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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by deerock on December 1, 2008, at 13:15:54
i stopped SSRI's 2 years ago. since then, i have continued to have these symptoms. i am assuming they will never go away. does anyone else have permanent damage from using SSRI's? is there any way to improve it?
a). Word finding troubles
b). Absolute emotional flatness and deadness
c). Permanently reduced sex drive
d). An odd, pervasive social anxiety/awkwardness
e). Trouble with coordination
f). Bad memory
g). Trouble retrieving words
h). Overall paucity of thought and expression
i). Lack of creativity and intellectual fluidity (mental fog)
j). A lack of ability to "steer" or control the tone of your voice
(I've noticed this- that I sound shaky and agitated no matter what my
mood is, and people think I'm upset when I'm really not)
Posted by Jeroen on December 1, 2008, at 13:51:21
In reply to damage from SSRI's, posted by deerock on December 1, 2008, at 13:15:54
it seems youre going to a ruff time aswell
i have damage from geodon and lamictal
Posted by Phillipa on December 1, 2008, at 14:03:56
In reply to Re: damage from SSRI's, posted by Jeroen on December 1, 2008, at 13:51:21
Hi Deerock welcome to babble see you're new. Gee good question. I personally do know some people who took them for a short period of time were on them and stopped they are fine.Daughter, Son Next door neighbor also and she's okay also. Pesonally take a small dose of luvox 50mg for years. Which SSRI were you on and how high a dose. Lots Of questions. Love Phillipa
Posted by Jeroen on December 1, 2008, at 14:06:09
In reply to Re: damage from SSRI's, posted by Phillipa on December 1, 2008, at 14:03:56
hi philippa i forgot meeting with manic
tell him im sorry
Posted by Valero on December 1, 2008, at 14:12:23
In reply to damage from SSRI's, posted by deerock on December 1, 2008, at 13:15:54
> i stopped SSRI's 2 years ago. since then, i have continued to have these symptoms. i am assuming they will never go away. does anyone else have permanent damage from using SSRI's? is there any way to improve it?
>
> a). Word finding troubles
> b). Absolute emotional flatness and deadness
> c). Permanently reduced sex drive
> d). An odd, pervasive social anxiety/awkwardness
> e). Trouble with coordination
> f). Bad memory
> g). Trouble retrieving words
> h). Overall paucity of thought and expression
> i). Lack of creativity and intellectual fluidity (mental fog)
> j). A lack of ability to "steer" or control the tone of your voice
> (I've noticed this- that I sound shaky and agitated no matter what my
> mood is, and people think I'm upset when I'm really not)
>
Hi
Most of the above sound like depression symptoms, ( though your formulation of this post, suggest that your cognitive faculties are above average!)Maybe the SSRI'S didn't do much for your original depression. ( They didn't for me)
Have you tried an MAOI ? Manerix, Parnate or Nardil, and maybe add on something for libido. ( Tongkat Ali complex, works as good as Viagra with the advantage of increased libido) And of course all those so called "Nootropics", check first, as MAOI's restrict quite severely what one can add on.
V.
Posted by desolationrower on December 1, 2008, at 14:39:23
In reply to Re: damage from SSRI's, posted by Valero on December 1, 2008, at 14:12:23
Most of those sound like dopaminergic problems, i would try some bupropion.
-d/r
Posted by yxibow on December 1, 2008, at 19:42:01
In reply to Re: damage from SSRI's, posted by Valero on December 1, 2008, at 14:12:23
> > i stopped SSRI's 2 years ago. since then, i have continued to have these symptoms. i am assuming they will never go away. does anyone else have permanent damage from using SSRI's? is there any way to improve it?
> >
> > a). Word finding troubles
> > b). Absolute emotional flatness and deadness
> > c). Permanently reduced sex drive
> > d). An odd, pervasive social anxiety/awkwardness
> > e). Trouble with coordination
> > f). Bad memory
> > g). Trouble retrieving words
> > h). Overall paucity of thought and expression
> > i). Lack of creativity and intellectual fluidity (mental fog)
> > j). A lack of ability to "steer" or control the tone of your voice
> > (I've noticed this- that I sound shaky and agitated no matter what my
> > mood is, and people think I'm upset when I'm really not)
> >
> Hi
> Most of the above sound like depression symptoms, ( though your formulation of this post, suggest that your cognitive faculties are above average!)
