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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by emme on June 21, 2009, at 6:06:18
In reply to Update on starting Zyprexa- positive results!!, posted by jerrypharmstudent on June 20, 2009, at 20:34:11
> I started Zyprexa 5mg on Monday and I've had a wonderful response to it already. Weird thing is no side effects - no sedation or increased appetite. BUt it has controlled my anxiety amazingly - I don't feel the need to take my klonopin at all. My mood has increased as well, I don't feel dread or the hopelessness I was feeling before.
>
> Could I be feeling such a positive response so soon or is this the famous "placebo effect?"
>
> Anyway, OH - FYI I'm taking it for Major Depression w/ Anxiety.
>
> Here are my meds thus far:
>
> Adderall 20mg 3x daily
> Lexapro 30mg
> Klonopin 1mg 4x daily
> Ambien 10mg at night
> Zyprexa 5mg at night
>
>
I've never seen anything like the speed with which Zyprexa improved my mood. That's great that it's helping you!emme
Posted by Zana on June 21, 2009, at 9:45:36
In reply to Re: Update on starting Zyprexa- positive results!! » jerrypharmstudent, posted by emme on June 21, 2009, at 6:06:18
That's sounds like great news.
Posted by ricker on June 21, 2009, at 11:24:31
In reply to Update on starting Zyprexa- positive results!!, posted by jerrypharmstudent on June 20, 2009, at 20:34:11
Great news JP, I take 5mg as well, and it does work fast!!!
It's my p/docs first choice for AP's and says it's very smooth.... I like it :)Regards, Rick
Posted by bleauberry on June 21, 2009, at 13:00:22
In reply to Update on starting Zyprexa- positive results!!, posted by jerrypharmstudent on June 20, 2009, at 20:34:11
I do not understand why the SSRI+Zyprexa combo is not more popular than it is. Probably because the weight gain risk, diabetes risk, and metabolic risks cause doctors to choose other APs instead. I found Prozac was best with Zyprexa, Zoloft second best, and Lexapro third. But any of them were miles better than without Zyprexa. And the other APs did not even come close to duplicating what Zyprexa did.
Excellent medicine. But you know the risks. Sugars have become your enemy in this deal.
Posted by Zyprexa on June 21, 2009, at 22:32:23
In reply to Update on starting Zyprexa- positive results!!, posted by jerrypharmstudent on June 20, 2009, at 20:34:11
Thats the zyprexa working. Its fast, can feel results in 30min to an hour. Some times it takes the hunger time to set in. Could notice that a week down the road. But thats great, sounds like a good med for you!
Posted by Zyprexa on June 21, 2009, at 22:39:50
In reply to Re: Update on starting Zyprexa- positive results!!, posted by bleauberry on June 21, 2009, at 13:00:22
Yes, get your blood sugar tested. Zyprexa can elevate it artificialy. Magnifies the sugar you eat. Best to stick with protein, fruits and veggis, watch the carbs. Drink diet soda. You may notice higher blood sugars in the morning, thats what happens to me. But at 5 mg, you may not have a problem with your sugars. I take 10-15 mg and don't require more than 500 mg metformin.
Posted by jerrypharmstudent on June 21, 2009, at 22:56:21
In reply to Re: Update on starting Zyprexa- positive results!!, posted by Zyprexa on June 21, 2009, at 22:39:50
> Yes, get your blood sugar tested. Zyprexa can elevate it artificialy. Magnifies the sugar you eat. Best to stick with protein, fruits and veggis, watch the carbs. Drink diet soda. You may notice higher blood sugars in the morning, thats what happens to me. But at 5 mg, you may not have a problem with your sugars. I take 10-15 mg and don't require more than 500 mg metformin.
What does it feel like when your blood sugar is high or too high? Just curious.
Actually I have noticed some carb cravings in the past couple days but it's not drastic. I've also notice that the heat outside really bothers me. However, I'm still doing well.
