![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by PC_Load_Letter on August 6, 2008, at 14:36:25
Hello fellow Comrades in Arms,
Chronic major atypical refractory unipolar depression here (around 20 years now-yikes) with some general anxiety, occasional panic attacks, and sub-clinical OCD thrown in for good measure. I had the VNS implanted around 8 years ago; it finally kicked in around 1.5 years after it was turned on, once the stimulation was raised to a high enough level. Unfortunately, around 6 months after the immediate (from one day to the next) strong response, I lost much, though not all, of the benefit of the VNS.
Since losing the initial great response to the device, I've tried many things, including altering numerous stimulation parameters of the device. This only makes things worse. I've also tried many meds, including several that worked (at least for a while) before the VNS. These either made things immediately much worse (Luvox, desipramine, nortriptyline: it's like they cancel the effect of the device) or pooped out after 2-4 weeks (Nardil, Parnate: these also cause significant worsening of depression after the poop-out, which didn't allow me to continue them). My longest response to any med before VNS was the desipramine, which gave me around a year of good effect.
Let's see...what else...I've tried all the other SSRI's, all the more stimulating tricyclics, clomipramine, Ritalin (immediate worsening of depression), Lamictal, Geodon (immediate and severe tardive dyskinisia), Cymbalta, Remeron, Zyprexa (can't remember if this was in combo with anything), Depakote, Marplan, Emsam, Effexor (actually had a brief response to this a month or so ago, then poop-out, then raised does and experienced severe sedation), Wellbutrin, Effexor, Effexor + Wellbutrin, Provigil, Requip (severe worsening of depression), T3/T4, an incompetent low-dose trial of lithium with no effect that I can remember (my pdoc doesn't think it worth another trial of lithium [or combo], since I'm not bipolar.), Effexor XR (actually had a brief modest response to this a month or so ago, then poop-out, then raised the dose and experienced severe sedation)
I've also tried Ultram (modest 3-4 day response) and an unofficial Vicodin trial (2-3 days of strong response is about all I can get, then poop-out). My doc laughed when I tentatively brought up buprenorphine, so I thought it best not to pursue the matter. It doesn't seem like opioids would be an effective long-term solution for me anyway.
I've also tried numerous vitamins/supplements, including 5-HTP, various B vitamins, SAMe, fish oil (still on this, it helps a bit, I think), vitamin C, years of cognitive/behavioral therapy, steady exercise, healthy eating and sex and rock 'n roll (with a very modest amount of excessive alcohol use and a couple uses of weed as an adult many years ago thrown in for good measure, but no other illegal substance use/abuse). I cannot tolerate alcohol at all these days, as it results in a significant worsening of the depression.
Another factor that might be of interest: though I've never had what could be described as a manic episode, I did have what I, anyway, think may have been brief (2 day-1 week) hypomanic responses to a couple of AD's: (Luvox, first trial) and Effexor + SAMe (non-officially condoned by pdoc combo). I also respond to AD's (if I respond at all, that is) very quickly; within around 1-2 weeks. I've been on several meds and combos longer than that 4 weeks but have never responded to anything after around 2 weeks.
Since my pdoc seems to have run out of ideas, I thought I'd run my conundrum by the brain trust here to see if anyone here can offer any incisive suggestions. I'm thinking Abilify, Deplin, or Imipramine might be worth a try.
I really don't want to do ECT (though I would do both it and DBS, if it comes to that) or even have my amalgams pulled (is there any good evidence to back this up??). I don't want to have to quit my job but am getting very tired of the daily struggle to function.
Thanks in advance for any thoughts/suggestions.
Posted by Phil on August 6, 2008, at 15:01:31
In reply to VNS/Med poop-out and other assorted fun, posted by PC_Load_Letter on August 6, 2008, at 14:36:25
Amitriptyline? Nortriptyline?
Posted by bleauberry on August 6, 2008, at 17:58:28
In reply to VNS/Med poop-out and other assorted fun, posted by PC_Load_Letter on August 6, 2008, at 14:36:25
> I really don't want to do ECT (though I would do both it and DBS, if it comes to that) or even have my amalgams pulled (is there any good evidence to back this up??). I don't want to have to quit my job but am getting very tired of the daily struggle to function.
