![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 44. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by bulldog2 on November 13, 2008, at 11:57:12
When I first starting lurking here about five years ago I was interested in med info on depression/anxiety and probably bipolar 2.
Problem is there are so many opinions here regarding meds.
1. meds and cbt work the best
2. meds work
3. sometimes meds work
4. meds are toxic and p-docs are all fakes
5. just need diet and exercise
6. try accupuncture and herbs
etc.I guess from reading all the negative stuff about meds I never have really completed a med cycle. start and stop quickly except for benzos.
I have done the diet and exercise regime my entire life and that hasn't really worked. I still slip into depression and anxiety or possible bipolar moods. and yes I have done talk therapy for years without real help.
So now that i fear p-docs are shams and meds are toxic plots to destroy us it really has made it hard to get and really see if meds work.
Life is passing me by. All these opinions about meds and p-docs and how to handle mental issues has basically paralyzed me into indecision.
I wonder if I would have been better off if I had never stumbled on this site. Just trusted my p-doc and given meds a fair shot. I guess that would have been the best way to find out if meds work.
Anyone find to much info and to many opinions makes treatment more diffucult?
Posted by fleeting flutterby on November 13, 2008, at 12:41:09
In reply to Anyone Ever Feel More Confused At This Forum?, posted by bulldog2 on November 13, 2008, at 11:57:12
> When I first starting lurking here about five years ago I was interested in med info on depression/anxiety and probably bipolar 2.
> Problem is there are so many opinions here regarding meds.
> 1. meds and cbt work the best
> 2. meds work
> 3. sometimes meds work
> 4. meds are toxic and p-docs are all fakes
> 5. just need diet and exercise
> 6. try accupuncture and herbs
> etc.
>
> I guess from reading all the negative stuff about meds I never have really completed a med cycle. start and stop quickly except for benzos.
> I have done the diet and exercise regime my entire life and that hasn't really worked. I still slip into depression and anxiety or possible bipolar moods. and yes I have done talk therapy for years without real help.
> So now that i fear p-docs are shams and meds are toxic plots to destroy us it really has made it hard to get and really see if meds work.
> Life is passing me by. All these opinions about meds and p-docs and how to handle mental issues has basically paralyzed me into indecision.
> I wonder if I would have been better off if I had never stumbled on this site. Just trusted my p-doc and given meds a fair shot. I guess that would have been the best way to find out if meds work.
> Anyone find to much info and to many opinions makes treatment more diffucult?<<<
-------I can sure understand your feelings on this..... I guess that's one GOOD thing for me about not trusting others. I don't EVER take what a person says and use it as absolute fact...... this can work to my detriment a lot of times *blushing* -- but-- guess in this particular situation, it has actually helped me!!-- because I fully try things for myself-- what ever it is-- meds, therapy, exercise ... whatever-- and then I, and only I, decide if it's a sham or if it has helped me a bit.I bet there are people on this board that will agree with only #1, and those that just agree with #2 and so on....... we are all so so different... there isn't a one size fits all or even one size fits most. (IMO)
I think one must search into their inner-being and find what brings that being the most peace-- be it meds, therapy, meditation, exercise or a combination of things.
you know that saying-- "one man's trash is another man's treasure"--- I think it applies here too. ;o)
good luck to you and try not to get discouraged-- keep searching-- and you will find.
flutterby-mandy
Posted by Phillipa on November 13, 2008, at 13:09:15
In reply to Anyone Ever Feel More Confused At This Forum?, posted by bulldog2 on November 13, 2008, at 11:57:12
Definitely as found it when cymbalta came out and quite after three months no response at 60 them and now even vitamins scare me. So what's the answer? Love Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on November 13, 2008, at 13:11:18
In reply to Re: Anyone Ever Feel More Confused At This Forum?, posted by fleeting flutterby on November 13, 2008, at 12:41:09
Hi Mandy I feel the older one gets the harder it is to try new things and diseases phsical pop up and older people are just more careful. My thoughts only. Love Phillipa
Posted by psyclist on November 13, 2008, at 13:41:32
In reply to Re: Anyone Ever Feel More Confused At This Forum? » fleeting flutterby, posted by Phillipa on November 13, 2008, at 13:11:18
I reckon try the meds and keep a diary and enter your feelings and thoughts every day religiously. You have to be strict with yourself. You can note down subtle variations like when you take the medication, how much you take, how you sleep, feel, eat etc. etc. Then in the end you have a thorough record that you can consult and base your decisions on instead of perhaps basing it on the whim of the day.
