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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by psyclist123 on June 17, 2009, at 10:45:28
Is it true that the thyroid has a marked effect on medication. i.e. If your thyroid is low your medication will have a muted effect and if your thyroid is high your medication will have a more vibrant effect?
Posted by Phillipa on June 17, 2009, at 12:12:59
In reply to Thyroid, posted by psyclist123 on June 17, 2009, at 10:45:28
Seriously where did you read this. I found and pdoc confirmed that thyroid issues make depression/ anxiety much worse but haven't heard this theory. Thanks Phillipa
Posted by bleauberry on June 17, 2009, at 18:53:19
In reply to Thyroid, posted by psyclist123 on June 17, 2009, at 10:45:28
> Is it true that the thyroid has a marked effect on medication. i.e. If your thyroid is low your medication will have a muted effect and if your thyroid is high your medication will have a more vibrant effect?
While it is usually overlooked or not considered, and usually not even known, by general practitioners, I feel cortisol is much more powerful on efficacy of ADs than is thyroid. Though there is partnership interplay between both. Change one, the other follows. Takes time. Months.
Cortisol can be measured by the Adrenal Stress Index test which is a saliva sample taken 4 times throughout the day. Any other kind of one-time cortisol test is useless. You need to see the whole daily pattern, not just some random reading at some point in the day.
But yes, I do believe that when thyroid or cortisol or both are not in optimal ranges it does indeed effect how well things work, quite dramatically actually. I have my own experience to vouch for that.
The problem with thyroid measurements though is what is normal? I tell you, the so-called normal range they use is bogus. It is so wide and broad. Someone who falls smack in the middle of normal could actually display all the symptoms of hypothyroidism and respond very well to thyroid meds. The lab numbers, in the hands of real good doctors, are not the bible. They are merely a guide to see where we are now and to compare to from the future. Good docs use symptoms as a guide more than numbers. The numbers just help to paint the whole picture, but are by no means the definitive thing upon which decisions are made.
What is more important is that our thyroid is optimal...not just normal...but optimal. That involves looking at the relationship of T3, T4, and TSH, and symptoms, to see the bigger picture. Everyone's optimal numbers will be different. Normal is not good enough. It is too broad and it is a flawed range scale.
Posted by Phillipa on June 17, 2009, at 21:35:00
In reply to Re: Thyroid, posted by bleauberry on June 17, 2009, at 18:53:19
This is so true you have no idea. Me in a nutshell. Phillipa
Posted by psyclist123 on June 18, 2009, at 13:03:50
In reply to Re: Thyroid » psyclist123, posted by Phillipa on June 17, 2009, at 12:12:59
Hi Phillipa
See Assoc. Professor of Psychiatry,Toronto Universtiy, Dr A.G. Awad.
"Use of Thyroid Hormones in Treatment of Mental Illness
It is claimed that in the treatment of depression not related to any thyroid disturbance the addition of thyroxine may hasten and augment the effects of antidepressant drugs."
http://www.thyroid.ca/Articles/EngE10F.html
He doesn't go into it any further than this in the above article.
Alan
Posted by psyclist123 on June 18, 2009, at 13:29:50
In reply to Re: Thyroid, posted by bleauberry on June 17, 2009, at 18:53:19
Hi bleauberry
I went to the manufacturers of the assaying equipment to get some indication of the mean average thyroid activity...
"Expected Values
It is recommended that each laboratory establish its own reference intervals. The expected values presented here are based on testing of apparently healthy blood donors. Samples were measured in duplicates unseeing different kit lots.
In a population (n = 243) of adult female blood donors (ages: mean 37.8 ± 11.3, range 19 - 69) serum concentrations of FT4 were 14.26 ± 1.91 pmol/l (mean ± SD). Sample values were found scattered in a range of 10.1 22 pmol/l.
In a population (n = 243) of adult male blood donors (ages: mean 29.0 ± 10.5 range 19 - 61) serum concentrations of FT4 were 15.4 ± 2.32 pmol/l (mean ± SD). Sample values were found scattered in a range of 10.1 22.5 pmol/l.
For female and male (n = 486, ages: mean 33.4 ± 11.7, range 19 - 69) the serum concentration of FT4 was 14.83 ± 2.2 pmol/l (mean ± SD), range 10.1 22.5 pmol/l.
As a guide (mean ± 2*SD), 10.4 19.2 pmol/l reference range was obtained from normal patients based on statistical consideration only. Taking into consideration not only statistical results but clinical practice as well more realistic reference range of 10-22 pmol/l can be recommended."
http://www.izotop.hu/html/print/rk34c1.htm
another one...
http://www.genprice.com/t4_thyroxine_elisa.htm
Expected value for FT4 for a healthy person is 15.4 to 15.6 pmol/L. I suspect that the real value we want to look at is the T3.
Posted by psyclist123 on June 18, 2009, at 14:08:35
In reply to Re: Thyroid » psyclist123, posted by Phillipa on June 17, 2009, at 12:12:59
> Seriously where did you read this. I found and pdoc confirmed that thyroid issues make depression/ anxiety much worse but haven't heard this theory. Thanks Phillipa
Hi Phillipa, I have been doing a lot of research on thyroid and this is what I have picked up, or it may just be my interpretation of what I have read. Here is an interesting bit...
"Furthermore, T3 given as an adjunct to tricyclic antidepressant drug treatment speeds recovery in some patients with depression, especially women...."
Don't know if this has any relevance to you, Phillipa, but it illustrates the interconnection between the thyroid and the effectiveness of some medications.
Posted by Phillipa on June 18, 2009, at 21:59:53
In reply to Re: Thyroid, posted by psyclist123 on June 18, 2009, at 14:08:35
I think it also explains why so many women become hypothyroid during menopause. Figures ad's don't work as well in women. T4 synthroid used to work well in me. The hormone doc suggest armour any thoughts on this? Thanks Phillipa
Posted by psyclist123 on June 19, 2009, at 3:32:47
In reply to Re: Thyroid » psyclist123, posted by Phillipa on June 18, 2009, at 21:59:53
> I think it also explains why so many women become hypothyroid during menopause. Figures ad's don't work as well in women. T4 synthroid used to work well in me. The hormone doc suggest armour any thoughts on this? Thanks Phillipa
don't know anything about 'armour'. sorry Phillipa. i am just experimenting with Iodine supplements in the form of kelp tablets.
This is the end of the thread.
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