>
> Thanks in advance for any thoughts/suggestions.So after all your trouble, is $40 worth learning about something that stands a strong likelihood of being at the root of it all? If so, buy the book Amalgam Illness by PHd Andrew Cutler. As long as that mercury vapor continues to absorb into your mouth and lungs everday, headed straight for the nervous system, causing every enzyme in your body to malfunction, on and on...well, I think it would be wise to learn more. Mercury upsets the whole tyrosine-to-catecholamine process, the whole tryptophan-to-serotonin process, clogs up receptor sites, kills cells, depletes vital glutathione, wreaks havoc with the HPA axis, adrenals, thyroids, and gosh, on and on and on. It is a merciless silent slow deceptive poison that does not spare any part of your biochemistry. Some people have genetically strong chelation biochemistry that keeps them safe enough, but many don't have those strong genes and succumb to the power of mercury.
It has only gained a fairly solid body of scientific evidence in the last few years. About 50% of dentists still say amalgams are ok, though they are only repeating the party line and have zero proof. The other 50% will not use it. There are even dentists now who specialize in removing amalgams. I went to one. They know the danger. Heck, they even wear gas masks when doing the work. A profession with one of the highes rates of suicide is...dentists. Coincidence or fluke?
With your long history, I could not begin to suggest meds, except for mailordering Milnacipran from overseas. Though its description sounds similar to meds you know, it is quite different. It even works for people who failed ECT, like me. But I would indeed strongly suggest getting those amalgams out ASAP from a dentist that does it correctly (gas mask, charcoal in your mouth, suction in your mouth, throat dam, face mask). There is only one thing worse than amalgams. That is having them removed carelessly, where you would receive a massive dose.
Mercury loves to make home in your nervous system, brain, adrenal and thyroid glands.
Chelation can be done after they are removed. The book shows the safest method (low dose frequent dose DMSA). Many people improve significantly within a year or two by just having the amalgams removed even without chelation.
I cannot say amalgams are definitely the guilty party here because I am not God. But as a human, I say yes, they are the guilty party. There is no other single greatest threat to your mental and physical health than those shiny things on your teeth. You need not look any further or try to make it any more complicated than it is. It is very clearcut and simple.
Just for grins, type in "amalgam mercury vapor video" and check that out. And get the book. And do a search for the proper dentist. Even while waiting for the book, make the appointment. If you change your mind, you can always cancel. The book will explain things in medical scientific terms, but readable by a layperson, and is loaded with scientific proof and evidence.
Recovery is not rapid. But simply removing the source of poisoning allows the body to begin healing, rather than spending all of its efforts on defense trying to fend off an overpowering foe.
Weird how meds actually start to work like they are supposed to a few months or a year after amalgams are gone.
Posted by Phil on August 6, 2008, at 19:21:46
In reply to Re: VNS/Med poop-out and other assorted fun » PC_Load_Letter, posted by bleauberry on August 6, 2008, at 17:58:28
I gotta disagree with the amalgam toxicity theory, bleauberry. Our dentists would love nothing more than to pull teeth and remove fillings and fill them up with something else, that's how they make their money.
Anyway, an article telling the other side of the story.http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/mercury.html
Posted by twinleaf on August 6, 2008, at 20:47:13
In reply to Re: VNS/Med poop-out and other assorted fun » bleauberry, posted by Phil on August 6, 2008, at 19:21:46
Have you tried rTMS? I have benefitted a lot from that, and also from low-dose lithium (I have unipolar)
Posted by bleauberry on August 6, 2008, at 20:53:00
In reply to Re: VNS/Med poop-out and other assorted fun » bleauberry, posted by Phil on August 6, 2008, at 19:21:46
Sorry. Your call.
Don't worry about disagreeing with me. You are disagreeing with about 50% of dentists, nearly 100% of integrative MD doctors, and 100% of naturopath doctors. They don't make money on extracting amalgams.
I am familiar with the party line of "the other side". They become silenced in a gentleman's debate pretty quickly.
Just thought in your condition you would be eager to search avenues and insure that no stone was left unturned.
If someone wants to believe that leaving the second most toxic substance to the nervous system in their mouth is harmless, I have lost my purpose in being in this thread.
