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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 7 of 7. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by vicksnow on July 14, 2009, at 16:24:47
my ex
boyfriend is a severe paranoid schiz. are there any new medications that are out or are about to be released. What meds have worked for you if you suffer from this condition. hes tried everything including Clozoril which had terrible side effects for him. he gets worse and worse each passing month. mothing seems to work for him. does anyone know of a good cocktail that works for you or someone you know?
Posted by linkadge on July 14, 2009, at 19:43:06
In reply to paranoid schizophrenia medications, posted by vicksnow on July 14, 2009, at 16:24:47
Whatever med you use add vitamin C (500mg to 1 gram). It has been shown to augment the effects of atypical and typical antispychotics.
I assmume he has tried zyprexa?
Linkadge
Posted by vicksnow on July 15, 2009, at 13:24:48
In reply to Re: paranoid schizophrenia medications, posted by linkadge on July 14, 2009, at 19:43:06
yes the last one he was on was zyprexa. it didn't work either... i have tried and tried to get him to take vitamins including vitamin C but i think perhaps he's not even following his med regime the way he should. just hoping for some miracle cocktail or med to come along.... thanks for responding
Posted by yxibow on July 15, 2009, at 14:19:54
In reply to Re: paranoid schizophrenia medications, posted by vicksnow on July 15, 2009, at 13:24:48
> yes the last one he was on was zyprexa. it didn't work either... i have tried and tried to get him to take vitamins including vitamin C but i think perhaps he's not even following his med regime the way he should. just hoping for some miracle cocktail or med to come along.... thanks for responding
> my ex
> boyfriend is a severe paranoid schiz. are there any new medications that are out or are about to be released. What meds have worked for you if you suffer from this condition. hes tried everything including Clozoril which had terrible side effects for him. he gets worse and worse each passing month. mothing seems to work for him. does anyone know of a good cocktail that works for you or someone you know?You can subscribe to alternative therapies, but since I don't follow them (there's a board for it)... vitamins are fine, but they're just not going to do anything noticeable for this condition.
Also I have heard plenty of stories of people who have dropped all their medication in favor of hearing about "miracle" vitamin "cures" and ended up with raging symptoms.
There are various routes to go down as well but not without consequences -- high dose Valium has been shown to be effective in psychotic disorders however I'm not saying its the best option... Its a path I took for a disorder that doesn't really fit psychosis or somatoform quite, basically a rare orphan disorder.
Fanapt, Iloperidone has been recently approved and should be in pharmacies fairly soon. It has a chemical compound similar but slightly different from Risperdal.
Asenapine has gotten approval from what I can see and may be out by late year/2010.
I don't normally think its a good idea but in some severe cases, a combination of APs may be something necessary; an atypical with a small dose of a low potency typical, say.I would be cautious though with any combinations with Clozaril (and definitely no benzodiazepines, its not part of the protocol.)
Perhaps a combination with a tricyclic or SSRI may be of benefit -- its really a matter of accepting trials of medication, and their side effects and trying other things.
Has he been through some of the AEDs ("mood stabilizers"), e.g. Trileptal, etc. ?
-- Jay
Posted by linkadge on July 15, 2009, at 15:04:30
In reply to Re: paranoid schizophrenia medications, posted by vicksnow on July 15, 2009, at 13:24:48
Vitamins are great, but vitamin C (specifically) has documented antipsychotic effects in both human and animal studies. It appears to reduce the necessary antipsychotic dose and improve overall outcome. Whatever his treatment plan though, he will need to find something he can tollerate and stick to.
Has he tried seroquel? Some people are able to tollerate this better than zyprexa. Seroquel may produce less apathy.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on July 15, 2009, at 15:14:14
In reply to Re: paranoid schizophrenia medications » vicksnow, posted by yxibow on July 15, 2009, at 14:19:54
>vitamins are fine, but they're just not going to >do anything noticeable for this condition.
I am generally not a proponent of 'vitamins' for something as severe as schizophreaia, nor would I ever recomend somebody use vitamins in place of antipsychotics. Vitamin C (specifically, however) actually does have documented antipsychotic effects. In human and animal models of schizophrenia it has antidopaminergic effects and reduces the necessary dose of antipsychotics in human and animal models of schizophrnia.
In addition, well designed human studies have suggested vitamin C enhances the clinical activity of atypical antispychotics, reduces the time till recovery in addition to improving disease specific oxidative stress and global functioning.
