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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Meltingpot on June 20, 2009, at 18:18:37
In reply to Re: ECT, posted by morganpmiller on June 20, 2009, at 1:20:04
Well all I can say is that if this person is not taking any medication at all then really they can't be that bad! Maybe the ECT helped with the depression after all.Denise
Posted by linkadge on June 20, 2009, at 19:11:06
In reply to Re: ECT, posted by Rdragon on June 19, 2009, at 22:36:14
>Look, the only reason I'm even contemplating ECT >is because for me, it really is THAT bad. I've >had thoughts of suicide cross my mind, and this >has messed up EVERYTHING from my blinking to my >pleasure.
Ok, well thats depression. If you haven't taken some of the more effective medications I don't know why you would be willing to take such risks.
BTW, ECT is not approved for fixing messed up blinking.
>I just don't know if medicine is going to cut >it. But yeah, my freaking blinking is messed up, >that's a huge indicator that something is >really, really wrong.
As far as I remember, messed up blinking isn't a symptom of depression (??)
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on June 20, 2009, at 19:19:24
In reply to Re: ECT - tunnle vision, posted by morganpmiller on June 20, 2009, at 1:11:38
>While there may be some ECT horror stories, >especially in the past, there are many stories >of people claiming that ECT saved their lives.
See this is exactly what I mean. Proponents of ECT use words like *some* people have horror stories. I am not saying it doesn't benifit some people I am saying that more than just *some* people have horror stories. I have heard more horror stories than positive ones. And until somebody wants to publish some *unbiased* data on the matter, I'd assume things are a little biased.
>I do think it should be the last and final >option for severe depressives.
There is no last option. There are an infinite number of combinations of drugs, supplements, surgical procedures, and therapy which I am surprised people havn't tried first.
Oh, and the last procedure isn't always the best. I think people subcontiously equate risky and controversial with effective. The 'effectiveness' of ECT is, in my opinion, bolstered to justify controversial and risky.
Linkadge
Posted by Rdragon on June 20, 2009, at 19:21:06
In reply to Re: ECT, posted by linkadge on June 20, 2009, at 19:11:06
> >Look, the only reason I'm even contemplating ECT >is because for me, it really is THAT bad. I've >had thoughts of suicide cross my mind, and this >has messed up EVERYTHING from my blinking to my >pleasure.
>
> Ok, well thats depression. If you haven't taken some of the more effective medications I don't know why you would be willing to take such risks.
>
> BTW, ECT is not approved for fixing messed up blinking.
>
> >I just don't know if medicine is going to cut >it. But yeah, my freaking blinking is messed up, >that's a huge indicator that something is >really, really wrong.
>
> As far as I remember, messed up blinking isn't a symptom of depression (??)
>
> LinkadgeThen what is approved for fixing messed up blinking? Lol, the best way I can describe this problem is that it's like I almost have to manually blink, like it's messed with something neurologically and chemically.
And I definitely have the symptoms of depression, just some other strange symptoms which can't really be categorized.
Posted by Phillipa on June 20, 2009, at 20:19:22
In reply to Re: ECT, posted by Rdragon on June 20, 2009, at 19:21:06
Seriously have you seen a neurologist? That would be my recommendation before using ECT. Phillipa
Posted by Rdragon on June 20, 2009, at 21:11:53
In reply to Re: ECT » Rdragon, posted by Phillipa on June 20, 2009, at 20:19:22
> Seriously have you seen a neurologist? That would be my recommendation before using ECT. Phillipa
No I haven't, I guess it's something I should definitely do just to be sure it's not something neurological. If it isn't, then it's just a really messed up chemical balance.
Posted by Zeba on June 20, 2009, at 22:01:36
In reply to Re: ECT, posted by morganpmiller on June 20, 2009, at 1:20:04
ECT did not help my depression. I was just as bad off with depression if not worse when I quit ECT. I got a different psychiatrist and quit the one who pushed the ECT in the first place. I was put on Parnate at a higher dose than I had been on in the past when it once worked with me. The psychiatrist who pushed the ECT was not willing to go up on the Parnate.