Posted by Phillipa on November 13, 2008, at 13:49:52
In reply to Re: Anyone Ever Feel More Confused At This Forum?, posted by psyclist on November 13, 2008, at 13:41:32
I tried that for five years and had stacks of legal paper pads and the same things written on them all. I guess I'm a whimp. Phillipa
Posted by seldomseen on November 13, 2008, at 14:00:56
In reply to Anyone Ever Feel More Confused At This Forum?, posted by bulldog2 on November 13, 2008, at 11:57:12
Nope, I don't get about my own treatment here. I get a little confused about how other's maybe handling theirs, but to each their own I guess.
My best advice though if you are confused, you need to first decide if meds are something you want to invest in and try. If so, then your first job is to find a pdoc that you trust and stick with them. They definately are NOT all shams.
If meds aren't the way, whatever method or combination of methods, you chose you have to invest in, commit to and follow as best you can.
IMHO a little bit of this and a little bit of that will get you a whole lot of nothing.
Seldom.
Posted by Ricker on November 13, 2008, at 14:23:56
In reply to Anyone Ever Feel More Confused At This Forum?, posted by bulldog2 on November 13, 2008, at 11:57:12
Well, I'm learning to take most things I read here with a grain of lithium?? ahh I mean salt!
Something thats come to light, for me anyway, is the treatment regime of most family docs. It appears that many of them are quick to prescribe the A/D's.
Sure most patients will present when they are feeling depressed and the obvious med for that is...antidepressant!
Why are mood stabilizers not the first line of treatment? All this talk about "poop out" just screams out, to me anyway, that a mood stabilizer is needed, not more A/D's.
I've read that chronic A/D therapy can infact increase a mood disorder and make for a more treatment resistant patient.
I've gained some positive insight from many posters here, keeping in mind all posts are nothing more than opinions/experiences.
For me, the only fact based posts are mine, and even then, reasonable doubt is a possibility!
Regards, Rick
Posted by Maxime on November 13, 2008, at 14:26:25
In reply to Anyone Ever Feel More Confused At This Forum?, posted by bulldog2 on November 13, 2008, at 11:57:12
It's the information age. You have to know what information to accept and what to reject. I know it's not easy, but that's all that you can. I can see how one could get more confused by reading posts here.
Posted by bulldog2 on November 13, 2008, at 14:40:53
In reply to Re: Anyone Ever Feel More Confused At This Forum? » bulldog2, posted by Ricker on November 13, 2008, at 14:23:56
> Well, I'm learning to take most things I read here with a grain of lithium?? ahh I mean salt!
>
> Something thats come to light, for me anyway, is the treatment regime of most family docs. It appears that many of them are quick to prescribe the A/D's.
>
> Sure most patients will present when they are feeling depressed and the obvious med for that is...antidepressant!
>
> Why are mood stabilizers not the first line of treatment? All this talk about "poop out" just screams out, to me anyway, that a mood stabilizer is needed, not more A/D's.
>
> I've read that chronic A/D therapy can infact increase a mood disorder and make for a more treatment resistant patient.
>
> I've gained some positive insight from many posters here, keeping in mind all posts are nothing more than opinions/experiences.
>
> For me, the only fact based posts are mine, and even then, reasonable doubt is a possibility!
>
> Regards, RickVery interesting..most family docs are not experienced enough to diagnose bipolar so just see depression and or anxiety..You may be right about the use of mood stabilizers being used more..But only an experienced p-doc will diagnose that. Even with them ad ad is often first prescribed. and most always an ssri..