>Also I have heard plenty of stories of people >who have dropped all their medication in favor >of hearing about "miracle" vitamin "cures" and >ended up with raging symptoms.
This isn't a cure, nor am I suggesting that anyone drops medications in place of vitamins. I am suggesting, however, that for somebody who may not be able to tollerate full dose antipsychotics, the addition of vitamin C to a lower dose AP may prove to be beneficial.
Sometimes I think people go just as extreme 'antivitamin' as they do pro vitamin.
Linkadge
Posted by bleauberry on July 15, 2009, at 17:07:04
In reply to paranoid schizophrenia medications, posted by vicksnow on July 14, 2009, at 16:24:47
> my ex
> boyfriend is a severe paranoid schiz. are there any new medications that are out or are about to be released. What meds have worked for you if you suffer from this condition. hes tried everything including Clozoril which had terrible side effects for him. he gets worse and worse each passing month. mothing seems to work for him. does anyone know of a good cocktail that works for you or someone you know?First of all, I agree with Link. High dose vitamin C is a good base. Not a cure, but a good base for other things to work. Even by itself it can cut the edge. Another one in the same camp is Niacinamide (not the Niacin form), and of course Magnesium. These things have significant potential by themselves at lowering the symptomology enough to lessen the immediate crisis of it and pave a path for future things to work better.
I assume the history has included an assortment of antipsychotics. Though it seems so obvious to me, it seems invisible to doctors. That is, if a particular diagnosis is not responding to the particular group of meds that supposedly treat that diagnosis, then they have to venture outside the box and:
1. Try medications from other groups that may not normally be thought of for paranoid schizo. That would include things like Nortriptyline in combination with a favorite antipsychotic, a benzodiazepine like klonopin or lorazepam, mood stabilizers like lithium or depakote or both.
2. Reconsider the diagnosis. Just because it looks like paranoid schizo doesn't mean it is.
It could be Lyme disease. In which case the drug that will end the schizo stuff in about 2 to 4 weeks is Tetracycline. If I were to compile all the reports from around the country of people who have had longtime severe psychiatric symptoms calmed down on antibiotics, it would take up several pbabble pages. It happens a lot behind the eyes of the public.
My personal opinion is that someone in his shoes and history should automatically be given the Western Blot lab test from one of the two labs that specialize in its use in Lyme (not just any lab), and regardless of the results negative or positive or unsure, if there is a history of tick exposure, begin Tetracycline. All that is really needed is a history of living in a tick area and having symptoms of psychiatric nature, with brain fog or difficulty in word retrieval or short term memory being nearly universal clues. If there is any pains in joints or muscles, that even makes it more likely. It sounds far-fetched to someone who has never heard of it, but out of this world unbelievable schizophrenia has been tamed in very short time by the proper antibiotics when all of man's most powerful psych meds failed in a lot of people. The Centers For Disease Control estimates that for every one person diagnosed with Lyme disease, there are 9 others walking around undiagnosed, most of them with bewildering diseases of all kinds, most of them including bizarre psychiatric manifestations. Lyme is a nervous system infection after all. One has to ask, is my boyfriend one of those 9 out of 10 people who has Lyme disease and doesn't know it? Only Tetracycline for a few weeks will tell for sure.
A treatment resistant paranoid schizophrenic who continued to deteriorate on psych meds but improved significantly on antiobiotics did not have paranoiod schizophrenia, though it looked for all the world like it was for sure. What it was, was the neurotoxins of the normal metabolism of a bacteria called Borellia being absorbed in the brain nerve endings and receptors. We can mess with psych meds all we want and they won't come anywhere near shouting distance of doing a thing to stop it.
If he has silver fillings in his teeth, it could very easily be the impact of vaporized mercury absorbing in the mouth going directly to the gut, lungs, and brain. That is remedied by replacing the fillings, and then doing a few dozen short rounds of low dose frequent dose DMSA (a chelating medicine that removes lead and mercury).
So what I am saying is:
1. Vitamin C, Niacinamide, Magnesium...all safe, easy, cheap, and have the potential to cut the edge off the monster.
2. Try medications outside the box.
3. Reconsider the diagnosis. Do not rely on definite diagnosis or lab tests before starting a treatment on a hunch. If there is the slightest hunch and just some evidence of a possibility, do it. Lyme tops the list. Silver fillings should go bye-bye in all people, but definitely most surely in anyone with illness.
This is the end of the thread.
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