I resisted the idea, exactly as you, for about 2 years after being lab diagnosed with excessive mercury and lead. So that is par for the course. Normal defensive behavior. Two years of further deterioration led me to failed ECT and then to a total stranger on a street who told me their story of illness and recovery concerning amalgams. I hadn't even thought of it in 2 years. It was actually a moment where I realized my prayers to God were answered. I asked all along what I could put in my mouth for healing...supplements, herbs, medicines. It was not a supplement, herb, or medicine I could put in my mouth that I needed. It was what I had to get out of my mouth.
At the least, do a search on Amalgam Illness book. I believe there are some excerpts floating around. Do a search on Andrew Cutler.
Best wishes to you my friend.
> I gotta disagree with the amalgam toxicity theory, bleauberry. Our dentists would love nothing more than to pull teeth and remove fillings and fill them up with something else, that's how they make their money.
> Anyway, an article telling the other side of the story.
>
> http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/mercury.html
Posted by SLS on August 7, 2008, at 2:39:45
In reply to Re: VNS/Med poop-out and other assorted fun » PC_Load_Letter, posted by bleauberry on August 6, 2008, at 17:58:28
> I cannot say amalgams are definitely the guilty party here because I am not God.
Crap. You had me convinced there for a while.
:-)
- Scott
Posted by Phil on August 7, 2008, at 10:52:49
In reply to Re: VNS/Med poop-out and other assorted fun » Phil, posted by bleauberry on August 6, 2008, at 20:53:00
bleauberry, So you're off of meds now?
Posted by bleauberry on August 7, 2008, at 20:15:59
In reply to Re: VNS/Med poop-out and other assorted fun » bleauberry, posted by Phil on August 7, 2008, at 10:52:49
> bleauberry, So you're off of meds now?
Hi Phil. Actually no, always trying something or the other. Supplements, meds, herbs, whatever. Currently looking at Milnacipran. Trying to figure out how to get around some tough side effects I get from it. As far as effectiveness, it is a good one. I have heard of two other people who failed ECT but responded to Milnacipran.
Strange, but the best responses I've had weren't psych drugs at all.
One was DMSA, a mercury and lead chelator. About a week into daily 4-hour dosing of low doses, I was feeling darn good. People even commented I looked alive and had color in my face. DMSA is not meant to be taken continuously, so that round was already overdue to be ended.
Another was Doxycycline, an antiobiotic. After two weeks of feeling a little more depressed on it, with loud ringing in the ears, I had one day of absolute pure remission. Best I've felt in probably 20 years. Seeing my doctor in a couple weeks and we are going to talk about that. He says a couple of his patients have improved remarkably on antibiotics indicating some hidden pathogen causing nervous system inflammation. He said my one-day-wonder may have been a hint of things to come with continued treatment.
And another was hydrocortisone 2.5mg daily, which was to treat my hypoadrenalism, which is very common with amalgams. Actually my doc said when psych meds don't work, the adrenals need support. That too was a one-day wonder, but my doc says patients improve in short spurts over a long period where eventually those good days outnumber the bad. Healing post-mercury is definite, but not rapid.
The immune system is weakened under the influence of low level chronic longterm exposure to mercury or lead, due to its depletion of glutathione, so maybe the antibiotic was giving me a boost in that regard.
Found this quote and found it interesting:
"I don't feel comfortable using a substance designated by the Environmental Protection Agency to be a waste disposal hazard. I can't throw it in the trash, bury it in the ground, or put it in a landfill, but they say it is OK to put it in people's mouths. That doesn't make sense." - Richard. Fischer, D.D.S.
In fact I asked my dentist what they do with the discarded amalgams or teeth extracted with amalgams in them. They are wrapped in a special hazards bag and shipped to a hazardous waste dump.
I was also puzzled to discover amalgams were never approved by the FDA. The history behind how amalgams gently slipped into mainstream practice and assumed safe is fascinating.
Posted by PC_Load_Letter on August 7, 2008, at 20:25:47
In reply to Re: VNS/Med poop-out and other assorted fun, posted by Phil on August 6, 2008, at 15:01:31
> Amitriptyline? Nortriptyline?