Re why I am not on meds now--well I was on Parnate for a year but also in therapy three times per week, and this was more curative than the meds. I am at a place now where I can manage my problems in therapy now without being on meds. Pure and simple.
I also take vitamins, B12 for example, and exercise everyday which the neurologist said was the best thing one could do for depression and/or to keep one's memory from getting worse.
Zeba
Posted by morganpmiller on June 20, 2009, at 23:18:38
In reply to Re: ECT » morganpmiller, posted by Zeba on June 20, 2009, at 22:01:36
Thanks Zeba, you are lucky. I think I could have gone medication free for much of my life. Unfortunately, I did not take care of myself and do all of the right things. Besides, I have developed a worse form of bipolar than before. And, my brain, not just my depression, but my brain is a train wreck.
I agree that exercise is the BEST! Unfortunately, I'm not getting the benefit from it I used to for many reasons. I hope to get it back. It is devastating not having my wonderful workouts at the gym. It's really unbelievable considering that I was going to run triathlons professionally at one point. Blah Blah Blah. enough about me.
Thanks for your input on ECT
Posted by linkadge on June 21, 2009, at 7:49:55
In reply to Re: ECT, posted by Rdragon on June 20, 2009, at 19:21:06
I am not saying you don't have depression, I am just saying it might be a goood idea to exhaust other options before going under the electrode.
This is a medication board where people have come shared their experiences with medication combinations. We are not experts but it is worth considering potentially effective medications combinations you havn't tried.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on June 21, 2009, at 7:54:05
In reply to Re: ECT » morganpmiller, posted by Zeba on June 20, 2009, at 22:01:36
Thanks for sharing your expereince. Your case raises a good point. Some people who try / consider ECT think that their depression is untreatable and won't consider some simpler, more obvious options.
I knew a guy who failed ECT, attempted suicide and then ultimately responded to (and is still doing well on) the herbal treatment St. John's Wort. You just never know.
Linkadge
Posted by Phillipa on June 21, 2009, at 19:12:53
In reply to Re: ECT » Zeba, posted by linkadge on June 21, 2009, at 7:54:05
St John's Wort and ECT? Phillipa
Posted by morganpmiller on June 22, 2009, at 0:02:09
In reply to Re: ECT » linkadge, posted by Phillipa on June 21, 2009, at 19:12:53
Wow yeah that's uh pretty amazing..ECT fails-St. John's Wort succeeds. Just goes to show how powerful SJW may be. I think SJW should be used as a first line of treatment by psychiatrists in many cases. God I hate Big Pharma!!!!
Posted by Meltingpot on June 22, 2009, at 7:30:56
In reply to Re: ECT » morganpmiller, posted by Zeba on June 20, 2009, at 22:01:36
Hi Zeba (xxxxx),
Well maybe you just had an "episode" of depression that went away on it's own or which responded to therapy (lucky you).
A lot of people on this board have suffered from unremitting depression for years and haven't responded to meds or therapy and don't have issues in life that they need to resolve. I guess to them (myself included) ECT might seem like a viable option and as it can be useful tool It shouldn't be removed from the list of things to try.
Denise
Posted by Deputy Dinah on June 22, 2009, at 7:55:21
In reply to Re: ECT - Zeba, posted by Meltingpot on June 22, 2009, at 7:30:56
> Hi Zeba (xxxxx),
I've x'd out the name above. Please don't post anything that identifies another poster.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above posts, should of course themselves be civil.
Dr. Bob is always free to override deputy decisions. His email is on the bottom of each page. Please feel free to email him if you believe this decision was made in error.
Dinah, acting as deputy to Dr. Bob
Posted by Ant-Rock on June 28, 2009, at 21:37:52
In reply to Re: ECT - Zeba, posted by Meltingpot on June 22, 2009, at 7:30:56
> Hi Zeba (xxxxx),
>
> Well maybe you just had an "episode" of depression that went away on it's own or which responded to therapy (lucky you).
