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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Quintal on May 22, 2008, at 16:38:40
Click on the teleport link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20080326/msgs/830543.htmlMy pdoc didn't give me an antidepressant today, so I decided to use my own initative. This has been going on since February and the way things are going I wonn't get to see another pdoc until August, so why not?
I took it once when I was 16, but didn't notice a great deal (not that I took it for very long). Any comments/experiences welcome.
Q
Posted by bulldog2 on May 22, 2008, at 16:48:24
In reply to Started St. John's Wort 500mg *Flare*, posted by Quintal on May 22, 2008, at 16:38:40
> Click on the teleport link:
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20080326/msgs/830543.html
>
> My pdoc didn't give me an antidepressant today, so I decided to use my own initative. This has been going on since February and the way things are going I wonn't get to see another pdoc until August, so why not?
>
> I took it once when I was 16, but didn't notice a great deal (not that I took it for very long). Any comments/experiences welcome.
>
> QHave you given up on the lamictal? There have been studies that matched the efficacy of low dose imipramine with st. John's Wort. It can speed up the elimination of other meds you may be taking. Also there has been some link with long term use of sjw with cataracts. If you go with sjw make sure you get one standardized for hyperforin at least 3%.
Posted by Quintal on May 22, 2008, at 17:47:32
In reply to Re: Started St. John's Wort 500mg *Flare*, posted by bulldog2 on May 22, 2008, at 16:48:24
I'm still taking 100mg Lamictal. It works well as a mood stabilizer at that dose, and it brightens my mood, but doesn't improve my energy and motivation. Maybe St. John's Wort isn't all that great for energy or motivation either, but I'll give it a go. I'm starting to think Rhodiola would have been a better choice, but I have some in my cupboard. Maybe if I combine the two?
I was hoping it might help the conversion of codeine into morphine, with its enzyme inducing thing. Apparently it speeds up the elimination of ibuprofen and can cause estrogenic side effects like breast enlargement with agnus catsus. Will have to be on the lookout for that. I haven't checked it with Rhodiola.
Q
Posted by bulldog2 on May 22, 2008, at 18:39:50
In reply to Re: Started St. John's Wort 500mg *Flare*, posted by Quintal on May 22, 2008, at 17:47:32
> I'm still taking 100mg Lamictal. It works well as a mood stabilizer at that dose, and it brightens my mood, but doesn't improve my energy and motivation. Maybe St. John's Wort isn't all that great for energy or motivation either, but I'll give it a go. I'm starting to think Rhodiola would have been a better choice, but I have some in my cupboard. Maybe if I combine the two?
>
> I was hoping it might help the conversion of codeine into morphine, with its enzyme inducing thing. Apparently it speeds up the elimination of ibuprofen and can cause estrogenic side effects like breast enlargement with agnus catsus. Will have to be on the lookout for that. I haven't checked it with Rhodiola.
>
> QI think norepinephrine would be an excellent addition. Maybe something like ixel which is supposed to be motivating. Or low dose selegiline with a dash of pea might be a good addition.
the problem with sjw is it speeds up the metabolism of many drugs and lowers their levels in your system.
Don't think sjw will do much.
Posted by bleauberry on May 22, 2008, at 20:02:51
In reply to Started St. John's Wort 500mg *Flare*, posted by Quintal on May 22, 2008, at 16:38:40
Here is some info on SJW compiled from hundreds of posts at sjwinfo.org.
Some people respond badly to high hyperforin brands, while others love them. Some people do best with the proven brands (Kira, Perika), while others do much better with el-cheapo brands which are usually low hyperforin. Trying 2 or 3 brands is recommended if the first brand fails.
Some people respond very quickly, while a good many people say it took 8 weeks to 12 weeks to kick in.
Some people do best on low doses (150mg-300mg), much worse on higher doses, most people seem to like doses in the 600mg-900mg range, and once in a while someone takes a much higher dose with good effect.
