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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Rdragon on June 15, 2009, at 20:08:50
In reply to Re: ECT, posted by linkadge on June 15, 2009, at 16:53:16
> >I haven't tried mirapex, parnate, or >nortriptyline, but I have tried Lexapro, Prozac, >Zoloft, Paxil, Geodon, Seroquel, Abilify, and >Lamictal.
>
> Excuse me?? You want to undergo what could be irreversable brain damage before even trying any of the good medications? The medications you have tried are a waste of time. Clearly you don't respond medicatons that boost serotonin / lower dopamine.
>
> I don't think people really know what they're saying when they want ECT - especially when they havn't even tried medications that have a proven track record with treatment resistant depression. Obviously you are frustrated and hopeless - but come on, at least try a med with a little umph to it before resorting to ECT.
>
> If your doctor is honestly going to adminster ECT without even trying a TCA, MAOI, venlafaxine or dopamine agonist, he/she is *not* a very wise or prudent doctor.
>
> Linkadge
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Well it's ME who wants to administer the ECT, the doctor WAS going to recommend it, until both my parents said outright that they don't want me getting it, and the doctor sided with them.
I have to admit, I'm not thinking completely clearly in the state that I'm currently in, so I'm subject to carelessness when it comes to decisions regarding my health. I'm just so frustarated that SSRI's haven't worked like they did in the past. All I needed before was just Paxil and it worked beautifully. Now this time around, I seem to be resisting the SSRI's due to my "strange" symptoms. Here are some of my symptoms:
-Anhedonia
-Loss of some involuntary movements (eyes blinking; it seems like I have to manually blink or I have an altered eye blink rate)
-Low libido
-Head feels very light/like a feather almost
-Altered sense of surroundings/environment
-Altered sense of time
-No sense of pleasure/euphoriaSo you're suggesting that I try something like Parnate, Nardil, or maybe even Deprenyl? Out of the three, I think I'm going to try deprenyl first.
Here's the combo that I'm going to be on: Deprenyl, Lithium, and Geodon. I want to try Lithium because I've never tried it and I heard it's good for treatment-resistant depression.
Posted by Phillipa on June 15, 2009, at 22:40:43
In reply to Re: ECT, posted by Rdragon on June 15, 2009, at 20:08:50
Don't forget EMSAM lots of others have done well on this med. Expensive but it's a patch. Phillipa
Posted by morganpmiller on June 16, 2009, at 0:25:02
In reply to Re: ECT » Rdragon, posted by Phillipa on June 15, 2009, at 22:40:43
Hey thanks so much to everyone's responses. I am officially not going to consider ECT. I will be looking for a new psychiatrist.
I am bipolar. For 8 years I was on Zoloft alone and did quite well. I still had issues, but as long as I did the right things, I felt pretty damn good.
I am currently taking lithium and celexa. This is after I was on 9 other medications this past year and a half.
Right now, things are really bad. I was on Lamictal and just did not feel right. I had several reactions to it. I just never knew that getting off of it was going to be such a nitemare.
I am interested in Nardil and Parnate as long as I can take them with Lithium or Depakote.
It's so weird how you can feel so normal(well as normal as I could) on something like Zoloft for so many years. Then, get off zoloft thinking your better and don't need drugs because you worked so hare in therapy. Then a perfect storm comes together sending you into your first major mixed episode. I fear I have opened pandora's box. Over the past summer, I was actually only on zoloft again. I actually felt ok, though I was not were near as stable as I needed to be. But I at least felt fairly normal physiologically. That is not the case right now. I have so much more going on that is making living comfortably and feeling normal so much harder than it would be if it were just my mental health. I think that is one of the reason's why this bipolar thing has exploded into what it is. I can't cover things up by going to the gym, playing basketball, and going out and drinking with friends. I am a physical wreck in a very short period of time. Not cool at all. I'm only 36 and I feel like 80. Very overwhelming since I was so active and comfortable just a few years ago. Now, I am going on a bit of a rant.
What are the side effects like with Nardil and Parnate? Are they effective at all for anxiety/obsessive thoughts? Can they help with nerve pain?