Posted by morganpmiller on June 22, 2009, at 0:33:43
In reply to Re: Update on starting Zyprexa- positive results!! » Zyprexa, posted by jerrypharmstudent on June 21, 2009, at 22:56:21
Take pycnogenol for carbs if you happen to give to those craving. Pycnogenol is a good thing to take for anyone in their 30s or 40s or older. It regulates insulin sensitivity and slows down the absorption of carbohydrates.
Hope you keep feeling better!
Posted by jerrypharmstudent on June 22, 2009, at 0:57:53
In reply to Re: Update on starting Zyprexa- positive results!!, posted by morganpmiller on June 22, 2009, at 0:33:43
Anyone know the exact mechanism of action for Zyprexa and if it would interfere with Adderall in any way. Since I started taking the Zyprexa it seems like my Adderall isn't giving me the "oompf" it was giving me before. A minor issue, but just wondering.
thanks
Jerry
Posted by morganpmiller on June 22, 2009, at 1:42:29
In reply to Re: Update on starting Zyprexa- positive results!!, posted by jerrypharmstudent on June 22, 2009, at 0:57:53
Zyprexa is a serotonin 5ht2 and dopamine D2 antagonist. Evidently it has a higher affinity for serotonin. I think this all means that it dampens down the response of these receptors so they are not firing out of control.
Adderall increases dopamine and noradrenalin/norepinephrine, so it would make sense that Zyprexa would dampen the effects of Adderall.
Your doctor should have told you all of this. God I hate p docs.
I'm not sure I would increase the Adderall to compensate. At some point you have to wonder what all of these drugs are doing to your brain when combined together. I understand we need to function in life. But what if one day we can't function at all because of the damage done to our brains. That's where I'm at. Sorry if I am being preachy or offending you. Sh*t I just want to feel good too. So I don't blame you or anyone else for being on a cocktail of medication. I blame those idiot p docs for making money off of subscribing them and not doing everything they can to keep the meds down. Why would they want that. The more there is a need to add another medication, the more the keep your business and make money.
Zyprexa is keeping you safe at the moment. That is the most important thing. Screw adderall. JMO
Posted by morganpmiller on June 22, 2009, at 1:55:12
In reply to Re: Update on starting Zyprexa- positive results!!, posted by jerrypharmstudent on June 22, 2009, at 0:57:53
Sorry if I made you feel bad. Ugh, I just realized I was being insensitive and you are going through a really rough time. Sorry!
I had a buddy die from a heart attack on Adderall. So, I am biased.
Maybe you could ask your p doc if he thought something like wellbutrin would be ok. No drug is perfect but I just feel like wellbutrin would be a safer alternative to adderall in the long run. plus it has a much longer half life. It should work synergistically with lexapro.
I am just one that believes that most of us with ADD/ADHD are really suffering from anxiety and depression and the ADD/ADHD is just one of many symptoms manifesting from our depression/anxiety. If the depression/anxiety is properly treated and other measures are taken, there will be no need for such stimulants as Adderall. Again, JMHO
I'm not some crazy conspiracy theorist, but you do have to wonder what these drug companies are thinking behind the scenes. You also have to wonder how the hell this country ever became what it was or how this world ever exploded into what it is now without all of these stimulant drugs and antidepressants. Are we creating a world where there is more of a need for medication or was that need there always?
Posted by morganpmiller on June 22, 2009, at 1:56:30
In reply to Re: Update on starting Zyprexa- positive results!!, posted by morganpmiller on June 22, 2009, at 1:55:12
Wow I just realized I selfishly used your thread as a platform for my own ideas. My bad. I will watch that in the future.
Glad you are feeling better on Zyprexa, I mean that.
Posted by bleauberry on June 23, 2009, at 17:48:57
In reply to Re: Update on starting Zyprexa- positive results!!, posted by jerrypharmstudent on June 22, 2009, at 0:57:53
> Anyone know the exact mechanism of action for Zyprexa and if it would interfere with Adderall in any way. Since I started taking the Zyprexa it seems like my Adderall isn't giving me the "oompf" it was giving me before. A minor issue, but just wondering.
