![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by g_g_g_unit on March 18, 2009, at 1:13:03
after giving Nardil what i would consider a fair trial (8 weeks @60mg) i've decided to discontinue it. the deal-breaker has been persistently low blood pressure, which has left me feeling weak, dizzy, and barely able to remain awake during the day, while at night i'm wracked with insomnia. my pdoc wants to use seroquel to sleep, but i would rather not delve into polypharmacy - having also made a personal vow that i would draw the line at antipsychotics. as stubborn as that may seem, it's something i'm going to stand by. as such, what would be the best way to come off of nardil? does 10 weeks use require slow, careful weaning? also, are there any supplements/meds i can use to minimize any distress? thanks
Posted by myco on March 18, 2009, at 9:45:41
In reply to plan for weaning off Nardil?, posted by g_g_g_unit on March 18, 2009, at 1:13:03
8 weeks may have been a good run...ideally though you want a few months...sides pretty much all clear up. Small dose of seroquel is along the lines in terms of a strong antihistamine in how it feels (to me)...it's "category" no longer scares me just what it does that is negative, if it does. You say youre positive? make sure "beyond a doubt" cuz it is a potentially great med. ok...so...maois are pretty strong meds and some people find it difficult to get off them, particularly if you are med sensitive but it can be done easily if you do it slow....slow is the way unless you have reason to go fast. take it down from 60 in half pills if you have to...try to withdraw over a month (at least) or two...control speed based on how you feel and monitor bp as you go. Sups to minimize distress..sure...any herb or sup that works on benzo sites will help you to some degree to calm down....scullcap, valerian, hops, niacinamide, magnesium citrate, etc... there are many...just ask the herbalist for sedative or calming ones....but do be careful eh (i speak from experience here) watch what sups or herbs you do use...some may effects that you or no one else realizes exist. rx benzos also will help for sure in chillin the excess anxiety from withdraw out.
Keep us in touch on how you are doing.
-------------------
> after giving Nardil what i would consider a fair trial (8 weeks @60mg) i've decided to discontinue it. the deal-breaker has been persistently low blood pressure, which has left me feeling weak, dizzy, and barely able to remain awake during the day, while at night i'm wracked with insomnia. my pdoc wants to use seroquel to sleep, but i would rather not delve into polypharmacy - having also made a personal vow that i would draw the line at antipsychotics. as stubborn as that may seem, it's something i'm going to stand by. as such, what would be the best way to come off of nardil? does 10 weeks use require slow, careful weaning? also, are there any supplements/meds i can use to minimize any distress?
Posted by g_g_g_unit on March 18, 2009, at 19:28:03
In reply to Re: plan for weaning off Nardil? » g_g_g_unit, posted by myco on March 18, 2009, at 9:45:41
> 8 weeks may have been a good run...ideally though you want a few months...sides pretty much all clear up. Small dose of seroquel is along the lines in terms of a strong antihistamine in how it feels (to me)...it's "category" no longer scares me just what it does that is negative, if it does. You say youre positive? make sure "beyond a doubt" cuz it is a potentially great med. ok...so...maois are pretty strong meds and some people find it difficult to get off them, particularly if you are med sensitive but it can be done easily if you do it slow....slow is the way unless you have reason to go fast. take it down from 60 in half pills if you have to...try to withdraw over a month (at least) or two...control speed based on how you feel and monitor bp as you go. Sups to minimize distress..sure...any herb or sup that works on benzo sites will help you to some degree to calm down....scullcap, valerian, hops, niacinamide, magnesium citrate, etc... there are many...just ask the herbalist for sedative or calming ones....but do be careful eh (i speak from experience here) watch what sups or herbs you do use...some may effects that you or no one else realizes exist. rx benzos also will help for sure in chillin the excess anxiety from withdraw out.
>
> Keep us in touch on how you are doing.