Can anyone share their experiences with these meds? There was a combo a few of you mentioned, I can't remember what it was in my impaired state.Also, Anyone live in the DC metro area. I need a good psychiatrist. That jack *ss talked about ECT for 20 minutes the last time I saw him. Gonna have to fire his *ss
Posted by alchemy on June 16, 2009, at 1:04:23
In reply to Re: ECT, posted by morganpmiller on June 16, 2009, at 0:25:02
ECT is usually for when you are REALLY bad & need help FAST. I have been really bad twice. The first time my dr. didn't recommended it. I did research & talked to some people. I was DESPERATE and asked for it. With 5-6 treatments I felt better than I ever have in my life. Unfortunately I went back down to my normal depressed state.
The 2nd time I was also desperate (Geodon for me = very bad). I got a hold of my psych over the weekend. He called during my Sunday birthday dinner and said there was a cancellation and I could in tomorrow. Thank god. I also got better with just a few treatments.
Posted by morganpmiller on June 16, 2009, at 1:25:21
In reply to ECT was good for me, posted by alchemy on June 16, 2009, at 1:04:23
> ECT is usually for when you are REALLY bad & need help FAST. I have been really bad twice. The first time my dr. didn't recommended it. I did research & talked to some people. I was DESPERATE and asked for it. With 5-6 treatments I felt better than I ever have in my life. Unfortunately I went back down to my normal depressed state.
> The 2nd time I was also desperate (Geodon for me = very bad). I got a hold of my psych over the weekend. He called during my Sunday birthday dinner and said there was a cancellation and I could in tomorrow. Thank god. I also got better with just a few treatments.Thanks and thanks for finding me in this thread.
So I guess you couldn't follow up with meds to maintaing the feeling post ECT? Is the treatment somewhat long term? I guess it kept you out of the deep depression for a while. Did you have bilateral? I'm assuming you did.
Posted by alchemy on June 16, 2009, at 1:46:05
In reply to Re: ECT was good for me, posted by morganpmiller on June 16, 2009, at 1:25:21
> So I guess you couldn't follow up with meds to maintaing the feeling post ECT?
- Unfortunately not. I have been depressed & on meds for about 20 years. I'm on a fairly good regimin now considering my past & my drug trials, but it's not good enough.
> Is the treatment somewhat long term? I guess it kept you out of the deep depression for a while.
- The short term treatment lifted me out of a black hole permanently. The "high" effects decreased, but not to the black hole.
For me, long term treatment doesn't seem to be real beneficial. But I know of one person that gets a monthly "fix". Kitty Dukakis has a book called 'Shocked' where she doesn't take meds and just gets "shocked" when she feels her bipolar coming on.>Did you have bilateral? I'm assuming you did.
- I think I said bilateral, but I meant unilateral (just one side). I don't think many drs to bilateral.
Posted by morganpmiller on June 16, 2009, at 2:16:39
In reply to Re: ECT was good for me, posted by alchemy on June 16, 2009, at 1:46:05
Thanks alchemy! I am still concerned about it. I wish there were not so many other horror stories.
Bilateral is often usually used for severe cases. It is supposed to be more effective but more invasive.
If there were no possible long term effects on cognition/memory, I would already be getting treatments.
Posted by Alexanderfromdenmark on June 16, 2009, at 8:04:26
In reply to Re: ECT, posted by Rdragon on June 15, 2009, at 20:08:50
> > >I haven't tried mirapex, parnate, or >nortriptyline, but I have tried Lexapro, Prozac, >Zoloft, Paxil, Geodon, Seroquel, Abilify, and >Lamictal.
> >
> > Excuse me?? You want to undergo what could be irreversable brain damage before even trying any of the good medications? The medications you have tried are a waste of time. Clearly you don't respond medicatons that boost serotonin / lower dopamine.
> >
> > I don't think people really know what they're saying when they want ECT - especially when they havn't even tried medications that have a proven track record with treatment resistant depression. Obviously you are frustrated and hopeless - but come on, at least try a med with a little umph to it before resorting to ECT.
> >
> > If your doctor is honestly going to adminster ECT without even trying a TCA, MAOI, venlafaxine or dopamine agonist, he/she is *not* a very wise or prudent doctor.
> >
> > Linkadge
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> Well it's ME who wants to administer the ECT, the doctor WAS going to recommend it, until both my parents said outright that they don't want me getting it, and the doctor sided with them.
