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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by jrbecker76 on October 15, 2009, at 23:04:05
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/10/091014193213.htm
Posted by Rosy Crucifiction on October 15, 2009, at 23:35:36
In reply to Nortriptyline Assoc w/ Suicidal Thoughts in Men, posted by jrbecker76 on October 15, 2009, at 23:04:05
Makes sense to me. I took a fatal overdose a few years ago (a friend found me barely conscious). Two months after I started it as augmentation to prozac.
Posted by Phillipa on October 16, 2009, at 0:02:17
In reply to Re: Nortriptyline Assoc w/ Suicidal Thoughts in Men, posted by Rosy Crucifiction on October 15, 2009, at 23:35:36
It's good to know that the SSRI's are still the best. Two arent necessaily better than one. That's only my thought can't speak for docs and others. Phillipa
Posted by Maxime on October 16, 2009, at 10:18:52
In reply to Re: Nortriptyline Assoc w/ Suicidal Thoughts in Men, posted by Phillipa on October 16, 2009, at 0:02:17
> It's good to know that the SSRI's are still the best. Two arent necessaily better than one. That's only my thought can't speak for docs and others. Phillipa
SSRIs are the best for what? Making you numb and feeling nothing?
I don't think SSRIs are the best at all.
Posted by Maxime on October 16, 2009, at 10:25:37
In reply to Re: Nortriptyline Assoc w/ Suicidal Thoughts in Men, posted by Phillipa on October 16, 2009, at 0:02:17
Not to mention the fact that it's SSRIs that come with the black box warning of increased suicidal ideation. Phillipa, I don't know how you could possible say that SSRIs are "still the best".
Posted by Phil on October 16, 2009, at 10:40:11
In reply to Re: Nortriptyline Assoc w/ Suicidal Thoughts in Men » Phillipa, posted by Maxime on October 16, 2009, at 10:25:37
Have no use for SSRI's.
Posted by bulldog2 on October 16, 2009, at 16:48:32
In reply to Re: Nortriptyline Assoc w/ Suicidal Thoughts in Men, posted by Phillipa on October 16, 2009, at 0:02:17
> It's good to know that the SSRI's are still the best. Two arent necessaily better than one. That's only my thought can't speak for docs and others. Phillipa
How does this study on Nortriptyline prove that ssris are still the best? It's one study. There are many other tcas and how about maois? There never was any study to my knowledge that ssris are the best.
There are now studies out that ssris are barely better than placebo for depression. There are studies out that tcas and maois are better than ssris for moderate to major depression.
We have to look for scientific studies to find the truth. If ssris were so great you wouldn't have so many desparate people coming here for alternate options.
You never tried an maoi and any tca you tried you quickly discontinued. I find your statement puzzling.
Posted by bleauberry on October 16, 2009, at 17:06:45
In reply to Nortriptyline Assoc w/ Suicidal Thoughts in Men, posted by jrbecker76 on October 15, 2009, at 23:04:05
A few thoughts immediately popped into my mind.
First, behind the scenes, what relationship do any of these authors have with the associates of Lexapro? Hopefully none. But without knowing, the entire study is meaningless until we know the motives and relationships of the men behind the study.
Why single out Nortriptyline vs Lexapro? I would think a better comparison would involve at least a dozen meds.
Speaking of which, how exactly did they measure the suicidal thoughts? Were the methods used exact duplicates with Lexpro vs. Nort? I couldn't really tell from the article.
Me personally, I am made very suicidal on any SSRI. Nort was not good for me either, but was quite a bit more benign than Lexapro. But my sample group is only n=1.
With the general acceptance that depression is a "brain chemical imbalance", and not knowing which chemicals are out of balance or in which direction they are out of balance or even how to know what a correct balance is (with personal genetic variability and enivornmental insults there can be no universal correct balance), I believe it is quite easy to throw the brain into a worse chemical imbalance by administering the wrong drug. It is pure guesswork.
I don't draw any conclusions from this study and I believe the authors were wrong in atttempting to.
The general statement that any psychiatric drug can increase or cause suicidal events is a statement I do agree with, but I do not feel this study was adequate in putting blame more on one than the other.
A problem with generic meds is that there is enough variability from one manufacturer to the next that it makes direct comparison impossible. Regardless that the active ingredients are supposedly identical (they aren't...that's another story) the pills are different. Different is different, period. The point is...did this study use brand Nort used in the studies to pass FDA in the early days, or did they use a generic which has never been through an FDA trial?