The time of day it is dosed, or whether it is taken all at once or in multiple doses, somehow has an effect on how it works. Some people swear by evening dosing after daytime dosing was doing nothing, or vica versa. Some people do best taking it all at once at night, some all at once in morning, and some spread out through the day. If things aren't working out right, experimentation is recommended.
If it poops out, most people can regain the effect by...lowering the dose. Really.
How it will interact with the other meds is anyone's guess. When I took it with prozac and zyprexa, it ended up decreasing prozac levels and increasing zyprexa levels. It mostly speeds up CYP3A4, but also slows down a different one.
So there ya go.
Honestly, the best AD response I ever got was on an el cheapo brand, second best was Kira, and a distant 3rd place was pharmaceuticals. Unfortunately for me SJW worked awesome only for a couple weeks and then I just got numb like SSRIs do. That was not common, but of course it had to happen to me.
Posted by Phillipa on May 22, 2008, at 21:07:10
In reply to Re: Started St. John's Wort 500mg *Flare*, posted by bleauberry on May 22, 2008, at 20:02:51
Seriously St John's Wart really work? Love Phillipa
Posted by Quintal on May 23, 2008, at 8:16:08
In reply to Re: Started St. John's Wort 500mg *Flare*, posted by bulldog2 on May 22, 2008, at 18:39:50
Something noradrenergic is exactly what I'm looking for. I was going to ask for lofepramine, but he said he didn't want to tinker with my lamotrigine or amisulpride, so I guessed starting an antidepressant was out of the question. I have ordered some bupropion from an online pharmacy, so hopefully that will help if and when it comes. I ran all the drugs I'm taking through an interaction checker and here are the results. Unfortunately amisulpride isn't recognized by the system.
__________________________________________________3 potential interactions were found for the drugs you selected.
You searched for interactions between the following drugs and herbs:
* Acetaminophen
* Agnus Castus
* Cetirizine
* Codeine Tablets
* Ibuprofen
* Lamotrigine
* St. John's WortAdd or Delete Drugs
Start Over with a New List of Drugs
(Note: Herbal products are not subject to review or approval from the FDA. Not all of the risks, side effects, or interactions associated with the use of herbal products have been studied. Not all drug interactions are known or reported in the literature, and new drug interactions are continually being reported. This information is provided only for your education and for you to discuss with your personal healthcare provider. )
IBUPROFEN may interact with ST. JOHN'S WORT
Although the exact cause of this interaction is unknown, St. John?s wort can decrease the time ibuprofen stays in the body. Based on currently available evidence, no special precautions are needed if ibuprofen and St. John?s wort are taken together. You may want to ask your healthcare provider about this potential interaction if you think you are having problems.
This interaction is poorly documented and is considered minor in severity.
Last Updated: March 1908
LAMOTRIGINE may interact with ACETAMINOPHEN
Although the cause of this potential interaction is not clearly understood, acetaminophen may decrease blood levels of lamotrigine. This could make lamotrigine less effective. Based on information from one study involving a small number of healthy people who took these drugs together, using no more than the recommended dose of acetaminophen every day for a short period of time (I.e., less than 2 weeks) does not appear to have an effect on a dose of lamotrigine. However, this potential interaction may be more likely to occur when acetaminophen is taken on a daily basis for a long period of time. If these drugs are used together, your doctor may want to monitor you to make sure that you are not experiencing problems and adjust the dose of lamotrigine if needed. You may want to ask your healthcare provider about this potential interaction if you think you are having problems.
This interaction is poorly documented and is considered moderate in severity.
Last Updated: June 2004
CHASTE TREE (in Agnus Castus) may interact with ST. JOHN'S WORT
Both chaste tree berries and St. John's wort contain phytoestrogens, plant chemicals which may act like the hormone estrogen in the body. If they are taken at the same time, the risk of estrogenic effects, such as appetite changes, bloating, breast swelling or tenderness, general swelling, nausea, and weight gain may increase. In general, chaste tree berries and St. John's wort should not be taken at the same time. Individuals who decide to use both together should be alert for estrogen side effects. If problems occur, chaste tree berries, St. John's wort, or both may need to be reduced or stopped. You may want to ask your healthcare provider about this potential interaction if you think you are having problems.