>thanks for your advice. amazingly enough, over the past two nights, my insomnia has begun to clear up. i was at the point where i was up to 30mg of temazepam a night, then just stopped, and had the most relaxing sleep of my life. i'm now sleeping a consistent 6 hours, using only melatonin, which is great. it's not so much that seroquel is an antipsychotic that i don't want to get into the whole game of treating side-effects with more meds, etc. i feel like stacking meds is just getting me further and further away from my goal, which is to be med-free as soon as possible.
unfortunately, my blood pressure is still low. the nardil has also not touched my OCD, and my psychiatrist doubts that it will, aside from treating the peripheral anxiety. i am actually very interested in trying Namenda for OCD, given that it also might clear up my cognitive issues. i'm just trying to decide whether to use it as an augment, or possibly try it as a stand-alone med, as i can deal with my social phobia, GAD, etc. it's the OCD which is the most painful.
Posted by g_g_g_unit on March 20, 2009, at 20:48:39
In reply to Re: plan for weaning off Nardil? » g_g_g_unit, posted by myco on March 18, 2009, at 9:45:41
> 8 weeks may have been a good run...ideally though you want a few months...sides pretty much all clear up. Small dose of seroquel is along the lines in terms of a strong antihistamine in how it feels (to me)...it's "category" no longer scares me just what it does that is negative, if it does. You say youre positive? make sure "beyond a doubt" cuz it is a potentially great med. ok...so...maois are pretty strong meds and some people find it difficult to get off them, particularly if you are med sensitive but it can be done easily if you do it slow....slow is the way unless you have reason to go fast. take it down from 60 in half pills if you have to...try to withdraw over a month (at least) or two...control speed based on how you feel and monitor bp as you go. Sups to minimize distress..sure...any herb or sup that works on benzo sites will help you to some degree to calm down....scullcap, valerian, hops, niacinamide, magnesium citrate, etc... there are many...just ask the herbalist for sedative or calming ones....but do be careful eh (i speak from experience here) watch what sups or herbs you do use...some may effects that you or no one else realizes exist. rx benzos also will help for sure in chillin the excess anxiety from withdraw out.
>i spoke to my GP yesterday and he's drawn up a plan for weaning off Nardil, as well as prescribed me a month's worth of valium. another side-effect i forgot to mention is that as soon as i'm at rest (i.e. reading or watching TV), regardless of the time of day, i find it incredibly hard to stay awake, which is interfering with my CBT, because activities like reading and watching movies fall under my prescribed exposures. unfortunately, this morning i woke up feeling unusually anxious and had a preview of what it might be like to return to a pre-med state, which was scary indeed. i was thinking that maybe once i'm this far in, i should try going up to 75mg for a couple of weeks before i call it quits, since 60mg (now that the initial euphoria has passed) is not doing much. is there any reason to believe 75mg might be more energising than 60? also, how would i add the extra 15? at the moment, i'm taking 30mg at breakfast and 30mg at lunch
Posted by myco on March 21, 2009, at 23:28:00
In reply to HEY MYCO, posted by g_g_g_unit on March 20, 2009, at 20:48:39
>...i find it incredibly hard to stay awake, which is interfering with my CBT...
Do you actually sleep or just get extremely tired and on the verge of sleeping but dont? nardil never allowed me naps only "rests"(no actual sleep). Also you say this is common "when at rest"...sounds like you have a bit of hypotension (low bp) that can cause lots of fatigue. it does pass though..you can talk to your dr about medicating it though I wouldnt recommend it...someone unhealthy perhaps (i.e salt tabs or stimulants). Some people do find a benefit in a small bit of rx stimulant to fight those tired day time feelings...you could ask ya dr about it but dont be too surprised if he says no because it's a bit of a taboo area in a way for some drs.
>...i woke up feeling unusually anxious and had a preview of what it might be like to return to a pre-med state...
Remember a med is like a bandaid...its not gonna give you 100 percent benefit...you will still have bad days but at your therapeutic dose the good will way outnumber the bad (in theory - if on the right med). you mention being on 60mg...this is still a relatively low dose and when I was on 60 i was still having whole weeks of shite...until i hit 75...now i get a bad day here and there...but by far the lot is good.