I just tried nortriptyline and the depression worsened significantly within two days. I've never tried amitriptyline; I think it would be too sedating. Thanks.
Posted by PC_Load_Letter on August 7, 2008, at 20:34:57
In reply to Re: VNS/Med poop-out and other assorted fun, posted by twinleaf on August 6, 2008, at 20:47:13
> Have you tried rTMS? I have benefitted a lot from that, and also from low-dose lithium (I have unipolar)
I would like to try the lithium again, if I can convince my pdoc.
He claims that the results from rTMS trials have been unimpressive. It's still not approved yet, correct? In any case, it's my understanding that I would not be accepted for rTMS treatment because of the metal leads in my neck from the VNS. This seems a bit silly to me, since the rTMS only penetrates a fraction of an inch down. I would definitely try it, if it became available in my area and I was accepted for treatment. I'm glad to hear you responded to the rTMS and lithium. Thank for the feedback.
Posted by PC_Load_Letter on August 7, 2008, at 20:44:00
In reply to Re: VNS/Med poop-out and other assorted fun » PC_Load_Letter, posted by bleauberry on August 6, 2008, at 17:58:28
> > I really don't want to do ECT (though I would do both it and DBS, if it comes to that) or even have my amalgams pulled (is there any good evidence to back this up??). I don't want to have to quit my job but am getting very tired of the daily struggle to function.
> >
> > Thanks in advance for any thoughts/suggestions.
>
> So after all your trouble, is $40 worth learning about something that stands a strong likelihood of being at the root of it all? If so, buy the book Amalgam Illness by PHd Andrew Cutler. As long as that mercury vapor continues to absorb into your mouth and lungs everday, headed straight for the nervous system, causing every enzyme in your body to malfunction, on and on...well, I think it would be wise to learn more. Mercury upsets the whole tyrosine-to-catecholamine process, the whole tryptophan-to-serotonin process, clogs up receptor sites, kills cells, depletes vital glutathione, wreaks havoc with the HPA axis, adrenals, thyroids, and gosh, on and on and on. It is a merciless silent slow deceptive poison that does not spare any part of your biochemistry. Some people have genetically strong chelation biochemistry that keeps them safe enough, but many don't have those strong genes and succumb to the power of mercury.
>
> It has only gained a fairly solid body of scientific evidence in the last few years. About 50% of dentists still say amalgams are ok, though they are only repeating the party line and have zero proof. The other 50% will not use it. There are even dentists now who specialize in removing amalgams. I went to one. They know the danger. Heck, they even wear gas masks when doing the work. A profession with one of the highes rates of suicide is...dentists. Coincidence or fluke?
>
> With your long history, I could not begin to suggest meds, except for mailordering Milnacipran from overseas. Though its description sounds similar to meds you know, it is quite different. It even works for people who failed ECT, like me. But I would indeed strongly suggest getting those amalgams out ASAP from a dentist that does it correctly (gas mask, charcoal in your mouth, suction in your mouth, throat dam, face mask). There is only one thing worse than amalgams. That is having them removed carelessly, where you would receive a massive dose.
>
> Mercury loves to make home in your nervous system, brain, adrenal and thyroid glands.
>
> Chelation can be done after they are removed. The book shows the safest method (low dose frequent dose DMSA). Many people improve significantly within a year or two by just having the amalgams removed even without chelation.
>
> I cannot say amalgams are definitely the guilty party here because I am not God. But as a human, I say yes, they are the guilty party. There is no other single greatest threat to your mental and physical health than those shiny things on your teeth. You need not look any further or try to make it any more complicated than it is. It is very clearcut and simple.
>
> Just for grins, type in "amalgam mercury vapor video" and check that out. And get the book. And do a search for the proper dentist. Even while waiting for the book, make the appointment. If you change your mind, you can always cancel. The book will explain things in medical scientific terms, but readable by a layperson, and is loaded with scientific proof and evidence.
>
> Recovery is not rapid. But simply removing the source of poisoning allows the body to begin healing, rather than spending all of its efforts on defense trying to fend off an overpowering foe.
>
> Weird how meds actually start to work like they are supposed to a few months or a year after amalgams are gone.
