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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Jakeo29 on December 8, 2008, at 10:00:53
Well everyone, I am giving it a "go" again in spring to finish my BA in Psychology-Neuroscience. This illness has caused tremendous adversity at the same time lots of knowledge. I dropped out 3 years ago with only two classes to go. Many years of college ups and downs, hospitalizations due to depression and autistic-like outbursts and medication adjustments caused this set back. I really enjoy this board because everyone here has so much knowledge and insight as if I am talking to my classmates here. However we have one thing in common, our illnesses. And I am starting to see as much as the illness slams you down, it sometimes is a "gift" Especially going into the field of Psychology we have a level of insight and knowledge of our mental health, during the good times and bad, that neurotypical people cannot even fathom. People often say since we are mentally ill, we do not know ourselves. This is proving untrue. Sure we have problems "fixing" ourselves, but we probably know more about ourselves and biological neurofunctioning that probably 98 % of the Neurotypicals out there don't know. We see and perceive things in a different way and I believe that can be seen as a "gift" Thinking that helps me feel better during the roughest times-knowing that medications are needed in order to restore proper neurochemical functioning, because if the brain is "mis firing" it's juices-How can psychotherapy be effective on it's own-especially if the problem is of neuromedical nature. Just because I am getting a degree in neuroscience does not mean I know more than anyone else on this board. It's all about learning, I am learning a lot here as if I am chatting with a bunch of neuroscientists (and I am sure some of you guys are perusing similar fields of interest. My grades are rather marginal for grad school(take a wild guess as to why), However I know in Psychology, you cannot research yourself, however with a deeper working understanding of my disorders, I can make and possible test hypothesis's relating to my condition abroad. I would like to do research about the dopamine theory and how much more intensive research needs to be done. I am almost convinced that the state of Dopamine function is one of (but not limited to in any way) the chief causes of many of our neuropsychiatric disorders. I believe pharmaceutical companies focus too much with serotonin and not enough with the Dopamine and Norepinephrine side. And remember for those who studied this already, Dopamine converts to Norepinephrine in the synapse-Thus one would argue if someone is taking an SNRI and Doing much better than just a SSRI, there may be correlation that the disorder also has to do with poor dopamine regulation. Consequently, the SNRI's may not be as effective as they "could" be. SSNDRI? (Selective Serotonin-Norepinephrine-Dopamine (D2) Reputake Inhibitor anyone :) Or if EMSAM could be reversible, that may be a huge hit for treating depression. Remember, I do not want to offend anyone with their own thinking's, I am glad to come to a place to babble a hypothesis where others are interested even more than classmates in school! Thanks, Jake.
Posted by Phillipa on December 8, 2008, at 12:56:23
In reply to To finish Neuroscience degree in psychology, posted by Jakeo29 on December 8, 2008, at 10:00:53
Didn't know norepenephrine converts to dopamine seems you're already teaching. I'm so glad you're able to continue your studies and wish you great success. Got to walk in the shoes till you truly understand. My saying. Love Phillipa
Posted by clipper40 on December 8, 2008, at 14:22:56
In reply to To finish Neuroscience degree in psychology, posted by Jakeo29 on December 8, 2008, at 10:00:53
I suppose our illness does have a silver lining.
Good luck to you and keep us posted!
Posted by B2chica on December 9, 2008, at 8:10:36
In reply to To finish Neuroscience degree in psychology, posted by Jakeo29 on December 8, 2008, at 10:00:53
>>I am almost convinced that the state of Dopamine function is one of (but not limited to in any way) the chief causes of many of our neuropsychiatric disorders. I believe pharmaceutical companies focus too much with serotonin and not enough with the Dopamine and Norepinephrine side.
THANK YOU!
i've been saying this for a few years about mine. zyprexa is the only thing that works really well with me over the years, my thinking D1.(or the combination of D receptors it effects)
and it just seems logical that dopamine is my issue since i was also Great during my pregnancy and while nursing as soon as i stopped nursing and my prolactin levels changed, the depression hit HARD and FAST.
i'm just not sure how i'm being effected.There's Your Thesis.
btw, my Dx is bipolar and/or psychotic depression.Good Luck!
b2c.
Posted by SLS on December 9, 2008, at 8:30:31
In reply to Re: To finish Neuroscience degree in psychology » Jakeo29, posted by B2chica on December 9, 2008, at 8:10:36
Hi.