>
> thanks
> JerryAs with all meds, no one knows how these meds work. Through animal studies we can get a basic idea of what they do, but that is likely just the tip of the iceberg. Zyprexa is an antagonist at a whole bunch of receptors, including D1 through D4, adrenergic, several serotonin receptors, and others. As tricyclics are considered "dirty" drugs in terms of their non-selectivity, hitting a bunch of targets, Zyprexa is also a dirty drug. To me, that is a good thing. I think the more selective a drug is, the less useful it is in moderate to severe cases. Selective is more appropriate for mild cases. My opinion.
In one study they determined that Zyprexa turned up the volume on about 30 genes and turned down the volume on about 30 others. (some of the ones turned up were the ones that turn food into fat storage, and thus the weight gain if a change of lifestyle does not go along with the prescription)
Even if we knew exactly what the meds do, do we know what that means in terms of individual patient results? We don't. There is no substitute for personal trial.
I tried both Ritalin and Adderall when I was on Zyprexa. There was no interference that I could perceive. Adderall made me very depressed just like it did when I wasn't on Zyprexa, and Ritalin boosted my mood and energy just like it did when I wasn't on Zyprexa. Probably the only interference was that the stimulants tended to cut down on the Zyprexa appetite, and Zyprexa helped to get to sleep.
Here is a weird one for you. A case study on pubmed. A patient in a hospital had psychotic depression. It was not responding to the antipsychotic. Don't ask me why they did this, I don't know what they were thinking (but it is a good example of how logic doesn't much matter in psychiatry), but they added Ritalin. Psychotic, and added a stimulant? Geez. Now, that does not seem wise, does it? Well, the ritalin went all the way from a starting dose of 5mg to 40mg, at which time the patient's psychosis and depression both disappeared into remission.
Go figure. I don't think we can figure any of this stuff out in advance.
Posted by jerrypharmstudent on June 23, 2009, at 18:24:08
In reply to Re: Update on starting Zyprexa- positive results!!, posted by bleauberry on June 23, 2009, at 17:48:57
> > Anyone know the exact mechanism of action for Zyprexa and if it would interfere with Adderall in any way. Since I started taking the Zyprexa it seems like my Adderall isn't giving me the "oompf" it was giving me before. A minor issue, but just wondering.
> >
> > thanks
> > Jerry
>
> As with all meds, no one knows how these meds work. Through animal studies we can get a basic idea of what they do, but that is likely just the tip of the iceberg. Zyprexa is an antagonist at a whole bunch of receptors, including D1 through D4, adrenergic, several serotonin receptors, and others. As tricyclics are considered "dirty" drugs in terms of their non-selectivity, hitting a bunch of targets, Zyprexa is also a dirty drug. To me, that is a good thing. I think the more selective a drug is, the less useful it is in moderate to severe cases. Selective is more appropriate for mild cases. My opinion.
>
> In one study they determined that Zyprexa turned up the volume on about 30 genes and turned down the volume on about 30 others. (some of the ones turned up were the ones that turn food into fat storage, and thus the weight gain if a change of lifestyle does not go along with the prescription)
>
> Even if we knew exactly what the meds do, do we know what that means in terms of individual patient results? We don't. There is no substitute for personal trial.
>
> I tried both Ritalin and Adderall when I was on Zyprexa. There was no interference that I could perceive. Adderall made me very depressed just like it did when I wasn't on Zyprexa, and Ritalin boosted my mood and energy just like it did when I wasn't on Zyprexa. Probably the only interference was that the stimulants tended to cut down on the Zyprexa appetite, and Zyprexa helped to get to sleep.
>
> Here is a weird one for you. A case study on pubmed. A patient in a hospital had psychotic depression. It was not responding to the antipsychotic. Don't ask me why they did this, I don't know what they were thinking (but it is a good example of how logic doesn't much matter in psychiatry), but they added Ritalin. Psychotic, and added a stimulant? Geez. Now, that does not seem wise, does it? Well, the ritalin went all the way from a starting dose of 5mg to 40mg, at which time the patient's psychosis and depression both disappeared into remission.