This interaction is well-documented and is considered minor in severity.
Last Updated: February 2006
__________________________________________________Q
Posted by llurpsienoodle on May 23, 2008, at 12:44:29
In reply to Re: Started St. John's Wort 500mg *Flare* » bulldog2, posted by Quintal on May 23, 2008, at 8:16:08
Hi Q,
I took SJW for about 2 weeks and developed a very itchy rash. Then I stopped.I hope the bupropion arrives soon. I noticed a difference within a few days of starting it. Like you, I was somewhat depressed, as manifest by apathy, etc. The wellbutrin launched me into a pleasant hypomania, which I believe is wearing off. pity.
-Ll
Posted by bulldog2 on May 23, 2008, at 14:57:16
In reply to Re: Started St. John's Wort 500mg *Flare* » bulldog2, posted by Quintal on May 23, 2008, at 8:16:08
> Something noradrenergic is exactly what I'm looking for. I was going to ask for lofepramine, but he said he didn't want to tinker with my lamotrigine or amisulpride, so I guessed starting an antidepressant was out of the question. I have ordered some bupropion from an online pharmacy, so hopefully that will help if and when it comes. I ran all the drugs I'm taking through an interaction checker and here are the results. Unfortunately amisulpride isn't recognized by the system.
> __________________________________________________
>
> 3 potential interactions were found for the drugs you selected.
>
> You searched for interactions between the following drugs and herbs:
>
> * Acetaminophen
> * Agnus Castus
> * Cetirizine
> * Codeine Tablets
> * Ibuprofen
> * Lamotrigine
> * St. John's Wort
>
> Add or Delete Drugs
>
> Start Over with a New List of Drugs
>
> (Note: Herbal products are not subject to review or approval from the FDA. Not all of the risks, side effects, or interactions associated with the use of herbal products have been studied. Not all drug interactions are known or reported in the literature, and new drug interactions are continually being reported. This information is provided only for your education and for you to discuss with your personal healthcare provider. )
>
> IBUPROFEN may interact with ST. JOHN'S WORT
>
> Although the exact cause of this interaction is unknown, St. John?s wort can decrease the time ibuprofen stays in the body. Based on currently available evidence, no special precautions are needed if ibuprofen and St. John?s wort are taken together. You may want to ask your healthcare provider about this potential interaction if you think you are having problems.
>
> This interaction is poorly documented and is considered minor in severity.
>
> Last Updated: March 1908
>
> LAMOTRIGINE may interact with ACETAMINOPHEN
>
> Although the cause of this potential interaction is not clearly understood, acetaminophen may decrease blood levels of lamotrigine. This could make lamotrigine less effective. Based on information from one study involving a small number of healthy people who took these drugs together, using no more than the recommended dose of acetaminophen every day for a short period of time (I.e., less than 2 weeks) does not appear to have an effect on a dose of lamotrigine. However, this potential interaction may be more likely to occur when acetaminophen is taken on a daily basis for a long period of time. If these drugs are used together, your doctor may want to monitor you to make sure that you are not experiencing problems and adjust the dose of lamotrigine if needed. You may want to ask your healthcare provider about this potential interaction if you think you are having problems.
>
> This interaction is poorly documented and is considered moderate in severity.
>
> Last Updated: June 2004
>
> CHASTE TREE (in Agnus Castus) may interact with ST. JOHN'S WORT
>
> Both chaste tree berries and St. John's wort contain phytoestrogens, plant chemicals which may act like the hormone estrogen in the body. If they are taken at the same time, the risk of estrogenic effects, such as appetite changes, bloating, breast swelling or tenderness, general swelling, nausea, and weight gain may increase. In general, chaste tree berries and St. John's wort should not be taken at the same time. Individuals who decide to use both together should be alert for estrogen side effects. If problems occur, chaste tree berries, St. John's wort, or both may need to be reduced or stopped. You may want to ask your healthcare provider about this potential interaction if you think you are having problems.
>
> This interaction is well-documented and is considered minor in severity.
