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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Neal on March 26, 2009, at 22:00:33
Based on the newest achievements in biotech, gene therapy, new drugs, magnetic stimulation and the like, I think depression and manic/depression will be much more treatable in 10 to 15 years, with better outcomes. I'm being conservative - could be sooner. But for those out there who are suffering, especially the younger people, these will be exciting times.
Posted by desolationrower on March 27, 2009, at 3:40:06
In reply to Depression and M/D Improved Treatments, posted by Neal on March 26, 2009, at 22:00:33
its quite possible we'll forget as much as we learn; do you think current outcomes are better than 20 years ago? The most important thing is putting more control of risk choice in hands of patient, and less control of science by pharmaceutical makers with patents.
-d/r
Posted by Phillipa on March 27, 2009, at 12:40:11
In reply to Re: Depression and M/D Improved Treatments, posted by desolationrower on March 27, 2009, at 3:40:06
Maybe they will find that meds arent the answer. Maybe it's some sort of surgery or electrical current or not biological but emotionally caused or hormone caused? Phillipa
Posted by bleauberry on March 27, 2009, at 14:41:35
In reply to Depression and M/D Improved Treatments, posted by Neal on March 26, 2009, at 22:00:33
My guess is it will take a lot longer than 10 to 15 years. Right now they are already working on drugs for approval by that time, since it takes so long to do that. Those drugs are just more variations of what is already being done. Reuptake this, reuptake that, antagonize this, agonize that. Work on genes I think is barely on the radar.
50 years after they were invented, nothing new has been an improvement on the two most powerful ADs. Clomipramine and Parnate. Sure, they have meds more selective, as if that is somehow supposed to be a good thing, and meds with fewer side effects, which is a subjective topic. But, hey, 50 years, and nothing that beats the first ones.
Posted by Neal on March 28, 2009, at 0:15:01
In reply to Re: Depression and M/D Improved Treatments, posted by bleauberry on March 27, 2009, at 14:41:35
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The first med for depression was opium and it's derivatives. That was used from 5000BC to 1918, when it was made illegal; then it was shock until about ?late 40s early 50s; then all the meds that are discussed here.
I'm reading about some truly amazing things that are being done through biotech, and I can't help but think that there won't be some progress for depression. There's too much money to be made.
They have a brain-to-machine interface for quadraplegics that translates an electrical impulse from the brain to bypass a break in the spinal cord and operate a muscle in the extremeties. This is happening now, not in some la la future time.
I would say to anybody: Read up on the latest in biotech*, etc. Sure, depression's a tough nut to crack, the brain's a very complex organ, but they've said that about other things before, that've been done. If I'd have talked about people walking around with pacemakers in 1950, they would have laughed me off the stage.
*for instance, the podcast, "Futures in Biotech" is so fascinating that I have to wonder if it's science fiction or not, but it's legitimate and they're real scientists talking.
http://twit.tv/FIB
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Posted by Garnet71 on March 29, 2009, at 19:00:23
In reply to Depression and M/D Improved Treatments, posted by Neal on March 26, 2009, at 22:00:33
Things are going to get a lot better. They've already built a neurochip to replace part of the injured brain for Parkinson's patients. I hope we don't all forget that technology is exponential; it's rate of acceleration doubles in less and less years. Pharmaceuticals are not going to solve the problems; there's a dramatic shift taking place. Nanotechnology is the technology of the future (but is happening now):
"Looking to the future The total societal impact of nanotechnology is expected to be greater than the combined influences that the silicon integrated circuit, medical imaging, computer-aided engineering,and man-made polymers have had in this century. Significant improvements in performance and changes of manufacturing paradigms will lead to several industrial revolutions in the 21st century. Nanotechnology will change the nature of almost every human-made object. The major questions now are how soon will these revolutions arrive, who will benefit the most, and who will be in position to control or counter their negative aspects? How can we embrace and facilitate the new industrial revolution to maximize the benefit to US citizens? We believe that a national initiative is required to advance this goal because the needs for and from nanotechnology transcend anything that can be supplied by traditional academic disciplines, national laboratories, or even entire industries."
http://www.lanl.gov/mst/nano/definition.html
Posted by Garnet71 on March 29, 2009, at 19:21:45
In reply to Depression and M/D Improved Treatments, posted by Neal on March 26, 2009, at 22:00:33
I agree with you Neal.
About the technological advances..Don't take my word for it..This guy can explain it much better:
http://money.cnn.com/2007/05/01/magazines/fortune/kurzweil.fortune/index.htm
Posted by Neal on March 30, 2009, at 15:50:27
In reply to Re: Depression and M/D Improved Treatments » Neal, posted by Garnet71 on March 29, 2009, at 19:21:45
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It seems that progress is exponential in most of the high-tech fields. That's what I was trying to point out when I talked about the history of psych-meds.
First Generation - 10,000BC to 1918
Second Generation - 1918 to 1950
Third Generation - 1950 to c.1990
Fourth Generation - c.1990 to 2008That's not exponential. But we have to remember that psych-meds weren't considered important by society early on; not like armaments or computers or the airplane for example, that got billions in research.
And depressed people often have low energy, anxiety, or social anxiety, so they can't go out and shake-up the system. If you're old enough, you can remember the gay community really shook-up the political system to give money for research for Aides. And it worked - to a degree. But I wonder if depressed people would band together and do that? There's still some stigma, that most people don't want to be publicly identified as depressed. But that's changing too, I think.
But if they did protest, or their family's protested, there would be more and faster progress. I think a lot of the illegal drug takers are trying to self-medicate, and are depressed to a degree. Now that we have a possibly more scientifically enlightened politcal administration at the top, maybe things will perhaps move faster. But the economy is in the dumpster, so maybe not, hard to tell.
I sometimes wonder if big pharma is dragging along trying to wring-out the last bit of profit from the SSRI's. For instance patenting SSRI's that are slightly different from the ones that are going generic. They need a kick in the you-know-where to get going, but who will do it?
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