Posted by Jeroen on November 13, 2008, at 14:56:49
In reply to Anyone Ever Feel More Confused At This Forum?, posted by bulldog2 on November 13, 2008, at 11:57:12
theyre toxic *ssholes
feel the same way
got toxic psychosis, tardive dyskinesia after what the doctor ordered
Posted by linkadge on November 13, 2008, at 20:16:18
In reply to Anyone Ever Feel More Confused At This Forum?, posted by bulldog2 on November 13, 2008, at 11:57:12
I think people go from one extreme to the other.
Sure, I believe meds are toxic. That doesn't mean I think that doctors are out to get you etc. etc.
I think people just want to believe one extreme cause it makes things nice and easy to understand. Life is always somewhere in between.
I just personally think they haven't invented something that is safe (or terrably effective for that matter).
Most of the BP medications are neurotoxic. I don't mean that as an undeducated blanket statement but it is essentially true.
Low does lithium is probably the safest BP med and even it has its toxicities.BP II is basically a mitochondrial disorder IMHO,
How about turmeric and omega-3? Turmeric is a stronger antidepressant that SSRI's in mouse studies and it is powerfully neruoprotective / neurotrophic. Agents like this are showing promise in a number of brain diseases. Its time to give your brain what it needs. That doesn't mean go all out and shovel down piles of vitamins and amino acids, it means judiciously picking substances which have documented effects in problems like this.
Bipolar and BPII are some of the poorest treated mood disorders in my opinion. Most people spend way to much time in the depressive phase and there are significant and lasting impairments in cognition etc which often remain inadressed.
Treating a mood disorder is a puzzle. Perhaps medicaitons are a piece of that puzzle for you. But, they are still just one tool in the trunk. I think that a full recovery will necessarily take more than medications. The people who recover fully are the ones that attack it from every possible angle.
Linkadge
Posted by Phillipa on November 13, 2008, at 20:24:15
In reply to Re: Anyone Ever Feel More Confused At This Forum?, posted by linkadge on November 13, 2008, at 20:16:18
Link in your opinion what are the other ways? Seriously? Love Phillipa
Posted by B2chica on November 14, 2008, at 8:40:08
In reply to Anyone Ever Feel More Confused At This Forum?, posted by bulldog2 on November 13, 2008, at 11:57:12
that's actually what i like about this site.
all HONEST opinions, not a drug companies site that only lists "standard" side effects. we get peoples views ALL views. whether or not we agree with them is something we decide and can choose to respond only to those we want to.i like getting the full gammett of experiences so that i can make my OWN mind up based on experiences here, fact sheets AND pdocs info.
i like what fleeting flutterby said about "one man's trash is another man's treasure"
**************
and i was actually Dx by my GP but he then referred me to a pdoc so that i could know for sure. HOwever he is MORE than happy to Rx for me.************
and the hard part about any mental illness is there's no blood test or brain scan that can say definitively what you have and how to treat it.
it's a combination of the doctors, pharmacologists, and YOU. the docs HAVE to be good listeners cuz it really relies on your perception of how you react to a med, or how you are feeling (mood or otherwise) while off or ON a drug.***********
and for the record i believe in a holistic practice.
some meds,
some therapy,
sunlight,
and some diet and exercise adjustments.
b2c.
Posted by JadeKelly on November 14, 2008, at 15:46:34
In reply to Anyone Ever Feel More Confused At This Forum?, posted by bulldog2 on November 13, 2008, at 11:57:12
Hi Bulldog, don't have the time to read other posts, however, here is MHO:
Drop 4,5,& 6. I get tired of all that. Were not talking about a bad mood here. Were, IMHO, not going to snap out out of it. I'm not sure how educated you are or aren't re: mechanism of action of different A/D's, I sure can't help there. All I know is, if I hadn't asked my PDoc to prescribe MAOI, I KNOW he would'nt have prescribed it. MAOI's work for me. Only ones. So even if it stops working, I know they can, and I'll look for augmentation. This is after almost 3 years of this he*l. Fairly sudden atyp/tr depression. I feel your frustration. Can you pick up a book by a reputable author that is just based on the drugs themselves and how they work, and the application to various symtom combos? NOT a therapy book, a scientific book that you or I could understand? Then maybe compare that to experiences here? The value of this sight to me, is a lot of people think outside the box, where a conservative PDoc (most, I feel), wouldn't even mention. Now, if YOU bring it up thats different. In fact, why don't I have such a book??!!! Another post????haha
Good Luck, don't give up!