>...i was thinking that maybe once i'm this far in, i should try going up to 75mg for a couple of weeks before i call it quits, since 60mg (now that the initial euphoria has passed) is not doing much...
Bingo. 60 is still considered "low" in the range of therapeutic dose (the ave therapeutic dose range 60-90). Definately, if you dont mind the med, go up to 75...it all changed for me there...previous doses would start to work then stop...at 60 it was working for awhile then i got a week of crap then i moved up. on 75 almost all of my days are good. worth a shot. remember though: as ive said, and other have said, dont "chase" that euphoric feeling because it is not the way the med works in the long run...if you get attached to it you will be dissapointed later because it leaves totally....the med works subtly in the background...no physical indication that it is working at all once youve been on for many months...you must watch your behaviours to see that it is working.
>...75mg might be more energising than 60? also, how would i add the extra 15? at the moment, i'm taking 30mg at breakfast and 30mg at lunch...
it will be more energizing at first but that amphetamine-like stimalation doesnt last either...it will leave also...dont chase it. nardil works subtly in the long run. in the beginning you should stick to a schedule for dosing: i do 830am-30mg; 230pm-30mg; 830pm-15mg. once youve been on for months this wont matter...you could take it all in the morning if you wanted.
to start....either add that 15 at night (if it doesnt mess with your sleep) or the morning...this will play a role when you are just gettin used to nardil but like i said wont matter for long.
-------------------------------> i spoke to my GP yesterday and he's drawn up a plan for weaning off Nardil, as well as prescribed me a month's worth of valium. another side-effect i forgot to mention is that as soon as i'm at rest (i.e. reading or watching TV), regardless of the time of day, i find it incredibly hard to stay awake, which is interfering with my CBT, because activities like reading and watching movies fall under my prescribed exposures. unfortunately, this morning i woke up feeling unusually anxious and had a preview of what it might be like to return to a pre-med state, which was scary indeed. i was thinking that maybe once i'm this far in, i should try going up to 75mg for a couple of weeks before i call it quits, since 60mg (now that the initial euphoria has passed) is not doing much. is there any reason to believe 75mg might be more energising than 60? also, how would i add the extra 15? at the moment, i'm taking 30mg at breakfast and 30mg at lunch
>
>
Posted by myco on March 21, 2009, at 23:32:26
In reply to Re: HEY MYCO, posted by myco on March 21, 2009, at 23:28:00
Also if I can recommend:
take the dose on an empty stomach (if you can - some people get nausea) and take it with alot of water...i read that phenelzine like alkaline conditions better than acidic so lower the acidity for nardil in your stomach by keeping it empty and adding lots of water. works for me. always feel it better on empty stomach than with food.
> >...i find it incredibly hard to stay awake, which is interfering with my CBT...
>
> Do you actually sleep or just get extremely tired and on the verge of sleeping but dont? nardil never allowed me naps only "rests"(no actual sleep). Also you say this is common "when at rest"...sounds like you have a bit of hypotension (low bp) that can cause lots of fatigue. it does pass though..you can talk to your dr about medicating it though I wouldnt recommend it...someone unhealthy perhaps (i.e salt tabs or stimulants). Some people do find a benefit in a small bit of rx stimulant to fight those tired day time feelings...you could ask ya dr about it but dont be too surprised if he says no because it's a bit of a taboo area in a way for some drs.
>
> >...i woke up feeling unusually anxious and had a preview of what it might be like to return to a pre-med state...
>
> Remember a med is like a bandaid...its not gonna give you 100 percent benefit...you will still have bad days but at your therapeutic dose the good will way outnumber the bad (in theory - if on the right med). you mention being on 60mg...this is still a relatively low dose and when I was on 60 i was still having whole weeks of shite...until i hit 75...now i get a bad day here and there...but by far the lot is good.
>
> >...i was thinking that maybe once i'm this far in, i should try going up to 75mg for a couple of weeks before i call it quits, since 60mg (now that the initial euphoria has passed) is not doing much...