>
> Go figure. I don't think we can figure any of this stuff out in advance.
>
>
>
>Very interesting! Well guess what side effect showed up? HUNGER! I'm craving mostly salty foods - pizza, bacon, hamburgers, you name it! UGH. I'm already overweight from previous meds and I can't afford to gain anymore weight. What can I do to curb my appetite? Will this side effects go away in time?
Thanks again!
Jerry
Posted by Zyprexa on June 23, 2009, at 19:17:32
In reply to Re: Update on starting Zyprexa- positive results!! » Zyprexa, posted by jerrypharmstudent on June 21, 2009, at 22:56:21
I live in the south, heat has not been a problem with me. High blood sugar can be hard to tell. Some of the symptoms are thirst and tiredness. If you only take 5mg you should not have much of a problem, with blood sugar and munchis.
Posted by Zyprexa on June 23, 2009, at 19:23:00
In reply to Re: Update on starting Zyprexa- positive results!!, posted by jerrypharmstudent on June 22, 2009, at 0:57:53
zyprexa makes you calm and sedated. The Adderal is doing the oposite. Ones a stimulant the other is sedative. They counteract one anouther. The medicines still work you just won't get those side-effects anymore.
Posted by jerrypharmstudent on June 23, 2009, at 20:43:23
In reply to Re: Update on starting Zyprexa- positive results!!, posted by Zyprexa on June 23, 2009, at 19:23:00
> zyprexa makes you calm and sedated. The Adderal is doing the oposite. Ones a stimulant the other is sedative. They counteract one anouther. The medicines still work you just won't get those side-effects anymore.
But I don't feel any sedating effects from the Zyprexa at all.
Posted by Zyprexa on June 24, 2009, at 9:31:37
In reply to Re: Update on starting Zyprexa- positive results!! » Zyprexa, posted by jerrypharmstudent on June 23, 2009, at 20:43:23
Thats because of the Adderal. Its over powering the zyprexa. Do you sleep more now or better?
Posted by jerrypharmstudent on June 24, 2009, at 17:19:47
In reply to Re: Update on starting Zyprexa- positive results!!, posted by Zyprexa on June 24, 2009, at 9:31:37
> Thats because of the Adderal. Its over powering the zyprexa. Do you sleep more now or better?
I'm sleeping about the same as I was before the Zyprexa. Is Zyprexa supposed to be as sedating as Seroquel? Because Seroquel knocks me out no matter what.
Posted by Zyprexa on June 24, 2009, at 23:56:25
In reply to Re: Update on starting Zyprexa- positive results!! » Zyprexa, posted by jerrypharmstudent on June 24, 2009, at 17:19:47
You should be gratefull you are not getting any of the nasty side-effects of zyprexa. You may have been on a higher dose of seroquel. High dose zyprexa is like 20-30mg. Seroquel would be more like 900mg?
Posted by bleauberry on June 25, 2009, at 17:14:52
In reply to Re: Update on starting Zyprexa- positive results!! » Zyprexa, posted by jerrypharmstudent on June 24, 2009, at 17:19:47
> I'm sleeping about the same as I was before the Zyprexa. Is Zyprexa supposed to be as sedating as Seroquel? Because Seroquel knocks me out no matter what.
>
>No, Zyprexa does not have anywhere near the antihistamine or sedative effect of Seroquel. Zyprexa is strong in those regards, but compared to Seroquel, no contest. Seroquel is one of the world market's strongest antihistamines. Zyprexa is not anywhere close to that.
Zyprexa is, however, a much better overall med, in my opinion. In that regard, Seroquel loses, no contest. My opinion. It's an easy trend to see over time at pbabble and other realworld sites of actual patient experiences.