~Jade
Posted by kenny7 on November 14, 2008, at 16:25:08
In reply to Re: Anyone Ever Feel More Confused At This Forum?, posted by bulldog2 on November 13, 2008, at 14:40:53
Agreed. SSRI's are practically useless. I have taken at least 15 of them...If and SSRI gave me remission, I wouldn't even be complaining about a psychiatric illness. That bothers me more than your list...And the fact that some people (the ex. I am thinking of was not on this sight) make up their own damn pharmaceuticals on the basis of the proposed actions of some. Like I need serotonin, so Zoloft I need Gaba...so Clonaz....Gabapentin!
Posted by bulldog2 on November 15, 2008, at 9:27:50
In reply to Re: Anyone Ever Feel More Confused At This Forum?, posted by linkadge on November 13, 2008, at 20:16:18
> I think people go from one extreme to the other.
>
> Sure, I believe meds are toxic. That doesn't mean I think that doctors are out to get you etc. etc.
>
> I think people just want to believe one extreme cause it makes things nice and easy to understand. Life is always somewhere in between.
>
> I just personally think they haven't invented something that is safe (or terrably effective for that matter).
>
>
>
> Most of the BP medications are neurotoxic. I don't mean that as an undeducated blanket statement but it is essentially true.
>
>
> Low does lithium is probably the safest BP med and even it has its toxicities.
>
> BP II is basically a mitochondrial disorder IMHO,
>
> How about turmeric and omega-3? Turmeric is a stronger antidepressant that SSRI's in mouse studies and it is powerfully neruoprotective / neurotrophic. Agents like this are showing promise in a number of brain diseases. Its time to give your brain what it needs. That doesn't mean go all out and shovel down piles of vitamins and amino acids, it means judiciously picking substances which have documented effects in problems like this.
>
> Bipolar and BPII are some of the poorest treated mood disorders in my opinion. Most people spend way to much time in the depressive phase and there are significant and lasting impairments in cognition etc which often remain inadressed.
>
> Treating a mood disorder is a puzzle. Perhaps medicaitons are a piece of that puzzle for you. But, they are still just one tool in the trunk. I think that a full recovery will necessarily take more than medications. The people who recover fully are the ones that attack it from every possible angle.
>
>
> LinkadgeUnfortunately while alternative health appears
the most logical choice (give the body what it needs) after almost 40 years of trying almost every modality (diet,exercise,accupuncture,chinese medicine etc) I have been very disappointed with the results. This field is poorly regulated with dozens of modalties available. Claims are often
made with no scientific validation. So if there are things that work it is like looking for a needle in a haystack.
I have read that mouse studies are more often wrong than right. Their physiology is different enough from us that what works for them very often does not work for us.
While healthy living is certainly a good adjunct to getting better right now alternative health needs to get organzized and weed out what works from what is often quackery. I've probaly spent thousands on ineffective treatments.As to toxic meds that is not just psychotropic meds but allopathic western medicine period. Most meds are toxic to some degree and rarely cure but address symtpoms. But i guess sometimes that's the best we have.
I remember years ago reading a book by Patty Duke about her battle with bp. Life was spiraling out of control. Drinking binges,delusions,one night stands, tamper tantrums and her life just falling apart. She started lithium and the storm abated. Now the med may be toxic and eventually destroy her mind but I guess one has to weigh the options. But for her it was a miracle.
Hopefully one day we will know what the mind needs. Right now we really just don't know what the mind needs. To many claims and not enough hard core evidence.
I personally believe that some brains have faulty wiring from birth just like any organ can be defective. I don't know that we ever be able to cure people like that with the right supplements.
Posted by linkadge on November 16, 2008, at 6:27:01
In reply to Re: Anyone Ever Feel More Confused At This Forum?, posted by bulldog2 on November 15, 2008, at 9:27:50
>after almost 40 years of trying almost every >modality (diet,exercise,accupuncture,chinese >medicine etc) I have been very disappointed with >the results.