>
>
>
>
Thanks for your feedback. I will look further into this, since at this point I am willing to consider just about anything, but I would really like to have the high levels of mercury confirmed by a blood test before doing something like this. My uncle suffers from debilitating migraines and had all his amalgams removed some years ago. Result: no improvement at all in his condition.
Posted by chiron on August 8, 2008, at 0:08:50
In reply to Re: VNS/Med poop-out and other assorted fun, posted by twinleaf on August 6, 2008, at 20:47:13
> Have you tried rTMS? I have benefitted a lot from that, and also from low-dose lithium (I have unipolar)
twinleaf,
how long have you had rTMS? I would love to try it, but I'm in the US. I looked at all the trial locations but they are not anywhere nearby. I actually was thinking about moving somewhere to try it because I'm about ready to give up. I had ect a couple of years ago & felt better than I have in my whole life. It didn't last, but it got me out of a very deep hole (ect trials after that weren't as helpful)
Posted by twinleaf on August 8, 2008, at 9:34:52
In reply to Re: VNS/Med poop-out and other assorted fun » twinleaf, posted by chiron on August 8, 2008, at 0:08:50
I have gone to Dr. Mark Hutto in Atlanta for "off-label" treatment with TMS for the past five years. The first time, in 2003, I had a course of 15 treatments over a three-week period. It resulted in a complete remission which lasted about 8 weeks, with a slow return to severe depression over the next two months. I have since returned to Atlanta ten times; I usually have between four and eight treatments (two a day to save time) in order to get back to a depression-free state. If TMS works, which it apparently does about half the time, it's a great treatment. It's free of side-effects. The only short-coming is that most people (like me) have to keep on having the treatments. Neuronetics, who make the device, say that they expect FDA approval within a few months. I have lined up a psychiatrist in my home town. He has taken a course in how to administer TMS, and has signed up for a machine. So, soon, I hope, I won't have to keep flying to Atlanta. I would think that it will be available to you where you live soon. You could inquire of your pdoc, the way I did. Mine really surprised me when I brought it up, saying, "I've just been waiting for someone to come in and show an interest in it".
Good luck! I hope you are one of the people it works for.
There is one other doctor who gives it off-label: Dr. Steven Best, outside of chicago.
Posted by bleauberry on August 8, 2008, at 20:55:18
In reply to Re: VNS/Med poop-out and other assorted fun, posted by PC_Load_Letter on August 7, 2008, at 20:44:00
> Thanks for your feedback. I will look further into this, since at this point I am willing to consider just about anything, but I would really like to have the high levels of mercury confirmed by a blood test before doing something like this. My uncle suffers from debilitating migraines and had all his amalgams removed some years ago. Result: no improvement at all in his condition.
I'll try to keep it short, but here is a preliminary overview that might help.
The mercury vapor rising from amalgams presents a low level but chronic exposure. For genetically susceptible people, the body slowly weakens over years and loses the ability to excrete it. Many chronic diseases such as alzheimers, dementia, arthritis, chronic fatigue, fibromylagia, migraines, food/chemical sensitivites, psychiatric, and tons more can have mercury at the cause. But these are all blamed on other things, aging, genetics, whatever. Not to say all cases are caused by mercury, but that it has to be suspect when there have been years of chronic exposure. In figuring out the cause of a disease, there is likely none other than stands out. Can you think of anything else that would cause your condition? Think about it. Mercury makes total sense. Unless you can think of something better, it has to be at the top of the list, if for no other reason, there is nothing else.
Blood testing will show a tiny bit of mercury from your current exposure, but not enough to concern anyone. Again, it is a low level exposure. Chronic is the key word. It is 24/7. The better test is hair samples. Hair stores our metals and minerals. The mercury in your blood right now is what you've been exposed to in the last 72 hours, but all the other mercury before that is stored in cells, brain, glands, and fatty tissues, where it will not show up on a blood test. Someone can test perfectly clean and yet be highly toxic. Mercury finds a home and binds there tightly for the remainder of its halflife, which is 30 years. That's why diseases do not necessarily always go away when amalgams are removed. The prior mercury is still there. Removing amalgams puts a stop to it getting worse. Chelating after amalgam removal gets the mercury out. Mercury toxicity from amalgams is actually a form of accelerated death, with one disease after another popping up over time.