Posted by jerrypharmstudent on June 30, 2009, at 12:57:26
In reply to Re: Update on starting Zyprexa- positive results!! » jerrypharmstudent, posted by bleauberry on June 25, 2009, at 17:14:52
Well it's been a couple of weeks at 5mg of Zyprexa and although my anxiety is much improved, my depression is not. I'm extremely apathetic, lethargic - no motivation at all. It seems to be canceling out my Adderall completely. No matter what dose I take it's as if I haven't taken it at all.
The Adderall has been very helpful for me and my depression now without it it's horrible. I called my pdoc to see if I can get an appointment to see him soon - waiting for the nurse to call me back.
So I'm torn, I want to stay on the Zyprexa because of how helpful it's been for my anxiety, but I want to get off of it so my Adderall works again....what to do?
Jerry
Posted by ricker on June 30, 2009, at 15:05:21
In reply to Re: Update on starting Zyprexa- positive results!!, posted by jerrypharmstudent on June 30, 2009, at 12:57:26
Hi JP,
I take 5mgs of Zyprexa and found during my first trial back in November I felt much the same as you described.
When I was taking Lamictal 100mgs I felt a bit over stimulated so I asked my p/doc about combining the 2, hoping they would cancel out each others negative?
I'm happy to report I feel much better as the lamictal seems to provide motivation while Zyprexa guards against any potential over stimulation from the Lamictal!
I also take Zoloft 100mgs and should mention it took some time before I stabilized with my current cocktail.
Regards, Rick
Posted by twinch42085 on July 3, 2009, at 4:37:32
In reply to Re: Update on starting Zyprexa- positive results!! » jerrypharmstudent, posted by ricker on June 30, 2009, at 15:05:21
> Hi JP,
>
> I take 5mgs of Zyprexa and found during my first trial back in November I felt much the same as you described.
>
> When I was taking Lamictal 100mgs I felt a bit over stimulated so I asked my p/doc about combining the 2, hoping they would cancel out each others negative?
>
> I'm happy to report I feel much better as the lamictal seems to provide motivation while Zyprexa guards against any potential over stimulation from the Lamictal!
>
> I also take Zoloft 100mgs and should mention it took some time before I stabilized with my current cocktail.
>
> Regards, Rick
Hi, I just started sample packets of 10mg Zyprexa. I cut those into quarters because I knew 10mg was too much to start out with. I have insomnia by the way :-)The Zyprexa worked like a charm! I was and still am very impressed with it. The sedation was irritating at first but went away. I am working my way to 10mg though.
I have gained weight from the Zyprexa. 7 pounds in two weeks :-/ BUT the weight gain actually benefits me because I have a very difficult time maintaining my weight due to my Crohn's Disease which causes me to lose more weight than I should. So, with that being said I gladly accept the increased appetite.
You said that 100mg of Lamictal made you feel overstimulated. I did take it in the pass, and there was one moment where I felt like I was manic. Do you still experience that well being? I had to stop treatment of Lamictal due to my insurance, BUT now I recently found that Lamictal is made in a generic form, so I am going to ask my pdoc if I could switch from Valproic Acid back to the Lamictal.
Wish Me luck,
Twinch
Posted by ricker on July 3, 2009, at 12:24:26
In reply to Re: Update on starting Zyprexa- positive results!!, posted by twinch42085 on July 3, 2009, at 4:37:32
> You said that 100mg of Lamictal made you feel overstimulated. I did take it in the pass, and there was one moment where I felt like I was manic. Do you still experience that well being?
Yes, compared to 6 months ago, I feel much better although I'm considering increasing lamictal to 150mg. I believe the slight increase may bring me to 100% remission? If not, I'll step back to 100mg and consider raising zyprexa to 10mg.
> I had to stop treatment of Lamictal due to my insurance, BUT now I recently found that Lamictal is made in a generic form, so I am going to ask my pdoc if I could switch from Valproic Acid back to the Lamictal.
>
> Wish Me luck,
>
> TwinchGood luck Twinch, I hope you find success with your treatment. I'd like to hear how you make out with your proposed trial.
All the best..... Rick
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