Well, you can throw prescription drugs into that list else we wouldn't be having this conversation. Nevertheless, there are tons of ways to try highly regulated alternative substances. You can buy things like taurine in regulated quanitities. I don't think "diet" alone can help bipolar disorder nor do I think "acupuncture" or "chinese medicine" can either. Chinese medicine consists of a handful of monoamine oxidase inhibiting adaptogens, which are certainly not mood stabilizers.
There are a number of alternative agents which I do think can help bipolar disorder though.
>This field is poorly regulated with dozens of >modalties available. Claims are often
>made with no scientific validation.Thats why you need to do your own research and use the agents for which there is evidence efficacy.
>So if there are things that work it is like >looking for a needle in a haystack.
Not necessarily. The manic phase is associated with elevated calcium and PKC metabolism for isntance. Calming mania often responds to agents that stabilize calcium function in neuronal membranes. There are many studies that show taurine for instance can stabilize calcium currents while exerting a powerful antioxidant effect. Omega-3 fatty acids inhibit protein kinase C function and GSK-3b function just like ithium and valproate. Omega-3 also upregulates the neuroprotective protin BCL-2 just like lithium and valproate.
>I have read that mouse studies are more often >wrong than right.
Most of the psychoactive drugs we ingest are the product of rodent screening processes. Sure they can be wrong, but they do indicate potential benefit.
>While healthy living is certainly a good adjunct >to getting better right now alternative health >needs to get organzized
I'd say conventional medicine needs to get organized too.
>and weed out what works from what is often >quackery. I've probaly spent thousands on >ineffective treatments.
I have spend 10's of thousands on innefective prescriptions (had I been the one paying for them). So whats your point?
>As to toxic meds that is not just psychotropic >meds but allopathic western medicine period. >Most meds are toxic to some degree and rarely >cure but address symtpoms. But i guess sometimes >that's the best we have.
No, its not necessarily the best we have, its the best that can be patented. Its the best that money can be made from.
If anthocyannins from blueberries could be patented, they would. If turmeric could be patented it would. If omega-3 could be patented, it would, if melatonin could be patented, it would.
>I remember years ago reading a book by Patty >Duke about her battle with bp. Life was >spiraling out of control. Drinking >binges,delusions,one night stands, tamper >tantrums and her life just falling apart. She >started lithium and the storm abated. Now the >med may be toxic and eventually destroy her mind >but I guess one has to weigh the options.
One can't well weight the options if one doesn't undestand their options or know a little bit about their disorder. I am not saying that mood sbailizers don't work (for some people). I am saying that for many bipolars they don't work well enough and have unnaceptable side effects.
Agnets like omega-3 and taurine are being studied at Harvard for their mood stabilizing effects. The researhcers in these studies note similarities in the biochemical targets of these agents and other mood stabilizers. While agents like this may not replace conventional mood stabilizers for some individuals, well controlled studies indicate that even severe bipolars can significantly reduce their need for medications by adding agents like this to their regiment.
Studies by Dr. Andrew Stoll concluded that such medication changes like this can help many bipolars live in a more well state.
>But for her it was a miracle.
>Hopefully one day we will know what the mind >needs. Right now we really just don't know what >the mind needs. To many claims and not enough >hard core evidence.There is some very good evidence and research of what is going wrong in the bipolar brain. I would urge you to read some of the conclusions and findings of Dr. Manjii, a molecular biologics at the forefront of research on bipolar and the biochemical targets of mood stabilizing medications.
>I personally believe that some brains have >faulty wiring from birth just like any organ can >be defective. I don't know that we ever be able >to cure people like that with the right >supplements.I partially agree with you. But then why would you want to down a handful of lamotrigine and olanzapine (or other drugs which geneally supress the brains ability to establish new connections) when you can feed it with agents capable improving the conenctivity and functionality of the brain.
Note: I do put lithium on this list since it has some neurotrophic capacity, but most other BP medications do not.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on November 16, 2008, at 6:46:15
In reply to Re: Anyone Ever Feel More Confused At This Forum?, posted by bulldog2 on November 15, 2008, at 9:27:50
Don't get me wrong, at the end of the day I really don't care which path you choose.
I just personally cannot follow my mother's path. I want a better future than she had.