A Nurse Practioner licensed in Psychiatry was treating me. It wasn't going well. Too many paradoxical reactions to meds, like you. She asked to look in my mouth. I'm like, what, I have depression and you want to look in my mouth? What the heck? She ordered a lab hair sample test. It came back showing elevated mercury, lead, and cadmium. Mercury from amalgams, lead from my old water pipes, and cadmium from cigarettes. I poo-poo'ed the whole thing and said it was ridiculous. Lots of people have amalgams. It's legal. It has to be safe. My doc is crazy. Right?
So 2 years later I still have amalgams and get another hair test. This time, zero mercury, zero lead, zero anything...no magnesium, zinc, manganese, copper, nothing. Zip. Then I discovered that is exactly what mercury does...it displaces other minerals and metals from their natural biological homes, including mercury itself. No wonder I felt so bad. Even though I had good nutrition, none of it was doing any good. Mercury was hogging all the docking sites where the nutrition was supposed to go and do work. Two years prior I was toxic, but not so toxic that all the metals and minerals were being blocked from their natural transport to hair and everywhere else.
Reading hair samples is tricky. There are telltale patterns that mercury does in hair. Hair can show very little mercury, and yet the patient is highly toxic. This can be seen by how it displaces the other metals. So while we look at mercury in hair, we are actually more interested in the other vital good minerals. Their patterns...what is real high, what is real low, etc, tells the story. When they are all over the map, or completely absent as in my case, that is diagnositc of mercury toxicity with 98.5% accuracy.
After amalgams are removed for a couple weeks, you can do a urine challenge test. Collect urine for 6 hours, then take a large dose of the mercury chelator DMSA and collect urine for another 6 hours. A lab compares the mercury in both samples. The second sample almost always has a very high amount of mercury in it, as DMSA pulled that tightly bound mercury out of some tissues into urine. I had this done, and my mercury excretion increased 500%. I was shocked. In hindsight, it is not a good idea. DMSA halflife is 4 hours, so as it wears off, the mercury that hasn't yet made it to the bladder gets deposited somewhere else. I felt worse for a month after.
Proper chelation is low dose DMSA every 4 hours around the clock. That prevents redistribution. Some people do the challenge test safe by taking DMSA every 4 hours for several days, then take a large dose, collect the urine, and continue with low doses. That gets a good sample and prevents much of the redistribution after the one large dose.
In all sincerity, it is not needed to get any tests. If someone has chronic disease symptoms that puzzle doctors, especially psychiatric or neuromuscular, and they've had amalgams for years, that alone is about 95% diagnostic without any tests.
Hope this helps.
Posted by bleauberry on August 8, 2008, at 21:31:44
In reply to VNS/Med poop-out and other assorted fun, posted by PC_Load_Letter on August 6, 2008, at 14:36:25
Ok, so we know about mercury and it is highly suspect. But even according to "the" book Amalgam Illness, it is crucial to take meds and supplements that help you feel better so you can get on with life while going through the processes of removing amalgams, healing and chelating. You've been trying to do that with valiant effort. In this post I wanted to address what you were looking for in the first place...meds. And supplements.
For meds, there isn't much left in the USA. But there is a whole world out there. Japan's best antidepressant is not even known in the USA, yet in my opinion blows FDA meds in the weeds. Go figure. Its name is Milancipran, or Ixel.
Why do I say that? Well, when did you ever hear of someone who failed ECT after many drugs, and then got much better on Prozac? Or any other common med? Probably never. I've seen two accounts of such histories that improved remarkably with Ixel, and now me, I am the third. Imagine failing dozens of drugs, then failing ECT, mailordering a foreign med, and getting better within days of starting it. Unreal. For those of us really sick and at the end of the line with FDA meds, hey, the USA is pretty small compared to the rest of the world. And while USA prides itself on being a leader, believe me, other unsuspecting countries are way ahead in certain areas of research. So, the med I am suggesting is Milnacipran. Other tough cases right here at pbabble have gone well with it when just about nothing else did.
It looks on paper similar to Nortriptyline...serotonin and norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor, except without all the TCA side effects. But believe me, it is nothing like Nortriptyline. No comparison whatsoever. Like you, I felt horrible on Nortriptyline in just a few days.