>
> I have to admit, I'm not thinking completely clearly in the state that I'm currently in, so I'm subject to carelessness when it comes to decisions regarding my health. I'm just so frustarated that SSRI's haven't worked like they did in the past. All I needed before was just Paxil and it worked beautifully. Now this time around, I seem to be resisting the SSRI's due to my "strange" symptoms. Here are some of my symptoms:
>
> -Anhedonia
> -Loss of some involuntary movements (eyes blinking; it seems like I have to manually blink or I have an altered eye blink rate)
> -Low libido
> -Head feels very light/like a feather almost
> -Altered sense of surroundings/environment
> -Altered sense of time
> -No sense of pleasure/euphoria
>
> So you're suggesting that I try something like Parnate, Nardil, or maybe even Deprenyl? Out of the three, I think I'm going to try deprenyl first.
>
> Here's the combo that I'm going to be on: Deprenyl, Lithium, and Geodon. I want to try Lithium because I've never tried it and I heard it's good for treatment-resistant depression.
I think you need to try meds that works strongly on dopamine. From what I hear about parnate, I think you should give it a try.
Posted by alchemy on June 16, 2009, at 11:02:09
In reply to Re: ECT was good for me, posted by morganpmiller on June 16, 2009, at 2:16:39
Ya, ECT is scary and a hard decision. There are some people who don't have good stories. I didn't have any cognition problems (that's not usually a side effect) - I'm still as smart as I use to be :). But the memory problems (a common effect) could be an issue.
I suggest finding some unbiased information. There is the web & probably some books. My decision came from how miserable I was (caused by med trials that made me worse) and talking to some people that had done it (hearing first hand their positive stories). I would do it again if I ever became that bad.
Good luck.
Posted by terrysb on June 16, 2009, at 23:32:34
In reply to Re: ECT, posted by morganpmiller on June 16, 2009, at 0:25:02
I live in the DC area (Northern Va.). If you want a recommendation let me know. I'm still new here so not sure how to convey something privately.
Posted by morganpmiller on June 17, 2009, at 1:04:52
In reply to Re: ECT » morganpmiller, posted by terrysb on June 16, 2009, at 23:32:34
Thank you so much! I could give you my email? Then everyone would have it but I don't really care. Or, it you aren't comfortable with that you can just tell me here. I don't care. Unless you don't want to reveal your doctor or the doctor's name on this forum. I may be going into the hospital in the next few days so I might be good. I would still love to get a recommendation.
Posted by alchemy on June 17, 2009, at 10:35:59
In reply to Re: ECT, posted by morganpmiller on June 17, 2009, at 1:04:52
another fyi, when I was briefly in the hospital, one of the workers mentioned that he had seen how helpful ect was. He said it was like the seizures somehow rejumbled your brain into a better state. (for most people, not all)
Posted by terrysb on June 17, 2009, at 15:19:15
In reply to Re: ECT, posted by morganpmiller on June 17, 2009, at 1:04:52
If you could put up your email I will contact you.
Posted by Phillipa on June 17, 2009, at 19:58:03
In reply to Re: ECT » morganpmiller, posted by terrysb on June 17, 2009, at 15:19:15
Your babblemail is on his isn't if you both use babblemail it will be private. Phillipa
Posted by terrysb on June 17, 2009, at 20:45:15
In reply to Re: ECT, posted by morganpmiller on June 17, 2009, at 1:04:52
> Thank you so much! I could give you my email?
Turn on your babblemail and I will send you the information.
Posted by morganpmiller on June 17, 2009, at 23:18:39
In reply to Re: ECT, posted by terrysb on June 17, 2009, at 20:45:15
Ok, I'm not functioning great right now and need a tip on how to turn on my Babblemail.
Posted by terrysb on June 17, 2009, at 23:54:57
In reply to Re: ECT, posted by morganpmiller on June 17, 2009, at 23:18:39
Follow the registration link and update your registration. There should be a check box that lets you turn babblemail on.
Posted by morganpmiller on June 18, 2009, at 5:35:12
In reply to Re: ECT » morganpmiller, posted by terrysb on June 17, 2009, at 23:54:57
> Follow the registration link and update your registration. There should be a check box that lets you turn babblemail on.
Yeah I thought it was as simple as that. I was just feeling like a pile of crap earlier. Mixed state combined with headache and fatigue not good. I did it. So you can babblemail me now. I appreciate it!