She was diagnosed as bipolar at my age and did the whole conventional medication thing.
Sure her disorder responded to psychiatric medications during the acute crisis, but what happens after that?
Its been on and off this or that mood stabilizer, antipsychotic, antidepressant etc. She has gone steadily downhill and now a once highly intellegent university graduate has only a fraction of her faculties left.
She has a number of diseases (liver, kidney, diabeties) now as a result of the use of psychiatric medications and her moods are not well controlled.
I started on psychiatric meds before university and saw my grades plummit. I went from A's to D's because the mood stabilizers (especially antipsychotics) made it impossible to concentrate or study. I was hospitalized 3 times for a month or more, during which I was put on combinations of 5-10 medications and told I would never be able to come off them.
Anyhow, to make a long story short, I slowly came off the drugs half way through university and started to eat well, exercise, and started to experiment with alternatives.
My grades went up to A's in third and 4th year univesity (which is very rare for people who don't do well in 1st and 2nd year) and I graduated and am now on my way to be a math/physics teacher.
I guess what I am trying to say is that if I belived the doctors at the hospital, I would still be on 5-10 medications, I would have dropped out of university and my brain would still be sustaining who knows what form of neurological insults.
Thats my story, take from it what you will.
Don't get me wrong. My moods are not always %100, but I am certainly doing better overall off meds.
Linkadge
Posted by bulldog2 on November 16, 2008, at 8:36:33
In reply to Re: Anyone Ever Feel More Confused At This Forum?, posted by linkadge on November 16, 2008, at 6:46:15
> Don't get me wrong, at the end of the day I really don't care which path you choose.
>
> I just personally cannot follow my mother's path. I want a better future than she had.
>
> She was diagnosed as bipolar at my age and did the whole conventional medication thing.
>
> Sure her disorder responded to psychiatric medications during the acute crisis, but what happens after that?
>
> Its been on and off this or that mood stabilizer, antipsychotic, antidepressant etc. She has gone steadily downhill and now a once highly intellegent university graduate has only a fraction of her faculties left.
>
> She has a number of diseases (liver, kidney, diabeties) now as a result of the use of psychiatric medications and her moods are not well controlled.
>
> I started on psychiatric meds before university and saw my grades plummit. I went from A's to D's because the mood stabilizers (especially antipsychotics) made it impossible to concentrate or study. I was hospitalized 3 times for a month or more, during which I was put on combinations of 5-10 medications and told I would never be able to come off them.
>
> Anyhow, to make a long story short, I slowly came off the drugs half way through university and started to eat well, exercise, and started to experiment with alternatives.
>
> My grades went up to A's in third and 4th year univesity (which is very rare for people who don't do well in 1st and 2nd year) and I graduated and am now on my way to be a math/physics teacher.
>
> I guess what I am trying to say is that if I belived the doctors at the hospital, I would still be on 5-10 medications, I would have dropped out of university and my brain would still be sustaining who knows what form of neurological insults.
>
> Thats my story, take from it what you will.
>
> Don't get me wrong. My moods are not always %100, but I am certainly doing better overall off meds.
>
>
>
>
> Linkadge
>>
> Don't get me wrong, at the end of the day I really don't care which path you chooseI wouldn't expect you to. Why even bring that up.
We're discussing an issue about toxic meds.Again we have to remember that what worked for you may not work for others.You were one of the lucky ones that found a natural formula that worked. Others have not been that fortunate.
>
> By the way nac and folate may be a good adjunct to antisezure meds and also prevent cogntive decline. Nac has is a powerful antioxidant and may protect the liver and kidneys. So one may get the best of both worlds.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Posted by linkadge on November 16, 2008, at 9:50:18
In reply to Re: Anyone Ever Feel More Confused At This Forum?, posted by bulldog2 on November 16, 2008, at 8:36:33
>Again we have to remember that what worked for >you may not work for others.You were one of the >lucky ones that found a natural formula that >worked. Others have not been that fortunate.
I don't beleive there is anything inherently wrong with taking medications. I just think that people need to keep an open mind. There are still many misconceptions today. Even still these days, I hear people talking about how they have a defective serotonin gene, and how the SSRI's fix the problem. Doctors are actually still telling their patients this, even though such claims are completely unfounded.