Supplements:
Selenium: Neutralizes the damage of mercury, binds up mercury molecules. Should take medium to high doses daily.
Zinc: Mercury causes an accumulation of copper, which in turn causes profound untreatable psychiatric problems. Excess copper is bad news. Zinc causes copper to be excreted and brings levels down to normal in a couple months.
Other minerals: They are all displaced by mercury, so taking a supplement with them is helpful. Start with very low doses and work up. Being sensitive, try them one at a time. One of the most important is Magnesium. I can't tolerate it because it makes me feel real bad. I get enough in my choice of foods. But for most people, who can tolerate it, it is a good idea.
Vitamin C, Vitamin E: Take healthy doses of these. Mercury causes an intense amount of oxidative damage. In addition to C and E, eat as many antioxidant foods you can, which is mostly berries, grapes, all fruits, lots of raw veggies. And lots of purified clean water.
Order an Aquasana water filter to put on your kitchen faucet for drinking, coffee, cooking.
Be suspect of gluten (found in wheat, barley, rye). Many amalgam sufferers become intolerant of gluten, due to the damage mercury does to the cilia in the intestines. I have zero family history of gluten intolerance, and yet was lab diagnosed with it a year ago. All my pizza, breads, donuts, cereals, etc, are now made of rice, corn, sourghum, tapioca, and potato flours instead of wheat. A reaction to gluten feels like depression. Try avoiding it strictly for 2 weeks and see if there is a difference.
If you can tolerate B vitamins, those are a good idea. As tolerated. No need to go overboard. Low to medium doses are fine. Same with fish oil, flax oil, borage oil. A little bit is fine for helping the body deal with mercury. Organic free-range eggs, avocados, and walnuts are good sources of good oils too.
The heavy guns though should be Milnacipran, selenium, zinc; and of course amalgam removal to slam the door on this thing getting any worse.
Posted by bleauberry on August 8, 2008, at 21:54:58
In reply to VNS/Med poop-out and other assorted fun, posted by PC_Load_Letter on August 6, 2008, at 14:36:25
Almost all sufferers of amalgams have adrenal disorders. That can be easily measured in a lab test called Adrenal Stress Index Test. It's even available online as a home test, or at integrative MDs and naturopath doctors. They use it all the time. It measures saliva cortisol in 4 samples throughout a day. The state of adrenal function is clearly shown on a graph after the lab analyzes the samples.
The PHd author of Amalgam Illness says that when antidepressants are not working or giving paradoxical reactions, the adrenals need support. That means either licorice, adrenal cortex extract, or in most cases low doses of physiological replacement hydrocortisone, just enough to replace what is missing. Not the high dangerous therapeutic doses used to treat diseases
There are forums at Yahoo specifically for chelation patients post-amalgams and probably the one single thing that helps them all the most is some sort of adrenal support.My basic message to you in all I have written is:
There is a cause of your disease and it is treatable...but it almost surely involves looking outside the limited world of psychiatry. After all your failures in psychiatry, it makes sense to reassess the diagnosis. For example, maybe the diagnosis is mercury toxicity, and the paradoxical resistant depression is the result, but not the disease. Or a hidden Lyme disease. Or some other hidden pathogen where a month on an antibiotic would be a good test to see if there is any improvement. When it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it is probably mercury.You know what capital letters mean in an internet message? They signify screaming. If I went back and rewrote everything, I would probably capitalize much of it. :-)
When the correct disease is treated, symptoms go away.
Posted by manic666 on August 12, 2008, at 12:33:20
In reply to Re: VNS/Med poop-out and other assorted fun » twinleaf, posted by chiron on August 8, 2008, at 0:08:50
/uck me your like i am a space cowboy i love you buddy your as crazy as me, i had my back teeth out only to find it was nuralger, sorry carnt spell it. but it was down to anxiety, why didnt the nob dentists no that. meds are mainly s/it.im like you i have tried most. when we somtimes crack an have a bender, look at normal people they seem dull,same borring lifes. mabey we have a gift. us flying like kites or at the bottom of the deepest hole. steven fry a well known english seleb an 2 bipolar wont no take meds as he dont want a borring life us english are grazy nuts manic666
This is the end of the thread.
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