>
> Bingo. 60 is still considered "low" in the range of therapeutic dose (the ave therapeutic dose range 60-90). Definately, if you dont mind the med, go up to 75...it all changed for me there...previous doses would start to work then stop...at 60 it was working for awhile then i got a week of crap then i moved up. on 75 almost all of my days are good. worth a shot. remember though: as ive said, and other have said, dont "chase" that euphoric feeling because it is not the way the med works in the long run...if you get attached to it you will be dissapointed later because it leaves totally....the med works subtly in the background...no physical indication that it is working at all once youve been on for many months...you must watch your behaviours to see that it is working.
>
> >...75mg might be more energising than 60? also, how would i add the extra 15? at the moment, i'm taking 30mg at breakfast and 30mg at lunch...
>
> it will be more energizing at first but that amphetamine-like stimalation doesnt last either...it will leave also...dont chase it. nardil works subtly in the long run. in the beginning you should stick to a schedule for dosing: i do 830am-30mg; 230pm-30mg; 830pm-15mg. once youve been on for months this wont matter...you could take it all in the morning if you wanted.
> to start....either add that 15 at night (if it doesnt mess with your sleep) or the morning...this will play a role when you are just gettin used to nardil but like i said wont matter for long.
>
>
> -------------------------------
>
> > i spoke to my GP yesterday and he's drawn up a plan for weaning off Nardil, as well as prescribed me a month's worth of valium. another side-effect i forgot to mention is that as soon as i'm at rest (i.e. reading or watching TV), regardless of the time of day, i find it incredibly hard to stay awake, which is interfering with my CBT, because activities like reading and watching movies fall under my prescribed exposures. unfortunately, this morning i woke up feeling unusually anxious and had a preview of what it might be like to return to a pre-med state, which was scary indeed. i was thinking that maybe once i'm this far in, i should try going up to 75mg for a couple of weeks before i call it quits, since 60mg (now that the initial euphoria has passed) is not doing much. is there any reason to believe 75mg might be more energising than 60? also, how would i add the extra 15? at the moment, i'm taking 30mg at breakfast and 30mg at lunch
> >
> >
>
>
Posted by g_g_g_unit on March 22, 2009, at 4:05:50
In reply to Re: HEY MYCO, posted by myco on March 21, 2009, at 23:28:00
> >...i find it incredibly hard to stay awake, which is interfering with my CBT...
>
> Do you actually sleep or just get extremely tired and on the verge of sleeping but dont? nardil never allowed me naps only "rests"(no actual sleep). Also you say this is common "when at rest"...sounds like you have a bit of hypotension (low bp) that can cause lots of fatigue. it does pass though..you can talk to your dr about medicating it though I wouldnt recommend it...someone unhealthy perhaps (i.e salt tabs or stimulants). Some people do find a benefit in a small bit of rx stimulant to fight those tired day time feelings...you could ask ya dr about it but dont be too surprised if he says no because it's a bit of a taboo area in a way for some drs.
>personally i'd prefer not to use stimulants, though even caffeine isn't helping much atm. i get the latter - a feeling of overwhelming fatigue without actually being able to fall asleep. still, it doesn't really allow me to engage in CBT, which to me is more important than meds
> >...i woke up feeling unusually anxious and had a preview of what it might be like to return to a pre-med state...
>
> Remember a med is like a bandaid...its not gonna give you 100 percent benefit...you will still have bad days but at your therapeutic dose the good will way outnumber the bad (in theory - if on the right med). you mention being on 60mg...this is still a relatively low dose and when I was on 60 i was still having whole weeks of shite...until i hit 75...now i get a bad day here and there...but by far the lot is good.
>
> >...i was thinking that maybe once i'm this far in, i should try going up to 75mg for a couple of weeks before i call it quits, since 60mg (now that the initial euphoria has passed) is not doing much...