There is too much faith (IMHO) in what doctors want to present as 'established' facts about mood disorders. In many ways we are finding out things that are completely contradictory to conventional belifes.
The 'serotonin hypothesis' of depression for isntance, grows weaker with every year of research. I think that some people believe that the only true cures can come from doctors. Faith in the efficacy of a treatment probably accounts for more than half of a treatment's efficacy. For most people, alternatives probably don't work because of a lack of faith in their efficacy.
I started to loose faith in the validiy of modern psychiatry as I leared about just how biased much of the data on conventional antidepressants is. In many ways, the drugs stopped working as I began to loose that faith.
In some ways it was a painful paradigm shift that I did not want to embrace. But the more I sift through research the more I learn that concerns me about what people are lead to believe.
I mean, if you want to talk lack of research, just look at some of the drug coctails that patients are given. Patients are given meds for bipolar like topomax, gapapentin, dispite the fact that there is virtually no data to support their use in bipolar. Numerous untested coctails are routinely used are used in mood disorders. Many studies indiciate that combinations of certain drugs increase the nerotoxicity. I remember reading that an SSRI / depakote combination created a synergistic increase in oxadative stress and free radical production compared to either alone.
In mood disorders there are a nummber of findings about things like excessive neurogenic inflamation, mitochondrial dysfunction, glial pathologies, HPA axis imballences, electrolyte imbalances, oxadative stress, significantly depleated anxioxidant systems etc. Many of these things are probably better adressed through dietary and lifestyle manipulations.
Many medication depleat nutirents that heal. Some increase oxidative stress, some are cause mitochondrial dysfunction, some are neuroendocrine disruptorrs, some worsen HPA axis imballances.
Linkadge
Posted by ricker on November 16, 2008, at 16:09:24
In reply to Re: Anyone Ever Feel More Confused At This Forum?, posted by linkadge on November 16, 2008, at 9:50:18
Link, I have not been at this site long, but I've noticed 99.9% of your post's are in this section.
With a constant that rings loud, anti-meds.I have no problem with that and applaud you for the time/research you've invested towards recovery.
My sole purpose for frequenting this site is... support, education, and sharing positive experiences.
I've peeked at the other board - Psycho-Babble Alternative expecting to see it littered with post's from you, but no, I was surprised to see very little??
I asked myself why someone with a truly negative dislike for pharmaceuticals apparently feels a need to rid the world of all "presciptions"? Almost crusade like??
It's not for me to ask one's intentions, but I certainly can express "my" desire for positive, progressive input. Sure, we all have our extreme down time and submit negative post's that reflect our feelings. But when the pattern is constant, I can't help but feel sorry for the poster.
Best, Rick
Posted by linkadge on November 16, 2008, at 20:28:00
In reply to Re: Anyone Ever Feel More Confused At This Forum? » linkadge, posted by ricker on November 16, 2008, at 16:09:24
Um, where did I say not to take medications?
I still periodically take medications and have no problem with that.
I think your pro-med attitude is probably unfairly interpreting my ballanced view of the beneifits and risks of psychiatric medications.
I am not trying to rid the world of psychiatric medications. I just like to discus some of the false beliefs regarding their safety and/or efficacy.
If you are coming here to look specifically for pro-med discussions you are not really doing yourself any long term justice IMHO.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on November 16, 2008, at 20:31:03
In reply to Re: Anyone Ever Feel More Confused At This Forum? » linkadge, posted by ricker on November 16, 2008, at 16:09:24
If you want to specifically attack some assertion or comment that I have made in my posts go ahead, but please don't arrive at erronious conclusions about that I am saying based on the fact that you are hearing things you may not want to consider.
Linkadge
Posted by ricker on November 16, 2008, at 20:52:33
In reply to Re: Anyone Ever Feel More Confused At This Forum? » ricker, posted by linkadge on November 16, 2008, at 20:31:03
> If you want to specifically attack some assertion or comment that I have made in my posts go ahead, but please don't arrive at erronious conclusions about that I am saying based on the fact that you are hearing things you may not want to consider.
Heavens no, one per board is plenty!! :)
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