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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Andy Behrman on May 30, 2009, at 2:17:30
Check out this story of Abilify:
Posted by greywolf on May 30, 2009, at 3:04:57
In reply to Abilify Experiences, posted by Andy Behrman on May 30, 2009, at 2:17:30
I can only go with my own experience. On Abilify for several months, and during that time I didn't experience a single side effect. I also did not experience a single benefit. It was like popping a Tic-Tac.
So now I'm on Cytomel and I can actually tell it's doing something at least slightly positive.
While I appreciate the intent of the people making the video, it seems a little light on verifiable facts regarding Abilify deaths. Unfortunately, I think the video is going to scare more people than it helps.
My rule is always this: if you have a concern about a treatment regime, get on the phone with your doctor and discuss your concerns. Believe me, these psychiatrists want to preserve their licenses and insurance at all costs, and the intelligent ones are not going to take a chance prescribing a medication if they know or suspect that, if used properly, it may still kill their patients.
Greywolf
Posted by SLS on May 30, 2009, at 6:41:10
In reply to Abilify Experiences, posted by Andy Behrman on May 30, 2009, at 2:17:30
> Check out this story of Abilify:
>You are persistent, I'll grant you that.
I tend to be persistent as well. I'm not sure that this is always a good thing, though.
To remain persistent, I would again like for you to answer the question I posed along another thread you started:
What was YOUR experience with Abilify?
You are obviously not in a coma, and probably not dead. So, what happened?
I am not intimating that you were without adverse effects. I just feel that it would be a nice gesture on your part to participate here by interacting with the community rather than posting a URL link all over the board.
- Scott
Posted by Andy Behrman on May 30, 2009, at 11:14:19
In reply to Re: Abilify Experiences » Andy Behrman, posted by SLS on May 30, 2009, at 6:41:10
My experience on Abilify was that after about a month I began experiencing side effects including akathasia - - a common one on this drug - - which was particularly disturbing. I was beyond restless - - and I couldn't get comfortable. But a worse side effect was my poor cognitive skills - - a combination of memory loss and confusion. Both of these side effects caused me tremendous suffering - - set me back - - and I had no choice but to discontinue use of Abilify, which I still say, was the worst drug of 38 that I have been on.
I hope that this has been helpful to you.
Posted by Phillipa on May 30, 2009, at 11:32:57
In reply to Re: Abilify Experiences, posted by Andy Behrman on May 30, 2009, at 11:14:19
But you're fine now . What meds are you now taking? Phillipa
Posted by Cass on May 30, 2009, at 16:07:56
In reply to Re: Abilify Experiences » Andy Behrman, posted by Phillipa on May 30, 2009, at 11:32:57
I took abilify briefly to augment my antidepressant. I couldn't stand it. It was just like being stoned on pot, which is a feeling I don't like. I felt so altered. My energy rythms were all messed up, too. One second I couldn't sit still, the next second I felt lethargic - back and forth, back and forth. I didn't feel comfortably physically no matter what chair I was in. It was a very unpleasant experience. I even asked my friend to drive because I didn't feel like I was safe to drive.
Posted by yxibow on May 30, 2009, at 18:01:50
In reply to Re: Abilify Experiences, posted by Andy Behrman on May 30, 2009, at 11:14:19
> My experience on Abilify was that after about a month I began experiencing side effects including akathasia - - a common one on this drug - - which was particularly disturbing.
Wait... common... side.. effect ? A common side effect of downing an NSAID is heartburb.
I was beyond restless - - and I couldn't get comfortable.Akathisia'll do that to you.
But a worse side effect was my poor cognitive skills - - a combination of memory loss and confusion.
Blunting -- a surprisingly effective -effect- for those with violent psychosis, an unpleasant side effect for alot of other people. And a common one.
Both of these side effects caused me tremendous suffering - - set me back - - and I had no choice but to discontinue use of Abilify, which I still say, was the worst drug of 38 that I have been on.
38 ? You can really remember each side effect that seems to be obsessively rendered in this video for all those 37 other medications you've tried and know all those medications by heart too ?I know no medication that doesn't come without a side effect even if you don't recognize it.
And yes, if you really are the "Andy Behrman" who has posted these videos and been interview, etc... why not interact with the community here instead of spawning thread after thread (which is a kind of no-no anyhow because after a while people get the point.... wait a while, then see what happens).-- tidings
Jay
Posted by SLS on May 30, 2009, at 20:50:49
In reply to Re: Abilify Experiences, posted by Andy Behrman on May 30, 2009, at 11:14:19
> My experience on Abilify was that after about a month I began experiencing side effects including akathasia
That's interesting. I experienced a mild akathisia within the first week, but it dissipated by the end of the second week. I began treatment at 20mg.
> - - a common one on this drug - -
Yes. It is.