> btw, my Dx is bipolar and/or psychotic depression.
How have you been feeling lately? Do you feel that your illness is being treated adequately? I know someone with the same diagnosis whom does well on a combination of:
Wellbutrin 300mg
Seroquel 800mg
Abilify 30mg
Neurontin 1200mgI question the necessity of using Neurontin, but I would not want to rock the boat.
Do you think oxytocin may have helped with your depression? I haven't researched the matter.
- Scott
Posted by B2chica on December 9, 2008, at 11:41:05
In reply to Re: To finish Neuroscience degree in psychology » B2chica, posted by SLS on December 9, 2008, at 8:30:31
thanks for asking Scott.
i'm actually experiencing a VERY much awaited hypomanic phase right now.
started feeling happy and chipper this weekend sunday night had about 2 hours sleep, last night almost 4 but after the 2 i feel VERY rested today and bounces in my step these days.
i run around getting stuff done at work (but not scattered).
normally i have about two days of this and then it shoots dysphoric or bit psychosis to depression.
but i think i'm having reaction to a med. i just started taking clomid on friday. it helps ovulation, which effects estrogen i think and not sure what else.i was on pristiq, zyprexa, adderall and xanax, but stopped the adderall and xanax when started TTC over month ago, and about two weeks ago stopped the zyprexa.
so my 'rebound' could be from being off the zprexa and pristiq effects too.those are some good meds you mention.
-my best mix was zyprexa and wellbutrinXL,and ritalin but for some reason after my last pregnancy wellbutrin stopped working. when i went to get back on it, it never 'kicked in'.
-seroquel was the BEST sleep med i've ever been on but caused cognitive blunting about three weeks in. couldn't perform my job.
And i'm glad you mention Abilify. i hate the weight gain i got this last time from zyprexa so my doc and i have discussed giving abilify a try.
but since i'm now TTC, i'll wait and give it a try next go around.i thought breifly about oxytocin, but to be honest i didn't know enough about it to know if it could be what helped me so much. i just kept thinking dopamine (because of relationship with prolactin)
but like i mentioned i just started the clomid on friday and saturday is about the time i noticed the 'boost'.**************************************
this is the kind of hypomanic phase i used to have (before meds).
at one time i was on zyprexa alone and did very well for several months. the only reason i changed was it was my GP that Rx and he suggested i see pdoc so i did and he switched me (he turned out to be a bad pdoc but that's another story)sorry i prattled on.
thanks
b2c.
Posted by jakeo29 on December 10, 2008, at 11:04:25
In reply to Re: To finish Neuroscience degree in psychology » SLS, posted by B2chica on December 9, 2008, at 11:41:05
Hi B2 Chica, When I was hospitalized for depression and behavioral attention seeking autistic pseudo-seizure type outbursts as I like to call them, It was some of the best therapy for me to be around people with Bi-polar, depression, anorexia, and psychosis. People in the day to day world stereotype the heck out of us, the most kindest people in the hospital were not the nurses but the patients. I hung around a cool patient that had schizophrenia. She was happy go lucky and singing at the top of her lungs. Since we understand more than most of how these disorders work, I had fun getting to know her, while the nurses behind the desk did not seem to know much about what its like and just gave us "were crazy" looks. We would always talk about how the nurses see to have more problems than we did. All of a sudden a discovery channel show about Ants came on the TV. the schizophrenic patient was all cheery then when that show came on, I never saw someones attention switch so fast to a "paranoid" like state. I had the remote in hand, as I observed that, I sneakily changed the TV to the weather channel. She went back to the "happy-go-lucky" schizophrenic side. Again I think we understand our fellow friends more than some of the trained professionals. I had to go in there for a medication induced Mania state. Therefore for the first time, I know what it can be like for people living with Bi-polar mania and possibly psychosis. I was up during weird hours, and had auditory perception associations and hypervigilance (as if I had super hearing). I want to write the experience in a notebook, but I decided to walk to the hospital because I knew something was not right. Sure enough it was a med reaction as my blood pressure was 175/140 during the manic flight. The symptoms went away in about 30 minutes after they administered lorazempam in the emergency room. However I happily requested to go the psych floor for a few days, to make sure things were back to normal. As a looked out the window in the unit, I said "it's nice to be out of this crazy world for a few days and into the relatively safe, sane, confinement of the psych unit." :)
Posted by SLS on December 10, 2008, at 11:38:47
In reply to Re: To finish Neuroscience degree in psychology » SLS, posted by B2chica on December 9, 2008, at 11:41:05
You can prattle away all you want!