Even non-psych drugs can cause suicidal events.
Interesting study, but not much more than casual conversation during a TV show.
Posted by Phillipa on October 16, 2009, at 19:49:41
In reply to Re: Nortriptyline Assoc w/ Suicidal Thoughts in Men, posted by bleauberry on October 16, 2009, at 17:06:45
I say it as value JR's studies as he's a scientist website. Phillipa
Posted by Maxime on October 16, 2009, at 20:21:19
In reply to Re: Nortriptyline Assoc w/ Suicidal Thoughts in Men, posted by Phillipa on October 16, 2009, at 19:49:41
Well, his study was stupid. I wouldn't value it.
Posted by Phillipa on October 16, 2009, at 21:30:15
In reply to Re: Nortriptyline Assoc w/ Suicidal Thoughts in Men » Phillipa, posted by Maxime on October 16, 2009, at 20:21:19
Google Shawn Thomas. Phillipa
Posted by bulldog2 on October 17, 2009, at 10:21:10
In reply to Re: Nortriptyline Assoc w/ Suicidal Thoughts in Men, posted by Phillipa on October 16, 2009, at 21:30:15
> Google Shawn Thomas. Phillipa
Even if his study was valid in no way can you jump to the conclusion that ssris are better. One ssri was compared to one tca. At best you could say that ssri was better a better drug than that tca.
Posted by bulldog2 on October 17, 2009, at 10:26:42
In reply to Re: Nortriptyline Assoc w/ Suicidal Thoughts in Men, posted by Phillipa on October 16, 2009, at 21:30:15
> Google Shawn Thomas. Phillipa
I've used Nortriptyline in the past and found it much more effective than the ssris.
Yes I agree with Maxime quite a stupid study.
Posted by Phillipa on October 17, 2009, at 20:58:24
In reply to Re: Nortriptyline Assoc w/ Suicidal Thoughts in Men, posted by bulldog2 on October 17, 2009, at 10:26:42
Be nice sweetie. It's the phsical limitations. Love Phillipa
Posted by sowhysosad on October 17, 2009, at 21:53:26
In reply to Re: Nortriptyline Assoc w/ Suicidal Thoughts in Men, posted by bulldog2 on October 17, 2009, at 10:26:42
Does this not reek of a Lundbeck-funded study attempting to distance escitalopram from suicidality whilst demonising an older, off-patent, "less safe" drug?
Posted by Phillipa on October 17, 2009, at 21:59:24
In reply to Re: Nortriptyline Assoc w/ Suicidal Thoughts in Men » bulldog2, posted by Phillipa on October 17, 2009, at 20:58:24
Posted by TriedEveryDrug on October 17, 2009, at 23:38:36
In reply to Nortriptyline Assoc w/ Suicidal Thoughts in Men, posted by jrbecker76 on October 15, 2009, at 23:04:05
Not terribly surprising to me, either.
I have been prescribed various TCAs for attention deficit.
Desipramine makes me VERY depressed and causes me to have certain thoughts (that I would never act on) about every 5 minutes.
evil stuff. unfortunately for me it is the only thing that works for add
Posted by Maxime on October 18, 2009, at 13:08:02
In reply to Re: Nortriptyline Assoc w/ Suicidal Thoughts in Men, posted by TriedEveryDrug on October 17, 2009, at 23:38:36
Well SSRIs make me suicidal especially Prozac. Luckily they don't do sh*t for my depression so it's not a problem because I refuse to take them.
Posted by bulldog2 on October 18, 2009, at 14:04:11
In reply to Re: Nortriptyline Assoc w/ Suicidal Thoughts in Men » TriedEveryDrug, posted by Maxime on October 18, 2009, at 13:08:02
> Well SSRIs make me suicidal especially Prozac. Luckily they don't do sh*t for my depression so it's not a problem because I refuse to take them.
Reemember the Columbine massacre. The kids were on luvox.
Posted by Phillipa on October 18, 2009, at 19:22:35
In reply to Re: Nortriptyline Assoc w/ Suicidal Thoughts in Men, posted by bulldog2 on October 18, 2009, at 14:04:11
Bulldog ha ha. Love Phillipa
This is the end of the thread.
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