>
> Maybe the SSRI'S didn't do much for your original depression. ( They didn't for me)I would agree with the above that they sound like symptoms of depression and/or anxiety. People who are antimedication may say otherwise but its rather hard to see how one could be "damaged" from SSRIs. Much more powerful agents like conventional antipsychotics can cause long term effects, but that's another story. Anything is possible, ACE inhibitors can cause nasty stuff too.
Though often people who go of SSRIs discover that they were better on them. It reflects the subtlety of some of the drugs and the period of time that they take to work and one feels that the symptoms have gone away so they quit -- agents are there for a purpose, they are palliatives for a disorder.
I'm not sure what your primary diagnosis is, but moderate to severe depression/anxiety can bring on any of those as well as the accompanying psychological symptoms.
I'm not sure I would go straight to MAOIs, that's a serious commitment, there are other alternatives like TCAs such as clomipramine. Have you been through the major list of SSRIs (I know there are a lot, but they aren't all cut from the same mold)?-- best wishes
Jay
Posted by bleauberry on December 1, 2008, at 19:58:43
In reply to damage from SSRI's, posted by deerock on December 1, 2008, at 13:15:54
Most professionals would probably shrug it off as progression of the underlying disease or some other excuse. Me, I firmly believe longterm SSRI changes genetic coding and/or changes receptor densitities and sensitivities and/or somehow disconfigures the dopamine system.
Posted by Phillipa on December 1, 2008, at 20:12:22
In reply to Re: damage from SSRI's, posted by Jeroen on December 1, 2008, at 14:06:09
Jeroen make a note for yourself will let him know it's too late now to meet.. Love Phillipa
Posted by polarbear206 on December 1, 2008, at 20:50:53
In reply to damage from SSRI's, posted by deerock on December 1, 2008, at 13:15:54
> i stopped SSRI's 2 years ago. since then, i have continued to have these symptoms. i am assuming they will never go away. does anyone else have permanent damage from using SSRI's? is there any way to improve it?
>
> a). Word finding troubles
> b). Absolute emotional flatness and deadness
> c). Permanently reduced sex drive
> d). An odd, pervasive social anxiety/awkwardness
> e). Trouble with coordination
> f). Bad memory
> g). Trouble retrieving words
> h). Overall paucity of thought and expression
> i). Lack of creativity and intellectual fluidity (mental fog)
> j). A lack of ability to "steer" or control the tone of your voice
> (I've noticed this- that I sound shaky and agitated no matter what my
> mood is, and people think I'm upset when I'm really not)
>This is most likely depression. It can present with different symptoms than you origionally had in the past, prior to initiation of SSRI's. It's the nature of the beast.
Posted by Sigismund on December 2, 2008, at 1:09:03
In reply to Re: damage from SSRI's, posted by bleauberry on December 1, 2008, at 19:58:43
The list is really familiar to me.
I've never taken an SSRI though.
Which doesn't mean anything.
Posted by fayeroe on December 2, 2008, at 10:07:56
In reply to damage from SSRI's, posted by deerock on December 1, 2008, at 13:15:54
> i stopped SSRI's 2 years ago. since then, i have continued to have these symptoms. i am assuming they will never go away. does anyone else have permanent damage from using SSRI's? is there any way to improve it?
>
> a). Word finding troubles
> b). Absolute emotional flatness and deadness
> c). Permanently reduced sex drive
> d). An odd, pervasive social anxiety/awkwardness
> e). Trouble with coordination
> f). Bad memory
> g). Trouble retrieving words
> h). Overall paucity of thought and expression
> i). Lack of creativity and intellectual fluidity (mental fog)
> j). A lack of ability to "steer" or control the tone of your voice
> (I've noticed this- that I sound shaky and agitated no matter what my
> mood is, and people think I'm upset when I'm really not)Your ability to form a sentence seems above average now.
I have a couple of questions.
1. How did you feel before you were prescribed an SSRI?
2. How did you feel on the medication?Your symptoms now sound like I feel when I'm taking a med that isn't helping or taking nothing at all.
