by Phidippus on October 31, 2009, at 18:32:19
In reply to Re: Mood stablization » willyeee, posted by bulldog2 on October 31, 2009, at 13:04:39
> I would try Lyrica except for the terrible weight gain.Lyrica is very strong-doped me up but glad to report I had no weight gain on it.
P
Dexedrin 45 mg
Geodon 80 mg
Keppra 1000 mg
Lexapro 20 mg
Gabitril prn
Tramadol prn
This is the end of the thread.
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