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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 13 to 37 of 37. Go back in thread:
Posted by iforgotmypassword on January 18, 2009, at 13:13:22
In reply to Re: any sign of it being released in canada, posted by SLS on January 18, 2009, at 3:49:20
it's depressing gepirone never came out. we could have got some hard in vivo human dopamine receptor occupancy data. maybe even some alpha-2 focused comparison with other drugs.
money, the alpha-2 blocking metaboite, and especially the D2 issue of buspirone were why i did not go higher with the dose, despite that theoretically it may have been able to help me.
maybe i will go back to it. i still think about it sometimes, but i really don't like messing with hard dopamine antagonists.
i am hoping that nefazodone helps mitigate excessive serotonergic input somewhere it needs to be addressed, or what i am truly hoping that it addresses it entirely, but it seems less likely to do anything at all about excess serotonergic input in the VTA, and may even likely increase serotonin there.
i feel strongly that my cluster of extrapyramidal symptoms is likely to be caused by harmful antidopaminergic effects of excess serotonergic input. but some days i really worry that it is a slowly progressing permanent neurodegenerative disease like parkinson's.
Posted by theo on January 18, 2009, at 20:45:10
In reply to Abilify saved me, posted by noelle on January 17, 2009, at 22:31:40
What dose do you take? Do you take it morning or bedtime?
Posted by theo on January 18, 2009, at 20:50:41
In reply to Re: Abilify saved me, posted by SLS on January 17, 2009, at 22:40:39
How long now have you been on Abilify? Any signs of Tardive Dyskinesia? Abilify worked great for me but I freaked about that. If it helps dopamine isn't it differenent than other AP's that shut dopamine down?
Posted by SLS on January 18, 2009, at 21:32:02
In reply to Re: Abilify saved me » SLS, posted by theo on January 18, 2009, at 20:50:41
> How long now have you been on Abilify? Any signs of Tardive Dyskinesia? Abilify worked great for me but I freaked about that.
Tardive Dyskinisia is thought to be less likely with Abilify, primarily because it doesn't accumulate in the motor centers of the brain located in the striatum. It is selective for the mood control centers in the mesolimbic cortex. So, basically, the areas responsible for movement control are not affected.
I don't know if any work has been done in this area, but some people have expressed concern that Tardive Akathisia is a possibility.
> If it helps dopamine isn't it differenent than other AP's that shut dopamine down?
Yes. It increases dopamine activity when there isn't enough and decreases it when there is too much.
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on January 19, 2009, at 0:34:25
In reply to Re: Abilify saved me » theo, posted by SLS on January 18, 2009, at 21:32:02
How does that work? Love Phillipa
Posted by Neal on January 19, 2009, at 21:40:15
In reply to Re: Abilify saved me » theo, posted by SLS on January 18, 2009, at 21:32:02
Scott,
if you don't mind. are you straight depression, or bi-polar, or ________?
Posted by noelle on January 19, 2009, at 23:48:36
In reply to Re: Abilify saved me » noelle, posted by theo on January 18, 2009, at 20:45:10
I take 5mg at night
Posted by SLS on January 20, 2009, at 7:29:07
In reply to Re: Abilify saved me » SLS, posted by Neal on January 19, 2009, at 21:40:15
> Scott,
>
> if you don't mind. are you straight depression, or bi-polar, or ________?Definitely ________.
:-)
Bipolar:Chronic severe anergic depression with antidepressant-induced mania. I never experienced a spontaneous remission in 32 years. Not fun.
- Scott
Posted by Neal on January 20, 2009, at 16:25:54
In reply to Re: Abilify saved me » Neal, posted by SLS on January 20, 2009, at 7:29:07
>
> :-)
>
>
> Bipolar:
>
> Chronic severe anergic depression with antidepressant-induced mania. I never experienced a spontaneous remission in 32 years. Not fun.Thanks Scott,
sorry to be so nosy i saved your med list in your previous post, but its useless - unless i know what it was treating.
-Neal
Posted by JayBTV2 on January 21, 2009, at 7:32:53
In reply to Re: Abilify saved me » SLS, posted by Neal on January 20, 2009, at 16:25:54
I just came out of the hospital again after two manic episodes. Was in for 3 days in late December - then again for 8 days Jan 10th through 18th.
I had been episode free since 2006. At that point I was put on Lamictal (125mg) and Seroquel (100mg night). Those both seemed to work well until the last few months.
I have a problem with boredom I suppose. I'm on SSI and due to my illness I haven't done much but live w/ my parents (I'm 31 w/ a degree in Psych from McGill University).
