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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Zana on March 26, 2009, at 8:14:06
Anybody else out there taking seroquel wake up in a panic? I take remeron, seroquel and klonopin at night. When I was taking remeron without seroquel I would sleep for 9 hours and wake up fine - depressed but not panicked. Since adding the seroquel I wake up after 6hrs, take a klonopin to try to get back to sleep and then wake up in this terrible, panicked state. I know I could just get up but even though the seroquel is helping with my depression I am still too depressed to face such a long day.
Any help will be apprechiated.
Zana
Posted by myco on March 26, 2009, at 12:08:55
In reply to Seroquel Panic Help!, posted by Zana on March 26, 2009, at 8:14:06
I have experienced panic and increased anxiety occassionally with my use of seroquel, even at 25-50mg, for sleep. I can't offer a proper biochemical response here though except an interection between those two. Are you willing to change the seroquel? I know that others on here prefer zyprexa, which is another new AP like seroquel, for anxiety and sleep help. It's been decribed as "cleaner" in feel. I'm sorry I cant offer more help here...dont be affraid to ask for a change...seroquel beings me down a lil and I want to rid it from my med regimen but my gp is phobic of alot of meds and zyprexa is not in his cards for me so i'm stuck until I get a proper pdoc....dont allow yourself to get stuck if seroquel doesnt work the way you want it. There are posts above somewhere that speak of similar issues...seroquel and anxiety problems.
myco
> Anybody else out there taking seroquel wake up in a panic? I take remeron, seroquel and klonopin at night. When I was taking remeron without seroquel I would sleep for 9 hours and wake up fine - depressed but not panicked. Since adding the seroquel I wake up after 6hrs, take a klonopin to try to get back to sleep and then wake up in this terrible, panicked state. I know I could just get up but even though the seroquel is helping with my depression I am still too depressed to face such a long day.
> Any help will be apprechiated.
> Zana
Posted by Phillipa on March 26, 2009, at 12:34:47
In reply to Re: Seroquel Panic Help! » Zana, posted by myco on March 26, 2009, at 12:08:55
So strange as 12.5 mg put me out during the day. And with benzos at night at 50mg was so drunk and dizzy doc took me off immediately. How can it act so differently in different people? Didn't used to hear of anxiety did it go generic or something? Love Phillipa
Posted by Zana on March 26, 2009, at 15:28:23
In reply to Re: Seroquel Panic Help! » Zana, posted by myco on March 26, 2009, at 12:08:55
Than for your support. My pdoc has mentioned zyprexa as an alternative to seroquel. She also said that I would definitely gain weight on it which, how stupid is this? has put me off trying it. But it think I will push for a change. I think you are right about that.
Zana
Posted by Zana on March 26, 2009, at 15:34:40
In reply to Re: Seroquel Panic Help!, posted by Phillipa on March 26, 2009, at 12:34:47
Hi Phillipa! I have read so many of your posts. Thank you for responding to mine. It is frustrating that drugs do such different things to different people. The whole drug thing is frustrating. Actually, its been kind of traumatizing. Its awful to take something, feel relief from the prison of depression and anxiety and then have it poop out. I've been through so many ups and downs and tried so many different meds. I'm just about at the end of the road I think.I mean I'm afraid there are only a few meds I haven't tried. It's tough. Thanx for your interest. I always look for your posts.
Zana
Posted by bleauberry on March 26, 2009, at 17:17:24
In reply to Seroquel Panic Help!, posted by Zana on March 26, 2009, at 8:14:06
> Anybody else out there taking seroquel wake up in a panic?
In my earlier days on antipsychotics they did not do this to me. Now Zyprexa, Seroquel, or Abilify do. It is quite frightening isn't it? Harmless enough, yet profoundly uncomfortable. Makes me wonder what kind of trauma I am subjecting my nervous system and hormones to when I just tough it at each waking.
>I take remeron, seroquel and klonopin at night. When I was taking remeron without seroquel I would sleep for 9 hours and wake up fine - depressed but not panicked.