Keep us updated. Pat
I
>
Posted by elanor roosevelt on December 3, 2008, at 20:13:06
In reply to damage from SSRI's, posted by deerock on December 1, 2008, at 13:15:54
1- take horny goat weed2-consider some amino acids and B-vitamins
3- if you figure out the word retrieval issue please let me know
4- practice talking at home--deep breath and speak from your chest
5- take good care of yourself and good luck
Posted by 49er on December 6, 2008, at 7:54:03
In reply to Re: damage from SSRI's, posted by Valero on December 1, 2008, at 14:12:23
V,
Before I get to my main point, as a person who has a learning disability, it is very possible to have above average cognitive abilities in some areas and below average in others. I realize you were trying to pay the OP a compliment but just because your posts sound intelligent doesn't mean you don't have problems in other areas.
Anyway, I disagree vehemently that most of these issues are due strictly to depression. I will go through them item by item:
a). Word finding troubles - Med induced side effect
b). Absolute emotional flatness and deadness - Can be depression. But if you have been on a med for awhile and other areas of your life have improved, chances are this is a med induced side effect. There is a study which I am too lazy to get right now that shows this in elderly people.
c). Permanently reduced sex drive - Med induced
d). An odd, pervasive social anxiety/awkwardness - As one who feels that meds worsened my LD symptoms, including social issues, I am inclined to say this could be both.
e). Trouble with coordination - Med induced
f). Bad memory - Mostly med induced. I can see where being depressed can cause a bad memory but the OP has been on meds for awhile.
g). Trouble retrieving words - Without a doubt, this is med induced
h). Overall paucity of thought and expression - I can see where depression has a role but again, if you have been on meds for awhile, it most likely due to the drugs
i). Lack of creativity and intellectual fluidity (mental fog) - Same as paucity of thought and expression
j). A lack of ability to "steer" or control the tone of your voice - OMG, I feel that meds worsened this symptom which is part of my learning disability. Definitely med induced.
k (I've noticed this- that I sound shaky and agitated no matter what my mood is, and people think I'm upset when I'm really not) - Are you sure we're not twins:)? This issue is part of my learning disability. To be honest, I don't think meds have affected this issue in a negative or positive way.
But if you're noticing this and it wasn't an issue prior to you being placed on meds, then it is definitely med induced.
Hope this helps.
49er
Posted by deerock on December 6, 2008, at 8:06:17
In reply to Re: damage from SSRI's, posted by 49er on December 6, 2008, at 7:54:03
49er,
do the symptoms get better when you stop the meds?
if they are permanent, do you feel like the meds made your life worse than pre-taking the meds?
how do you live with the damage if it is permanent? thanks.
Posted by 49er on December 6, 2008, at 11:04:59
In reply to Re: damage from SSRI's - 49er, posted by deerock on December 6, 2008, at 8:06:17
> 49er,
>
> do the symptoms get better when you stop the meds?
>
> if they are permanent, do you feel like the meds made your life worse than pre-taking the meds?
>
> how do you live with the damage if it is permanent? thanks.Hi,
Great questions.
1, Do the symptoms get better when you stop the meds?
Many people on the Paxil Progress Boards have reported an improvement. But there is a small percentage of people who are still struggling even after being off meds 3 years.
I do feel that the ones who are struggling tapered too quickly or cold turkeyed off the meds.
I do worry that even though I am tapering the meds slowly, due to being on them for 10 plus years, I might have long term problems. One problem that is definitely permanent is my hearing loss.
I have had windows where I feel great but sadly, they are uncommon. Unfortunately, the insomnia I am suffering as a withdrawal symptoms is destroying my life right now.
I think the answer is unknown.
2. if they are permanent, do you feel like the meds made your life worse than pre-taking the meds?
Even if all my problems go away other than the hearing loss, I feel like these meds destroyed my life. Knowing what I now know, I would haven't taken 1 drop of them.
3. how do you live with the damage if it is permanent?
Oh man, that is a tough question. I try to have a positive attitude but the insomnia is making that hard.
Obviously, you have to learn now to compensate depending on the situation. It is hard.
If that doesn't answer your question, feel free to ask in a different way.