Anyway the last few months I kinda slipped back into some drug seeking behavior. Started drinking beer daily at bars to talk to bartenders (at least something social). Then I got back into drinking Cough Syrup (DXM) which is really not too smart. Was actually doing it twice a week prior to bipolar support groups believe it or not (NAMI and MHI).....ugh
So yea I know I need to take responsibility for my mistakes and thus the hardcore episodes I just went through. Burned the back of my hands with cigs. Thought at times I was talking to a god/devil in the sun. Wondered how the brain syncs info as a baby when the speed of light is SO much faster than the speed of sound. Thought about time, magicians, and potential cheaters in the game of life. The ultimate chess player Vs a computer that was built by humans. You are what you eat - but no one eats humans.....on and on and on and on....
Sorry there was a point to this :)
Yea so in this recent visit to the hospital they finally put me on Abilify (15mg morning). It's only been about a week but it's really helped the way I feel. It's my first new medication since 2006 - and I'm really optimistic about it. I was weary of akathesia (which I had bad w/ Wellbutrin of all meds) but so far I haven't had any side-effects aside from some sleep disturbance.
It's also nice that for me it's definitely been pro-libido.
Just wanted to say thanks for those that have posted positive reports in this thread. I'm really hoping this turns out to be the boost I need to get on the right track again. It's only been a week but I've been able to stop all of my vices.....
Thanks for letting me share,
-Jason
Posted by Phillipa on January 21, 2009, at 19:44:38
In reply to Re: Abilify saved me, posted by JayBTV2 on January 21, 2009, at 7:32:53
So glad you're feeling better and med is working for you. Love Phillipa
Posted by linkadge on January 22, 2009, at 19:27:06
In reply to Re: Abilify saved me » theo, posted by SLS on January 18, 2009, at 21:32:02
Tardive Dyskinisia is thought to be less likely with Abilify because it is the latest antipsychotic on the market.
Linkadge
Posted by SLS on January 22, 2009, at 20:06:21
In reply to Re: Correction » SLS, posted by linkadge on January 22, 2009, at 19:27:06
> Tardive Dyskinisia is thought to be less likely with Abilify because it is the latest antipsychotic on the market.
Crap. And here I thought it was due to its inability to produce an upregulation of D2 receptors or an increase in expression of the c-fos mRNA in the striatum.Silly me.
- Scott
Posted by porkpiehat on January 22, 2009, at 21:11:22
In reply to Re: Correction of a correction » linkadge, posted by SLS on January 22, 2009, at 20:06:21
I laughed when I saw the new ad on TV pushing people to casually add Abilify to their AD mix and thought "how irresponsible I would never do that."
I added risperdal to my serzone years ago and flipped the "eff" out!
Well my doctor suggested it today because the Buspar I have been augmenting my celexa with (for anxiety and concentration) is making me consistently dark, brooding, and cynical, bordering on suicidal at times.
I only want to take it if it will help with anxiety and concentration without blunting me and my sex drive. Otherwise I would just ramp up to full dose Celexa again.
What are the opinions about a very low dose of abilify to augment a 20 mg dose of Celexa? Is it harmless or will I get fat, blunted, diabetes, and die of a stroke?
I am also taking 100 mgs Lamicatal bid and (for now) 25mgs of buspar (split into two doses)
Thanks for any input!
Posted by SLS on January 23, 2009, at 6:31:26
In reply to Re: Abilify as a casual adjunct??, posted by porkpiehat on January 22, 2009, at 21:11:22
> I laughed when I saw the new ad on TV pushing people to casually add Abilify to their AD mix and thought "how irresponsible I would never do that."
My reaction was similar to yours. The use of any antipsychotic requires a careful risk versus benefit evaluation.
> I added risperdal to my serzone years ago and flipped the "eff" out!
How so?
> Well my doctor suggested it today because the Buspar I have been augmenting my celexa with (for anxiety and concentration) is making me consistently dark, brooding, and cynical, bordering on suicidal at times.Well, I find Abilify to be a good anti-suicide drug, although it is probably not as good as Zyprexa or Clozaril. However, it might do a better job as an adjunct to standard antidepressants. Its activity at dopamine receptors varies according to synaptic dopamine concentrations. I feel that it is a dopamine system stabilizer (DSS) as it has come to be known as. The main thing you need to look out for is true akathisia. This is uncommon. However, it is common that someone experience anxiety, mild restlessness, and insomnia. These are akathisia-like, but tend to disappear in 1-2 weeks. For me, it is a clean drug. My head is clear. I suffer no fogginess or cognitive blunting. I don't see that it has affected my sex drive.