Despite the distorted view of remeron being a great antidepressant in clinical trials, few clinicians I am aware of have been able to duplicate those good results. When they do, it is usually in the 45mg range. If it isn't helping with your depression, logic begs the question why continue with it. Maybe a decent sleep med for you, but obviously not much else. Maybe consider adding a different antidepressant?
>Since adding the seroquel I wake up after 6hrs, take a klonopin to try to get back to sleep and then wake up in this terrible, panicked state. I know I could just get up but even though the seroquel is helping with my depression I am still too depressed to face such a long day.
Too depressed to face the day despite those particular meds. Yeah, I would definitely keep putting a lot of time and faith into those meds. Not. It boggles my mind sometimes how people just stay with something that obviously is not bringing them anywhere close to a 50% improvement (clinical study success), or better, remission.
But I have been guilty of that in the past too. Just not any more.
> Any help will be apprechiated.
> ZanaIt is just my theory without any backing that when antipsychotics cause that panic, or maybe something similar in the akathisia department, it is a complex interplay between the stimulated norepinephrine/adrenaline release (alpha2 antagonism) in combination with unknown weird things that happen when dopamine and serotonin receptors are blocked, in addition to the effects of these meds on cortisol.
In any case, I think your body and your own logic is telling you this whole cocktail is off in the wrong direction for you. Maybe clonopin is a keeper, I don't know but you do, but the others I personally would already be planning my weaning strategy to get off and planning my next med to try.
But that's just me. Just sharing another's view.
One final bit of advice. Insist on brand name meds. They are worth the cost in many cases.
Posted by nellie7 on March 27, 2009, at 6:47:51
In reply to Seroquel Panic Help!, posted by Zana on March 26, 2009, at 8:14:06
Antipsychotics can cause or worsen depression. Panic attacks can also be related to depression.
Posted by myco on March 27, 2009, at 11:25:52
In reply to Re: Seroquel Panic Help!, posted by nellie7 on March 27, 2009, at 6:47:51
Nellie7 can you explain this a bit more. So it's not just me then when I notice that although seroquel is good for sleep it makes my mood dark during the morn-mid afternoon next day. Do you happen to know why or how? I'll try to educate my GP regarding this...he likes real science backing over rumour.
thnks,
myco----------------
>
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> Antipsychotics can cause or worsen depression. Panic attacks can also be related to depression.
>
>
>
Posted by nellie7 on March 28, 2009, at 12:31:52
In reply to Re: Seroquel Panic Help! » nellie7, posted by myco on March 27, 2009, at 11:25:52
> Nellie7 can you explain this a bit more. So it's not just me then when I notice that although seroquel is good for sleep it makes my mood dark during the morn-mid afternoon next day. Do you happen to know why or how? I'll try to educate my GP regarding this...he likes real science backing over rumour.
>Hi,
I think that any tranquilizer can cause or worsen depression. I have personally experienced this with benzos such as klonopin (in combination with an AD) and with various antipsychotics.
I don't really understand the reason for this. With APs it could be the blocking of dopamine. I think some of the newer antipsychotics block certain serotonin receptors as well, if I'm not mistaken. I don't know.
There have been messages on this board regarding the depressing effect of tranquilizers, so it must be a common side effect. Apparently some people are more sensitive than others in this respect.
Myco, do you take antidepressants as well?Nellie.
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> > Antipsychotics can cause or worsen depression. Panic attacks can also be related to depression.
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Posted by myco on March 28, 2009, at 12:42:08
In reply to Re: Seroquel Panic Help! » myco, posted by nellie7 on March 28, 2009, at 12:31:52
Hey,
Yes benzo's do this to me also...great relaxers like seroquel but when I wake up I'm feeling down. Yes I take Nardil (a MAOI AD). This med usually energizes me and makes me jump out of bed with a smile and not wake up in anxiety sweats and confusion...it's been a real life changer for me. But the ongoing issue of my sleep meds adding depression the next day I dont find tolerable...well at least not in the long run...I know I must take bad with good to some degree with meds. But I want to feel as best I can...so hense the want to rid all sleep aids I use and get something completely different...but dont know what to use because gp has issues about sleep aids and MAOI sleep meds are somewhat limited.
---------------
> Hi,
> I think that any tranquilizer can cause or worsen depression. I have personally experienced this with benzos such as klonopin (in combination with an AD) and with various antipsychotics.