Posted by terrysb on June 18, 2009, at 17:50:26
In reply to Re: ECT, posted by morganpmiller on June 18, 2009, at 5:35:12
> So you can babblemail me now. I appreciate it!
Sent. If you don't get it post here again.
Posted by linkadge on June 19, 2009, at 17:10:10
In reply to Re: ECT was good for me, posted by morganpmiller on June 16, 2009, at 1:25:21
Even if ECT does work in the short term, why would you take something that is not going to have a lasting effect and *may* exert neurotoxic effects (possible worsening the long term prognosis?)
I mean if you just want a short term boost why not try psychostimulant augmentation. It probably produce less collateral dammage.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on June 19, 2009, at 17:13:54
In reply to Re: ECT, posted by Alexanderfromdenmark on June 16, 2009, at 8:04:26
When people are depressed they just look for the evidence that *they* want to see and hear.
If I want to hear that ECT is safe and effective, I can find evidence that it is. If I want to find evidence that it causes damage, I can find it.
I can understand your pain, but just don't get tunnle vision over something like this. I find a lot of people get tunnle vision when they are depressed.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on June 19, 2009, at 17:19:28
In reply to Re: ECT, posted by alchemy on June 17, 2009, at 10:35:59
>another fyi, when I was briefly in the hospital, >one of the workers mentioned that he had seen >how helpful ect was. He said it was like the >seizures somehow rejumbled your brain into a >better state. (for most people, not all)
Well thats where the debate starts. Seeing as most of the positive data was done by a man who had strong financial ties to a company which manufactures ECT machines, I'd say there is *serious* need for reinvestigation of the data.
More recent data suggests that earlier statistics could be moderatly to drastically overblown. Also, there is evidence that the collection of data regarding cognative side effects has been significantly compromised.
I know several people who have had ECT, many of whom would say they would not do it again.
For goodness sakes, shop around. Don't just look for one sucess story and bank on that. You can probably find personal accounts of you-tube.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on June 19, 2009, at 17:21:18
In reply to Re: ECT, posted by linkadge on June 19, 2009, at 17:19:28
But you probably don't want to hear that.
Linkadge
Posted by Rdragon on June 19, 2009, at 22:36:14
In reply to Re: ECT, posted by linkadge on June 19, 2009, at 17:21:18
Look, the only reason I'm even contemplating ECT is because for me, it really is THAT bad. I've had thoughts of suicide cross my mind, and this has messed up EVERYTHING from my blinking to my pleasure. I just don't know if medicine is going to cut it. But yeah, my freaking blinking is messed up, that's a huge indicator that something is really, really wrong.
Posted by Zeba on June 20, 2009, at 0:55:24
In reply to Re: ECT, posted by Rdragon on June 19, 2009, at 22:36:14
I do not post here much anymore, but the ECT posting caught my attention.
I had ECT, Right unilateral, over two years ago. I had 7 treatments and quit as I was getting really confused and disoriented, and it was not clearing up. I just finished neuropsychological testing and saw a behavioral neurologist. I have cognitive deficts now that have not gottent better like word retrieval problems, slow processing of information, word fluency problems, lots of visual-spatial problems, can't read and retain anything new now for more than 24 hours. I too like someone else have to do mapquest whenever I am going somewhere as I get really disoriented. I have right-left spatial problems, and I could go on. I have been diagnosed with ECT cognitive decline. Lost over 20 IQ points. Not one bit funny.
Believe me if you think you are suicidal now or getting there, think about what it would be like to be suicidal and brain damaged.
I later took Parnate at a higher dose than the Pdoc I had was willing to do. He just kept pushing ECT which I finally gave in to and did. Parnate worked very well for me, and now I am no longer on any antidepressant medications as I have a really good analyst I see. I am also starting cognitive rehabilitation with a neuropsyhcologst/rehab specialist next week.
My neurologist said I had certain vulnerabilities that made me even more susceptible to damage from ECT. These include two concussions when I was younger, a family history of Parkinson's on both sides of my family, and also some other things. He said no one escapes memory deficits from ECT. They will tell you that it is only for the time right before and after the ECT, but they now also are seeing that the new parameters are not necessarily better, and the anesthetics mean you need a higher charge, etc. I had five times the seizure threshold level. I would not recommend that to anyone. Now brain damaged.
Zeba
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