>
> A lot of people on this board have suffered from unremitting depression for years and haven't responded to meds or therapy and don't have issues in life that they need to resolve. I guess to them (myself included) ECT might seem like a viable option and as it can be useful tool It shouldn't be removed from the list of things to try.
>
> Denise
My new take on ECT...I'm on 90mg parnate, and my depression still isn't abolished. Somewhat better, but still suffer from morning exhaustion/brain fog and fatigue.
I exersize 3x week on top of working a pretty physical job 6days/week.
Word retrieval and not having the mental energy to focus properly are very prevalent.What I'm getting at, is these possible ECT side effects are no worse than the current state alot of us are in anyway.
I have an extremely experienced/compassionate psychiatrist I've been seeing on and off for most of my adult life. He's run out of medication/therapy choices for me years ago, and has always left the door open to ECT, which I have resisted so far.
He's told me several stories of young professionals in college and doing well after ECT.I'm seriously starting to think I've blown the best years of my life by resisting ECT out of fear.
Just my 2cents,
Anthony
Posted by Zeba on June 28, 2009, at 23:19:27
In reply to Re: ECT - Zeba (My Take)... » Meltingpot, posted by Ant-Rock on June 28, 2009, at 21:37:52
Why not try rTMS rather than go for the extreme??
Posted by Sigismund on June 29, 2009, at 2:02:45
In reply to Re: ECT - Zeba (My Take)... » Meltingpot, posted by Ant-Rock on June 28, 2009, at 21:37:52
>What I'm getting at, is these possible ECT side effects are no worse than the current state a lot of us are in anyway.
Well, you won't know until you try it, but I'm very doubtful.
Posted by alchemy on June 29, 2009, at 11:15:52
In reply to Re: ECT - Zeba (My Take)..., posted by Sigismund on June 29, 2009, at 2:02:45
a side note: ECT has a much higher success rate than rTMS or antidepressants. The main issues of course are the memory, and will the results last? But there is the option of maintenance ECT.
Posted by Ant-Rock on June 29, 2009, at 12:58:12
In reply to Re: ECT - Zeba (My Take)... » Ant-Rock, posted by Zeba on June 28, 2009, at 23:19:27
> Why not try rTMS rather than go for the extreme??
Thank you for the suggestion Zeba.I was actually one of the first to try rTMS in a depression study at Beth Isreal back in 2000.
I recieved the real treatment, not the sham. There were no major side effects, but it also did nothing for my depression, not even a little.That was a while ago, and it is possible the parameters of the treatment have changed, but my shrink doesn't seem to think it's very effective.
Anthony
Posted by Rdragon on June 30, 2009, at 8:29:35
In reply to Re: ECT - Zeba (My Take)... » Meltingpot, posted by Ant-Rock on June 28, 2009, at 21:37:52
> > Hi Zeba (xxxxx),
> >
> > Well maybe you just had an "episode" of depression that went away on it's own or which responded to therapy (lucky you).
> >
> > A lot of people on this board have suffered from unremitting depression for years and haven't responded to meds or therapy and don't have issues in life that they need to resolve. I guess to them (myself included) ECT might seem like a viable option and as it can be useful tool It shouldn't be removed from the list of things to try.
> >
> > Denise
>
>
> My new take on ECT...
>
> I'm on 90mg parnate, and my depression still isn't abolished. Somewhat better, but still suffer from morning exhaustion/brain fog and fatigue.
> I exersize 3x week on top of working a pretty physical job 6days/week.
> Word retrieval and not having the mental energy to focus properly are very prevalent.
>
> What I'm getting at, is these possible ECT side effects are no worse than the current state alot of us are in anyway.
>
> I have an extremely experienced/compassionate psychiatrist I've been seeing on and off for most of my adult life. He's run out of medication/therapy choices for me years ago, and has always left the door open to ECT, which I have resisted so far.