>
> Bingo. 60 is still considered "low" in the >range of therapeutic dose (the ave therapeutic >dose range 60-90). Definately, if you dont mind >the med, go up to 75...it all changed for me >there...previous doses would start to work then >stop...at 60 it was working for awhile then i >got a week of crap then i moved up. on 75 almost >all of my days are good. worth a shot. remember >though: as ive said, and other have said, dont >"chase" that euphoric feeling because it is not >the way the med works in the long run...if you >get attached to it you will be dissapointed >later because it leaves totally....the med works >subtly in the background...no physical indication >that it is working at all once youve been on for >many months...you must watch your behaviours to >see that it is working.having read about the initial euphoria i thought i would be prepared for it. unfortunately, i failed to recognise i was in the midst of it at the time, and now that it's gone i do miss it. i'm not chasing it however; what i want is relief from my anxiety and 60mg feels like too low a dose to achieve that. i can recognise that the euphoria was just a mask that temporarily allowed me to forget my problems. it wasn't in any way a practical state to be in full-time; i'd choose a more stable state of anxiety relief over it any day
>
> >...75mg might be more energising than 60? also, how would i add the extra 15? at the moment, i'm taking 30mg at breakfast and 30mg at lunch...
>
> it will be more energizing at first but that amphetamine-like stimalation doesnt last either...it will leave also...dont chase it. nardil works subtly in the long run. in the beginning you should stick to a schedule for dosing: i do 830am-30mg; 230pm-30mg; 830pm-15mg. once youve been on for months this wont matter...you could take it all in the morning if you wanted.
> to start....either add that 15 at night (if it doesnt mess with your sleep) or the morning...this will play a role when you are just gettin used to nardil but like i said wont matter for long.
>
>
> -------------------------------
>
> > i spoke to my GP yesterday and he's drawn up a plan for weaning off Nardil, as well as prescribed me a month's worth of valium. another side-effect i forgot to mention is that as soon as i'm at rest (i.e. reading or watching TV), regardless of the time of day, i find it incredibly hard to stay awake, which is interfering with my CBT, because activities like reading and watching movies fall under my prescribed exposures. unfortunately, this morning i woke up feeling unusually anxious and had a preview of what it might be like to return to a pre-med state, which was scary indeed. i was thinking that maybe once i'm this far in, i should try going up to 75mg for a couple of weeks before i call it quits, since 60mg (now that the initial euphoria has passed) is not doing much. is there any reason to believe 75mg might be more energising than 60? also, how would i add the extra 15? at the moment, i'm taking 30mg at breakfast and 30mg at lunch
> >
> >
>
>
Posted by g_g_g_unit on March 22, 2009, at 6:08:18
In reply to Re: HEY MYCO » myco, posted by myco on March 21, 2009, at 23:32:26
> Also if I can recommend:
>
> take the dose on an empty stomach (if you can - some people get nausea) and take it with alot of water...i read that phenelzine like alkaline conditions better than acidic so lower the acidity for nardil in your stomach by keeping it empty and adding lots of water. works for me. always feel it better on empty stomach than with food.
>
>
>cool i will try that. only issue is - i'm also taking Acetyl-l-carnitine which i took each morning on an empty stomach. do you think it's okay to take the two together, or even space them out 15 minutes or so?
and one last question. re exercise: i'm finding swimming nearly impossible at the moment. my limbs are like concrete and i'm literally exhausted after 3-4 laps, which is about 1/5 of what i was capable of swimming pre-Nardil. weight training seems to be less of a problem, since i guess i'm working isolated muscles, though i have had to drop the amount of weight i'm lifting. is weakness related to low blood pressure?
thanks so much for all your help!