> I don't really understand the reason for this. With APs it could be the blocking of dopamine. I think some of the newer antipsychotics block certain serotonin receptors as well, if I'm not mistaken. I don't know.
> There have been messages on this board regarding the depressing effect of tranquilizers, so it must be a common side effect. Apparently some people are more sensitive than others in this respect.
> Myco, do you take antidepressants as well?
>
> Nellie.
>
>
> >
> > ----------------
> > >
> > >
> > > Antipsychotics can cause or worsen depression. Panic attacks can also be related to depression.
> > >
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> > >
> >
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>
Posted by myco on March 28, 2009, at 12:47:07
In reply to Re: Seroquel Panic Help! » myco, posted by nellie7 on March 28, 2009, at 12:31:52
On the advice of someone here on the board I'm currently looking into zyprexa (a med I had discussed with dr but he wasnt convinced of usefulless in sleep). Plus i'm also gonna take bleauberries advice on changing the "brand" of seroquel I use....from the canadian generic back to the original brand name seroquel, despite the added cost. That change is the easiest to start with.
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> > Nellie7 can you explain this a bit more. So it's not just me then when I notice that although seroquel is good for sleep it makes my mood dark during the morn-mid afternoon next day. Do you happen to know why or how? I'll try to educate my GP regarding this...he likes real science backing over rumour.
> >
>
> Hi,
> I think that any tranquilizer can cause or worsen depression. I have personally experienced this with benzos such as klonopin (in combination with an AD) and with various antipsychotics.
> I don't really understand the reason for this. With APs it could be the blocking of dopamine. I think some of the newer antipsychotics block certain serotonin receptors as well, if I'm not mistaken. I don't know.
> There have been messages on this board regarding the depressing effect of tranquilizers, so it must be a common side effect. Apparently some people are more sensitive than others in this respect.
> Myco, do you take antidepressants as well?
>
> Nellie.
>
>
> >
> > ----------------
> > >
> > >
> > > Antipsychotics can cause or worsen depression. Panic attacks can also be related to depression.
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Posted by nellie7 on March 29, 2009, at 15:31:38
In reply to Re: Seroquel Panic Help! » nellie7, posted by myco on March 28, 2009, at 12:47:07
Myco, if you are taking APs for the treatment of sleep disturbances (not that I am underestimating the suffering involved) ,it may not be worth it. Have you tried alternatives such as calcium, magnesium or herbs? There are also antidepressants which cause drowsiness that you can try to add- trazodone or certain tricyclics, I think.
Posted by myco on March 29, 2009, at 17:32:33
In reply to Re: Seroquel Panic Help! » myco, posted by nellie7 on March 29, 2009, at 15:31:38
Ya I consider myself an avid user (or did anyway) of "alternatives" to rx augments and sleep aids. I do agree with you totally about AP's for sleep...there is a risk involved i'm sure...even at a tiny dose. They already depress me the next day but i'm told I may respond differently to zyprexa for sleep. I'm trying, always have been actually, to add a TCA at night to both augment nardil and help sleep....I wanted badly to try doxepin or another highly sedative tca (perhaps amitrip)...but this will take an exhaustive debate with my gp...once I get up the strength lol I will step "back into the ring" with the guy. You must also be careful with herbs and sups on maois to some degree...i've learned 1 lesson so far there. I do use a few though on a semiregular basis as i'm almost out of temazepam and getting more will be like pulling teeth. Any suggestions? I have magnesium, niacinimide, scullcap, looking into hops, traz gave me seratonin syndrome on nardil.
> Myco, if you are taking APs for the treatment of sleep disturbances (not that I am underestimating the suffering involved) ,it may not be worth it. Have you tried alternatives such as calcium, magnesium or herbs? There are also antidepressants which cause drowsiness that you can try to add- trazodone or certain tricyclics, I think.
Posted by desolationrower on March 30, 2009, at 0:01:55
In reply to Re: Seroquel Panic Help! » nellie7, posted by myco on March 29, 2009, at 17:32:33
i'd just like to know why anyone would pick an AP as their antihistamine.