> which was particularly disturbing. I was beyond restless - - and I couldn't get comfortable.
I can't completely empathize with you because I have not experienced akathisia to such a degree.
> But a worse side effect was my poor cognitive skills - - a combination of memory loss and confusion.
These are side effects of a great many drugs. They are unwanted, of course, but are sometimes worth the trade off. A large percentage of the people here on Psycho-Babble have experienced them.
> Both of these side effects caused me tremendous suffering - - set me back - - and I had no choice but to discontinue use of Abilify, which I still say, was the worst drug of 38 that I have been on.
Abilify has been one of the best of the 60+ I have been on. I think it is a mistake to generalize onto the majority the effects a drug has on one individual.
> I hope that this has been helpful to you.
Yes, it has. Thanks.
- Scott
Posted by emme on May 30, 2009, at 21:10:33
In reply to Re: Abilify Experiences, posted by Andy Behrman on May 30, 2009, at 11:14:19
I am sorry you had a bad experience with Abilify. I am curious as to your goal with these threads? Are you attempting to dissuade others from trying this drug? Are you attempting to convince those who are successfully taking it to stop?
Your experience cannot be generalized to the general population and although some people will experience some of the negative side effects you did, others will not.
My own experience has been positive. The antidepressant benefits have been much more durable for me than with regular antidepressants. I have experienced NO akathisia, startup insomnia resolved itself, and the cognitive effects aren't bad at a low dose. I credit it (plus Lamictal) with allowing me to work and play.
I would encourage people who, in consultation with their doctors, are considering this drug to be aware of POSSIBLE side effects, try it, and see how it works out for them. We are all individuals.
Posted by Andy Behrman on May 30, 2009, at 21:14:46
In reply to Re: Abilify Experiences » Andy Behrman, posted by emme on May 30, 2009, at 21:10:33
I am urging people to ask EVERY question about every drug prescribed by their doctor - - not to dissuade them for taking drugs.
And those questions include side effects, benefits, complications, alternatives and dosages.
I'm using Abiify as an example because of all the drugs that I've tried, it's had the worst effect on me.
It's important to understand that doctors don't always make choices of meds to prescribe based on what they think will work best for a patient, as in my case. My doctor, Dr. Mark Frye (google him), changed by regimen after thirteen years to Abilify. I had a bad experience. He ended up being the medical consultant to Bristol Myers Squibb for Abilify.
Coincidence, I think not.
Posted by 10derHeart on May 30, 2009, at 22:05:51
In reply to Re: Abilify Experiences, posted by Andy Behrman on May 30, 2009, at 21:14:46
But you were actively participating in your own medical treatment decisions, right? Did you agree with the change? I can't imagine the doctor forced it on you, but if so, I apologize for the assumption. If you were reluctant, how did he convince you to take Abilify?
Did you ask for a change because your 13-year regimen wasn't working?
Just trying to understand what you are saying.....
Posted by Andy Behrman on May 30, 2009, at 22:12:11
In reply to Re: Abilify Experiences » Andy Behrman, posted by 10derHeart on May 30, 2009, at 22:05:51
Thanks for the question, first of all.
But my regime, which had been Depakote for more than a decade, was arbritraily changed by Dr. Mark Frye (mfrye@mayo.edu) - - now at the Mayo Clinic. He just thought that Abilify would be much better for me. He was wrong. But he was also the medical consultant to BMS for Abilify (perhaps a conflict of interest?). He knew that I had side effects. But he gave me other meds to fight off those side efffects (Klonopin and Propanol). Since Dr. Frye won't speak to the media (and I have given him clearance), it's a bit suspcious. So feel free to write to him and ask him why as a doctor he would take me off this regimen if it was working for me. I'm serious. He should be accountable and he won't even speak with me. He should be scared. He didn't keep accurate medical records and never even noted that he put me on Abilify until four months later. Write to Dr. Frye at mfrye@mayo.edu
Perhaps he'll explain it on this forum.
But he's probably in hiding by now.
Posted by yxibow on May 30, 2009, at 22:22:14
In reply to Re: Abilify Experiences, posted by Andy Behrman on May 30, 2009, at 22:12:11
> Thanks for the question, first of all.
>
> But my regime, which had been Depakote for more than a decade, was arbritraily changed by Dr. Mark Frye (mfrye@mayo.edu) - - now at the Mayo Clinic. He just thought that Abilify would be much better for me. He was wrong. But he was also the medical consultant to BMS for Abilify (perhaps a conflict of interest?). He knew that I had side effects. But he gave me other meds to fight off those side efffects (Klonopin and Propanol). Since Dr. Frye won't speak to the media (and I have given him clearance), it's a bit suspcious. So feel free to write to him and ask him why as a doctor he would take me off this regimen if it was working for me. I'm serious. He should be accountable and he won't even speak with me. He should be scared. He didn't keep accurate medical records and never even noted that he put me on Abilify until four months later. Write to Dr. Frye at mfrye@mayo.edu
>
> Perhaps he'll explain it on this forum.