Posted by myco on March 22, 2009, at 12:03:37
In reply to Re: HEY MYCO, posted by g_g_g_unit on March 22, 2009, at 4:05:50
> personally i'd prefer not to use stimulants, though even caffeine isn't helping much atm. i get the latter - a feeling of overwhelming fatigue without actually being able to fall asleep. still, it doesn't really allow me to engage in CBT, which to me is more important than meds
stims are a tough call but weight out the pos vs negs here. in a tiny dose and well monitored by your pdoc they are safe and may just give you that added boost in the day. coffee will wear off...i swear (havent read in literature to confirm though) that nardil effects caffeine. i dont get jittery or more awake from coffee. it relaxes me actually on nardil - complete opposite of when not taking nardil. talk to dr about supplemental stims like tyrosine or mucuna pruriens (velvet bean) or something. do get a dr's ok with these though...i can speak from experience that supps and herbs can be a bit of a challenge when on maois...a very unpleasant challenge if you dont be careful. so if you need to be awake for cbt....then you must do what you need to do to stay awake (dont bail on nardil just for this yet)....talk to dr and find a away...augment etc...something will work for you, may take some time finding it but its out there.
> having read about the initial euphoria i thought i would be prepared for it. unfortunately, i failed to recognise i was in the midst of it at the time, and now that it's gone i do miss it. i'm not chasing it however; what i want is relief from my anxiety and 60mg feels like too low a dose to achieve that. i can recognise that the euphoria was just a mask that temporarily allowed me to forget my problems. it wasn't in any way a practical state to be in full-time; i'd choose a more stable state of anxiety relief over it any day
studies will show you that "anxiety" patients in general need more nardil than depressed patients to be effective. have no fear or hesitation at going to 75....it's really not that much different than 60, although the sides are a bit more in your face but you know the sides already so you are prepared...nothing will surprise you in terms of sides really. dont even let the sides scare you from goin up in dose, they pass in a few weeks and nardil shines through. luv this med.
one thing that does make me concerned is youre using a gp....not to put you off gps but ive more horror stories of ignorance about gps than good ones. these people are generalists...the mere mention of augmenting nardil may send them into a tizzy. your better off getting on a wait list for a pdoc and seeing this gp in the interim while you wait. unless he/she is super cool ditch them because your treatment (in terms of options etc) may suffer alot. the mere word "benzo" makes my gp turn his nose up and change the convo immediately.
Posted by myco on March 22, 2009, at 12:10:59
In reply to Re: HEY MYCO, posted by g_g_g_unit on March 22, 2009, at 6:08:18
> cool i will try that. only issue is - i'm also taking Acetyl-l-carnitine which i took each morning on an empty stomach. do you think it's okay to take the two together, or even space them out 15 minutes or so?
I'm affraid i cant speak for that sup but do be careful with sups...you can get synergistic effects in the least....make intensify your tiredness with nardil...not sure. id have to look it up....always best to run it by a dr or a naturopath first. studies on harbs/sups mixed with maois are tough to come by...take it away a few days and see how you feel then add it back and compare...play this back and forth and see if there is anything undesireable about it.
> and one last question. re exercise: i'm finding swimming nearly impossible at the moment. my limbs are like concrete and i'm literally exhausted after 3-4 laps, which is about 1/5 of what i was capable of swimming pre-Nardil. weight training seems to be less of a problem, since i guess i'm working isolated muscles, though i have had to drop the amount of weight i'm lifting. is weakness related to low blood pressure?
ya the weakness is nardil induced man...low bp is part of it for sure. its best if you wait this out until it passes - it does. if not...again consider what i mentioned in the other post about tiny bits of stims or stim/sups....dont want to push these on you but you need to weigh pros and cons....especially with your cbt...which is a crucial partner with nardil. get nardil just right (with augments or whatever) and cbt will shine and you will improve way faster. pros - vs - cons.