What is my opinion of the use of a low dosage of Abilify? I really haven't decided. I know that 20mg works well for me and that 5-10mg does not.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on January 23, 2009, at 7:03:44
In reply to Re: Abilify saved me » theo, posted by SLS on January 18, 2009, at 21:32:02
Hi Theo
> > How long now have you been on Abilify? Any signs of Tardive Dyskinesia? Abilify worked great for me but I freaked about that.
The following passage is misinformation:
> Tardive Dyskinisia is thought to be less likely with Abilify, primarily because it doesn't accumulate in the motor centers of the brain located in the striatum. It is selective for the mood control centers in the mesolimbic cortex. So, basically, the areas responsible for movement control are not affected.It represents the early conclusions as to why Abilify does not increase the binding Bmax of D2 receptors in the striatum. However, this hypothesis has been discarded in favor of D2 partial agonism. The net implications are the same. Striatal D2 postsynaptic receptors are not upregulated. D2 upregulation is thought by many to be contributary to the development of tardive dyskinesia. The risks of Abilify to produce tardive dyskinesia are low, and probably lower than any of the currently marketed antipsychotics.
Sorry for the confusion.
I was dissatisfied with the age of my last read on the subject, so I decided to investigate further.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on January 23, 2009, at 7:05:37
In reply to Re: Abilify saved me » SLS, posted by SLS on January 23, 2009, at 7:03:44
Posted by theo on January 23, 2009, at 21:23:25
In reply to Re: Abilify saved me » SLS, posted by SLS on January 23, 2009, at 7:03:44
Thanks!
Posted by porkpiehat on January 25, 2009, at 13:59:21
In reply to Re: Abilify saved me » SLS, posted by theo on January 23, 2009, at 21:23:25
I've done some research and akathesia seems to be very common. I think it would be easiest for me to just increase my Celexa by 5 or 10 mgs rather than blithely throw in an AP.
I wouldn't say I'm treatment resistant, I just hate the side effects of the SSRI. I'm guessing they're better than that of Abilify.
Now I'm wondering if I should bother continuing with the Buspar at all.
Thanks for everyone's input,
Craig
Posted by desolationrower on January 25, 2009, at 21:25:19
In reply to Re: Abilify saved me, posted by porkpiehat on January 25, 2009, at 13:59:21
how much buspar do you take/ most people take too little. it also seems to have a narrow window where it is effective.
-d/r
Posted by porkpiehat on January 25, 2009, at 21:41:47
In reply to Re: Abilify saved me, posted by desolationrower on January 25, 2009, at 21:25:19
> how much buspar do you take/ most people take too little. it also seems to have a narrow window where it is effective.
>
> -d/rThe Buspar is effective at the dose I take, but it has the side effect of making me very irritable and dark. Even if it was uncovering dark anger that was already there, ultimately I was feeling worse.
I'm going to continue taking the buspar to offset some of the celexa SE's, but I've already increased my Celexa dose and I feel better
Posted by SLS on January 26, 2009, at 7:16:09
In reply to Re: Abilify saved me, posted by porkpiehat on January 25, 2009, at 21:41:47
> The Buspar is effective at the dose I take, but it has the side effect of making me very irritable and dark.
Abilify, like Buspar is a 5-HT1a partial agonist. It is possible that this is what is helping manage your anxiety. The metabolite of Buspar is 1PP, which is Remeron-like. If you reacted badly to Remeron, that might explain things.
- Scott
Posted by desolationrower on January 26, 2009, at 11:09:45
In reply to Re: Abilify saved me » porkpiehat, posted by SLS on January 26, 2009, at 7:16:09
d2 antagonists help with irritability, so i'd guess its the enhanced dopaminergic activity causing this
-d/r
Posted by porkpiehat on January 26, 2009, at 11:47:35
In reply to Re: Abilify saved me, posted by desolationrower on January 26, 2009, at 11:09:45
> d2 antagonists help with irritability, so i'd guess its the enhanced dopaminergic activity causing this
>
> -d/rWhat are some examples of a D2 antagonist?
Posted by desolationrower on January 26, 2009, at 13:43:12
In reply to Re: Abilify saved me, posted by porkpiehat on January 26, 2009, at 11:47:35
its the defining characteristic of neuroleptics.
-d/r
This is the end of the thread.
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