> He's told me several stories of young professionals in college and doing well after ECT.
>
> I'm seriously starting to think I've blown the best years of my life by resisting ECT out of fear.
>
> Just my 2cents,
> Anthony
>
>
>
>I agree with this post, and I don't want to end up like you. I've decided to wait about another 10 or so months before I go ahead and get the ECT done. I'll have to afford it on my own however, since my parents don't want me getting it. I'm praying that this goes away with time and medication however, and I plan on being on Lexapro, Geodon (or Zprexa), and Lithium. Life is too short to spend it being miserable and I will DO WHATEVER it takes to be normal again (namely ECT).
Posted by SLS on June 30, 2009, at 21:37:11
In reply to Re: ECT - Zeba (My Take)... » Meltingpot, posted by Ant-Rock on June 28, 2009, at 21:37:52
> I'm seriously starting to think I've blown the best years of my life by resisting ECT out of fear.
You have done the best you could on a moment by moment basis with what little you have had to work with. That includes the decision making processes that have thusfar had you avoid trying ECT. My best guess is that if you were to respond to ECT, you wouldn't spend too much time lamenting lost years. I think the wondrous feelings and ease of function that life can bring in the absense of depression will fill you with such gratitude, the grieving process won't be so protracted. You might come to terms with the loss fairly quickly.
Good luck with whatever you choose to do.
- Scott
Posted by Zeba on June 30, 2009, at 23:41:30
In reply to Re: ECT - Zeba (My Take)...))Ant-Rock, posted by Rdragon on June 30, 2009, at 8:29:35
Be careful thinking ECT will allow you to feel normal. I lost 26 IQ points, can't find my way places anymore, have word fluency and word retrieval problems, slowed processing of information, poor concentration and attention, and short term memory deficits to name a few.
I feel like Hemingway did before he committed suicide after undergoing ECT at Mayo. He said some famous quote about how the cure made it impossible for him to write again and so no career. He wasn't so depressed, but he could no longer write. He felt his life had been destroyed, and so he just could not go on.
As they say, be careful what you wish for.
Zeba
Posted by SLS on July 1, 2009, at 4:26:43
In reply to Re: ECT - Zeba (My Take)...))Ant-Rock » Rdragon, posted by Zeba on June 30, 2009, at 23:41:30
> Be careful thinking ECT will allow you to feel normal.
I underwent a series of 15 ECT treatments. I would neither endorse them nor condemn them at this point. Just as the application parameters of rTMS have been refined over the last decaded, so, too have those of ECT. However, I just don't trust that ECT will be a benign treatment for everyone. What seems to slip by peoples's attention, is that being very treatment resistent to antidepressant medication makes for a reduced prognosis that ECT will work. Still, if you have reached the end of the line pharmacologically, the choices are few:
1. ECT
2. VNS
3. rTMS
4. DBS
5. PsychotherapyI can't think of any more at the moment. Please add to this list, as I feel that I have reached the end of the line myself.
- Scott
Posted by linkadge on July 1, 2009, at 15:52:25
In reply to Re: ECT - Zeba (My Take)...))Ant-Rock, posted by Rdragon on June 30, 2009, at 8:29:35
>will DO WHATEVER it takes to be normal again (namely ECT).
Well, that is if you think ECT will make you "noraml" again. Even if it does induce some sort of improvement, it will be (from a statistics standpoint) only temporary.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on July 1, 2009, at 15:56:35
In reply to Re: ECT - Zeba (My Take)... » Ant-Rock, posted by SLS on June 30, 2009, at 21:37:11
>if you were to respond to ECT, you wouldn't >spend too much time lamenting lost years.
And if you don't respond? What happens when you relapse? Many people regret having ECT and do infact spend much time lamenting the decision and lamenting the fact that they don't have the memory or cognative capacity to do many of the things they used to. Plus, there is the depression on top of that to deal with.
>You might come to terms with the loss fairly >quickly.
Some might, some don't. Thats ECT for you. A crap shoot.
Linkadge
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