Posted by g_g_g_unit on March 22, 2009, at 15:27:27
In reply to Re: HEY MYCO » g_g_g_unit, posted by myco on March 22, 2009, at 12:03:37
>
> stims are a tough call but weight out the pos vs negs here. in a tiny dose and well monitored by your pdoc they are safe and may just give you that added boost in the day. coffee will wear off...i swear (havent read in literature to confirm though) that nardil effects caffeine. i dont get jittery or more awake from coffee. it relaxes me actually on nardil - complete opposite of when not taking nardil. talk to dr about supplemental stims like tyrosine or mucuna pruriens (velvet bean) or something. do get a dr's ok with these though...i can speak from experience that supps and herbs can be a bit of a challenge when on maois...a very unpleasant challenge if you dont be careful. so if you need to be awake for cbt....then you must do what you need to do to stay awake (dont bail on nardil just for this yet)....talk to dr and find a away...augment etc...something will work for you, may take some time finding it but its out there.things like adderall and ritalin - which i thought you were referring to - are nearly impossible to get off-label where i live, even from a specialist. i may look into tyrosine though.
>
> studies will show you that "anxiety" patients in general need more nardil than depressed patients to be effective. have no fear or hesitation at going to 75....it's really not that much different than 60, although the sides are a bit more in your face but you know the sides already so you are prepared...nothing will surprise you in terms of sides really. dont even let the sides scare you from goin up in dose, they pass in a few weeks and nardil shines through. luv this med.
>
> one thing that does make me concerned is youre using a gp....not to put you off gps but ive more horror stories of ignorance about gps than good ones. these people are generalists...the mere mention of augmenting nardil may send them into a tizzy. your better off getting on a wait list for a pdoc and seeing this gp in the interim while you wait. unless he/she is super cool ditch them because your treatment (in terms of options etc) may suffer alot. the mere word "benzo" makes my gp turn his nose up and change the convo immediately.sorry, i should have made this more clear. i have both a psych and a gp. my psych is concerned solely with prescribing meds (i.e. There Is a Med Out There For You), where as my gp is looking for a more holistic approach which may involve coming off meds entirely, and it's him who i was going to use to supervise my tapering, were i to come off Nardil. he's also referred me to another doctor who's an acolyte of the Pfeiffer Center, and has recently performed blood tests to confirm my histamine type, which i'm waiting on.
i moved up to 75mg today. am dreading the insomnia though at least i know it goes away. believe me, i am not in a rush to get off Nardil - it by far out-classes any of the SSRI's i've tried up til now, and it would break my heart if it didn't work out. but like you say, i'm trying to rationally weigh up the pro's and con's
Posted by desolationrower on March 22, 2009, at 16:02:15
In reply to Re: HEY MYCO, posted by g_g_g_unit on March 22, 2009, at 15:27:27
I use ALCAR with parnate. its one of the few sups i've ever noticed an effect from (when i don't sleep it makes me feel more normal). and it tastes fine as a bulk powder (with some lemon juice)
-d/r
Posted by myco on March 26, 2009, at 22:03:10
In reply to Re: HEY MYCO, posted by g_g_g_unit on March 22, 2009, at 15:27:27
>"... he's also referred me to another doctor who's an acolyte of the Pfeiffer Center, and has recently performed blood tests to confirm my histamine type, which i'm waiting on."
hmmm...can you explain this a bit more...you have me interested here. I know histamine receptors are different but....does this relate to depression and anxiety more than I think? I know many old meds like TCA's are based on antihistamine structure lending to their efficacy in depression...but testing for histamine type, I had no idea. I'm assuming you can then direct a specific med according to this type?
>" i moved up to 75mg today. am dreading the insomnia though at least i know it goes away. believe me, i am not in a rush to get off Nardil - it by far out-classes any of the SSRI's i've tried up til now, and it would break my heart if it didn't work out. but like you say, i'm trying to rationally weigh up the pro's and con's "
remember to not fear the insomnia. To me it doesnt feel like insomnia in the beginning. That amphetamine drive or whatever it is exactly that keeps me wanting to go and go (in the beginning) really prevents you from feeling what tired should make you feel like. That takes many weeks. I lived as an insomniac with no sleep med apart from sups and herbals for almost 3 months...by month 2 my body starting to "tap me on the shoulder", so to speak, saying hey I'm screwed here get some sleep. But before that....go go go go...2h sleep who cares...nardil says wham lets go again with the morning dose lol
This is the end of the thread.
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