>
> Last Updated: February 2006
> __________________________________________________
>
> QI've tried pharmaceutical grade sjw for a couple months and found it weak.
Wellbutrin is a good choice and if that doesn't work I've heard good things about Ixel.
Posted by Kath on May 23, 2008, at 21:40:10
In reply to Started St. John's Wort 500mg *Flare*, posted by Quintal on May 22, 2008, at 16:38:40
Hi Quintal
5HTP & St. John's Wort helped me through this past winter.
It took a while to fully kick in. If you want exact amounts, etc just ask me.
luv, Kath
Posted by Kath on May 23, 2008, at 21:41:44
In reply to Re: Started St. John's Wort 500mg *Flare*, posted by Quintal on May 22, 2008, at 17:47:32
Posted by Kath on May 23, 2008, at 21:43:59
In reply to Re: Started St. John's Wort 500mg *Flare* » bleauberry, posted by Phillipa on May 22, 2008, at 21:07:10
It was a major part of what got me through last winter!!
Kath
Posted by Kath on May 23, 2008, at 21:45:45
In reply to Re: Started St. John's Wort 500mg *Flare* » bulldog2, posted by Quintal on May 23, 2008, at 8:16:08
Jeeeeeeeeez - I didn't look into ANYthing. Yikes. But it worked & nothing terrible happened (that I'm aware of!!)
Kath
Posted by Quintal on May 24, 2008, at 10:08:20
In reply to Re: Started St. John's Wort 500mg *Flare* » Quintal, posted by Kath on May 23, 2008, at 21:45:45
I decided to stop taking it for now. It seeed to be making me angry and irritable. I think this happened the last time I tried it.
Q
Posted by Kath on May 24, 2008, at 12:49:00
In reply to Re: Started St. John's Wort 500mg *Flare*, posted by Quintal on May 24, 2008, at 10:08:20
good choice then - angry & irritable is NOT what we want!! (((((((((you))))))))))
luv, Kath
Posted by bleauberry on May 24, 2008, at 13:04:27
In reply to Re: Started St. John's Wort 500mg *Flare* » bulldog2, posted by Quintal on May 23, 2008, at 8:16:08
If you are ordering wellbutrin from online pharmacy, and looking for a good noradrenergic med, my two cents says milnacipran would be a much better bet.
Posted by Quintal on May 24, 2008, at 14:45:54
In reply to Re: Started St. John's Wort 500mg *Flare* » Quintal, posted by bleauberry on May 24, 2008, at 13:04:27
Why is milnacipran better than bupropion? I didn't respond too well to Effexor or reboxetine. I tried it once before, and it was okay, but still it's a bit of a shot in the dark.
Q
Posted by llurpsienoodle on May 24, 2008, at 14:52:17
In reply to Re: Started St. John's Wort 500mg *Flare* » bleauberry, posted by Quintal on May 24, 2008, at 14:45:54
Hi Q,
I'm so sorry that the SJW didn't work out for you. Here's all my fingers and toes crossed that the bupropion provides you some quick reliefXXXXXXXXXX
(is that 10 crosses?)
well, whatever. That's the best my feeble mind can come up with. I was feeling super bitchy yesterday and depressed too, and I feel good today. I just added Evening Primrose Oil to my regimen, so maybe that's the thing that's helping. Or it could be the fish oil that kicked in finally. (can fish kick?)
Feel better soon--
-Ll
Posted by bulldog2 on May 24, 2008, at 19:36:44
In reply to Re: Started St. John's Wort 500mg *Flare* » bleauberry, posted by Quintal on May 24, 2008, at 14:45:54
> Why is milnacipran better than bupropion? I didn't respond too well to Effexor or reboxetine. I tried it once before, and it was okay, but still it's a bit of a shot in the dark.
>
> QI don't think one can say any ad is better than another. Depends on brain chemistry in the end. ATM lady liked ixel better than wellbutrin because she still needed a little shot of serotonin to balance out ne. About a 3 to 1 ne to se ratio. I guess it's one of those try and see which one works the best.
This is the end of the thread.
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