-d/r
Posted by myco on March 30, 2009, at 0:11:00
In reply to Re: Seroquel Panic Help!, posted by desolationrower on March 30, 2009, at 0:01:55
Not sure what you mean? AP for sleep not antihistamine use.
> i'd just like to know why anyone would pick an AP as their antihistamine.
>
> -d/r
Posted by nellie7 on March 30, 2009, at 14:29:07
In reply to Re: Seroquel Panic Help! » nellie7, posted by myco on March 29, 2009, at 17:32:33
How about calcium and magnesium, passiflora, valerian...
It's important, of course, to check for interactions with MAOIs, which are, by the way, very stimulating ADs. Have you tried switching to another antidepressant?
Posted by myco on March 30, 2009, at 15:21:42
In reply to Re: Seroquel Panic Help! » myco, posted by nellie7 on March 30, 2009, at 14:29:07
I like magnesium citrate - nice calming effect. Passiflora and valerian ya these are decent sedatives but not knock outs for me. I find scullcap better in that regard or niacinimide.
I have tried a handful of other meds prior to nardil with a very limited success. Effexor came out "ok" in the beginning...but it mostly dulled my emotions....I would still get anxiety but I would have this attitude of ah who cares...you know you get stressed out over a project or exam in univ then effexor would say who gives a sh*t. Raising the dose to 150mg+ introduced me to new heights of anxiety I havent felt in awhile. Quit that one after about a year and a bit....was only on it after awhile to make my dr happy as she was insistant it would work and I had no real alternatives. Then another dr pulled me off it when rediagnosed as SAD\GAD.
Switching to another more commonly/dr "friendly" med is a likely possibility. I have a good 4-8 month wait for a MAOI pdoc ive been talking to. So mabye ditch my gp (only dr I know who will give me nardil)...then get another gp for something like mabye zoloft i dunno yet...wait it out then go back to maois when the pdoc appointments finally come around.
myco
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> How about calcium and magnesium, passiflora, valerian...
> It's important, of course, to check for interactions with MAOIs, which are, by the way, very stimulating ADs. Have you tried switching to another antidepressant?
Posted by desolationrower on March 31, 2009, at 1:53:58
In reply to Re: Seroquel Panic Help! » desolationrower, posted by myco on March 30, 2009, at 0:11:00
> Not sure what you mean? AP for sleep not antihistamine use.
>
> > i'd just like to know why anyone would pick an AP as their antihistamine.
> >
> > -d/r
>
>the drug will do the same thing no matter what your intentions are, +/- some placebo effect. and quetiapine and doxepin are hypnotics mostly because of effect at h1 receptors, no matter what class of drug they get put into. quetiapine also has some alpha1 blocking effect thats important, and there is alpha1 and 5ht2a blocking with trazadone, and anticholinergic with some tcas and dyphenhydramine. but histamine is the main thing.
-d/r
Posted by nellie7 on March 31, 2009, at 13:21:14
In reply to Re: Seroquel Panic Help! » nellie7, posted by myco on March 30, 2009, at 15:21:42
> I like magnesium citrate - nice calming effect. Passiflora and valerian ya these are decent sedatives but not knock outs for me. I find scullcap better in that regard or niacinimide.
>
> I have tried a handful of other meds prior to nardil with a very limited success. Effexor came out "ok" in the beginning...but it mostly dulled my emotions....I would still get anxiety but I would have this attitude of ah who cares...you know you get stressed out over a project or exam in univ then effexor would say who gives a sh*t. Raising the dose to 150mg+ introduced me to new heights of anxiety I havent felt in awhile. Quit that one after about a year and a bit....was only on it after awhile to make my dr happy as she was insistant it would work and I had no real alternatives. Then another dr pulled me off it when rediagnosed as SAD\GAD.
>
> Switching to another more commonly/dr "friendly" med is a likely possibility. I have a good 4-8 month wait for a MAOI pdoc ive been talking to. So mabye ditch my gp (only dr I know who will give me nardil)...then get another gp for something like mabye zoloft i dunno yet...wait it out then go back to maois when the pdoc appointments finally come around.
>
> myco
I hope you find something that works for you.
Nellie.
This is the end of the thread.
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