>
> But he's probably in hiding by now.Yes, on the grassy knoll.
[sarcasm off, nothing meant terribly offensive but this is going a bit far and using the forum for purposes other than back and forth discussion]
Nobody FORCED you to take medication.
I know you may have gone through difficulties, I can tell you all about my troubles but I really don't see the relevance to this, and we can all appreciate this.
It also really isn't a good idea to drop names of doctors on a forum that is open to the public, but there appears to be an agenda here anyhow and so you've already waived your HIPAA privacy rights many times over.
There is no need to use this forum as a soapbox so people can spam Dr. Mark Frye, who has no criminal record or complaints for his medical licenses in California and Minnesota (you can verify this if you so choose).
-- Jay
Posted by Andy Behrman on May 30, 2009, at 22:24:46
In reply to Re: Abilify Experiences » Andy Behrman, posted by yxibow on May 30, 2009, at 22:22:14
What's wrong with mentioning the name of Dr. Mark Frye on this forum? He refused to speak to the Wall Street Journal not only as my doctor, but as the former medical consultant to Bristol Myers Squibb.
Dr. Frye is only one of many doctors guilty of the same type of patient abuse.
Posted by 10derHeart on May 30, 2009, at 22:55:25
In reply to Re: Abilify Experiences, posted by Andy Behrman on May 30, 2009, at 22:12:11
Thanks, but I was genuinely interested in your role in this, not so much his. What you said and did, etc. But perhaps you choose not to reveal that.
No further replies to me needed - I think I understand a lot better now.
I hope you find whatever it is you are looking for through all this.
Posted by greywolf on May 31, 2009, at 22:52:59
In reply to Re: Abilify Experiences » Andy Behrman, posted by emme on May 30, 2009, at 21:10:33
> I would encourage people who, in consultation with their doctors, are considering this drug to be aware of POSSIBLE side effects, try it, and see how it works out for them. We are all individuals.That's basically how it should work with all meds. For instance, Parnate and Cytomel give me horrible insomnia. Parnate gives me chills so bad that I'm wearing a sweater when its 80 degrees and everyone else is in short sleeves. But I've experienced worse, and the mix of meds I'm on right now is at least helping a little. So I choose to endure side effects. Other people might not go the same route, but that's for them to decide in consultation with their doctors. And it might help to read the literature on the drugs you're taking. The laundry lists of disclosed side effects can be very interesting.
Greywolf
Posted by SLS on June 1, 2009, at 5:28:55
In reply to Abilify Experiences, posted by Andy Behrman on May 30, 2009, at 2:17:30
Unfortunately, without the ability to test for endophenotypes at this juncture, doctors have little else to go on but educated guesses. I imagine your doctor at the time genuinely believed that Abilify would help you. I don't think he believed it would hurt you. If he did, why would he give it to you and open a Pandora's box of potential legal problems? Do you think he would actually make that much money off of one patient to take such a risk? Do you think having a history of stubbornly giving out Abilify to all of his patients with them becoming seriously ill on it or dying would help him maintain an outstanding reputation and allow him to continue to make money? I fail to see the logic in blaming this doctor of arranging a conspiracy with a drug company to feed all of his patients a drug that he knows would hurt them.
There have been several drugs amongst the 60+ that I have taken that have hurt me terribly. I have seen these same drugs help others. Why would I blame the drug company for my unique biology? Do you see where I'm going with this?
You are really evaluating the system, but are not properly evaluating the drug.
- Scott
Posted by Sigismund on June 2, 2009, at 0:47:32
In reply to Re: Abilify Experiences, posted by greywolf on May 31, 2009, at 22:52:59
>But I've experienced worse, and the mix of meds I'm on right now is at least helping a little. So I choose to endure side effects.
Maybe I just expect too much, yaknow? Or maybe not?
Posted by SLS on June 2, 2009, at 5:32:33
In reply to Re: Abilify Experiences, posted by Sigismund on June 2, 2009, at 0:47:32
> >But I've experienced worse, and the mix of meds I'm on right now is at least helping a little. So I choose to endure side effects.
>
> Maybe I just expect too much, yaknow? Or maybe not?Don't expect too much, but don't settle for too little.
I seem to be stuck at a wall of a 35% improvement. I don't expect that this will improve over time. However, I am not resigned to accept it as it being "as good as it gets". What I think I am going to do for now is to keep my core treatment of 4 drugs in place and try something new every now and then to attempt to get me closer to 100%. The higher I go, the more content I will become. I imagine there will be a point below 100% that I will be willing to settle for.
- Scott
This is the end of the thread.
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