:-)
What I'm about to say is a bit of an overgeneralization, but, if you can stop the mania, you can stop the depression that follows. Most rapid cycling people follow the pattern:
normal -> mania -> depression -> normal
Cutting off the mania often cuts off the depression. It is a good place to interrupt the cycle. You might want to look into:
1. Add lithium and Lamictal.
2. Add Trileptal
3. Add Trileptal and Lamictal
I would recommend trying Lamictal if you haven't already. It can help buffer the switch from mania to depression. Lamictal has properties that seem to halt rapid-cycling when combined with lithium, but has no true anti-manic properties. I am hoping that Trileptal would be effective in place of lithium.
My doctor and his colleagues are of the opinion that there is a special therapeutic synergism between Wellbutrin and Lamictal when used in combination.
Just a few thoughts.
I am currently taking:
Parnate 80mg
nortriptyline 150mg
Lamictal 200mg
Abilify 20mgAbilify has a unique property that renders it a "smart-drug" (partial agonist at DA receptors), in that it "knows" when to act as an antidepressant and when to act as an anti-manic. It is sometimes labeled a dopamine system stabilizer (DSS). If you find Abilify intolerable, there is another DSS drug coming soon called asenapine.
Get well soon.
- Scott
Posted by B2chica on December 10, 2008, at 15:19:33
In reply to Re: To finish Neuroscience degree in psychology, posted by jakeo29 on December 10, 2008, at 11:04:25
i agree with ya about the hosp experience. some in my exp were a bit 'odd', but fun loving.
and ya, the nurses did seem to have more 'issues' than we did. lolbut i love hw you wrote that you have auditory perception issues, i have that too, infact sun and mon night part of the reason i think i couldn't sleep is i could HEAR EVERYTHING, i left christmas lights on in the living room and i SWEAR i could hear them on. every bug, every creak, i swear i was hearing EVERYTHING outside too.
glad to relate...well you know what i mean. sorry you had that.
>>As a looked out the window in the unit, I said "it's nice to be out of this crazy world for a few days and into the relatively safe, sane, confinement of the psych unit." :)
had to laugh as (with a few exceptions) i must agree!
glad to talk with you
Best Wishes
b2c.
Posted by B2chica on December 10, 2008, at 15:32:21
In reply to Re: To finish Neuroscience degree in psychology » B2chica, posted by SLS on December 10, 2008, at 11:38:47
i think i'm coming down off the ride already. less energy today, kinda tired in fact but not bad. was able to get 6 hours sleep last night.
my doc once mentioned lithium...to be honest, that scares me. not sure why. i think because i had a girlfriend on it years ago. she gained lots of weight...and it ended up not working for her 'in the end'. maybe that's why i'm hesistant, i know logically all drugs react different in different people but because that one hits so close to home, and i have lingering 'issues' with her and her death anyway so that complicates even more.
as for Trileptal, been there...didn't work. either it didn't work at all or it was increasing my rapid cycling (which i tend to think it was doing).
Lamictal is another one i haven't tried. but to be honest, the mood stabilizer i've been on haven't seemed to help me that much. it seems to increase cycling...but i hadn't heard (what you mentioned) that it seems to halt rapid cycling before. i'm glad you mention that.***********
But i think i mentioned above that i'm currently trying to conceive so i don't want to add more meds right now. (i think thats been part of the reason i've wanted to get preganant even though i had a tough time of it last time. physically terrible but emotionally...NEVER BETTER).i am really leaning now towards Abilify. i like that you mentioned that its a DSS. i feel that's exactly what i need.
and i Just heard about asenapine and even mentioned to my pdoc that as soon as it becomes available i'm willing to be a first timer trying it as it looked promising to my needs.Thanks for the Great info.
Good to hear from you.ps, i still use your site regularly! can't thank you enough for that place...
Posted by Phillipa on December 10, 2008, at 19:27:56
In reply to To finish Neuroscience degree in psychology, posted by Jakeo29 on December 8, 2008, at 10:00:53
I'm so sorry you had bad experiences with the nursing staff. Quite a few where I worked themselves had mental illness and had been hospitalized. We would let the patients or clients know bits and pieces of ourselves to help them feel safe. And psych patients the majority I met aren't to be feared. Just going through rough times. Love Phillipa
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