49er
Posted by desolationrower on December 6, 2008, at 15:00:31
In reply to Re: damage from SSRI's, posted by 49er on December 6, 2008, at 7:54:03
I think it is possible for drugs to cause permanent problems; I agree with that. I do think that some things which are normal aging might be seen as drug induced. If one went on an sri when you were 18, and come off at age 30, its normal for libido to be lower, due to age. Also, chronic depression can have harmful effects on the mind, especially when the treatment isn't working. So i don't agree that somethign that is an issue post-drug that wasn't an issue pre-drug is necessarily because of the drug.
I'd also like to note that all of those symptoms sound related to reduced dopaminergic function, either conclusively or as a theoretical possibility. I really would suggest a drug like bupropion or selegiline as the best possibility for alleviating them.
-d/r
Posted by 49er on December 6, 2008, at 15:53:08
In reply to Re: damage from SSRI's, posted by desolationrower on December 6, 2008, at 15:00:31
> I think it is possible for drugs to cause permanent problems; I agree with that. I do think that some things which are normal aging might be seen as drug induced. If one went on an sri when you were 18, and come off at age 30, its normal for libido to be lower, due to age. Also, chronic depression can have harmful effects on the mind, especially when the treatment isn't working. So i don't agree that somethign that is an issue post-drug that wasn't an issue pre-drug is necessarily because of the drug.
>
> I'd also like to note that all of those symptoms sound related to reduced dopaminergic function, either conclusively or as a theoretical possibility. I really would suggest a drug like bupropion or selegiline as the best possibility for alleviating them.
>
> -d/rD/R
Fair point about aging.
However, Wellbutrin XL and Adderall were two of the drugs I was on and I still had alot of the symptoms that the OP mentioned.
Wellbutrin definitely worsened my word retrieval problems and caused forgetfulness. I would lose things that I had no memory of losing which I found very scary and frightening.
Unfortunately, your theory doesn't hold up in my case and I have seen post on other boards in which people suffered similar side effects from Wellbutrin.
Sometimes, another med isn't always the answer.
49er
Posted by zzz7 on December 6, 2008, at 16:18:28
In reply to Re: damage from SSRI's, posted by desolationrower on December 6, 2008, at 15:00:31
Or Requip. Or Amantadine.
Also, the brain is much more plastic than was previously thought. So even if medication did change things, the brain can be changed in a way that reverses or mitigates the previous changes.
Posted by Valero on December 6, 2008, at 17:58:25
In reply to Re: damage from SSRI's, posted by 49er on December 6, 2008, at 7:54:03
I said " sounds like depression" not the same as "strictly due to depression" the rather exhaustive list of complaints from the first post seems a heavy charge to lay on the original SSRI treatment, however at a certain point in time it's no longer possible to neatly catalouge these phenomena , it's subjectively too complicated to unravel, nor would I find it advantageous to dwell on the fact that one may be "impaired" in some way by previous use of a substance. There are effective solutions available for most of the complaints listed, be they chemical, natural, or simply through the passage of time.
Think positive !
Posted by 49er on December 7, 2008, at 5:44:34
In reply to Re: damage from SSRI's, posted by Valero on December 6, 2008, at 17:58:25
> I said " sounds like depression" not the same as "strictly due to depression" the rather exhaustive list of complaints from the first post seems a heavy charge to lay on the original SSRI treatment, however at a certain point in time it's no longer possible to neatly catalouge these phenomena , it's subjectively too complicated to unravel, nor would I find it advantageous to dwell on the fact that one may be "impaired" in some way by previous use of a substance. There are effective solutions available for most of the complaints listed, be they chemical, natural, or simply through the passage of time.
>
> Think positive !Valero,
I disagree as I feel the risks of these meds are greatly minimized in the psychiatric community and blown off as problems with the "illness". So I was concerned when I saw people in their responses doing the same thing,
What usually happens is that people get chemical solutions which results in a never ending prescription of meds as you keep medicating side effect which piles on additional problems. That is why I feel it is important to sort it out as people were just making the assumption it could be the original illness.
Regarding being positive, I said that a majority of people seem to recover but there is a significant minority who are having problems. In my opinion, false optimism is not helpful either.
If you still disagree, you might want to go to this thread,
http://tinyurl.com/5zkrfz and look for a post near the end of the thread by anonymous:This person feels psych meds helped him and his family but said he works in the industry and that there is very long term toxicity that has yet to be made public.
49er
This is the end of the thread.
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