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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by tessie on February 25, 2008, at 7:16:11
Hi my name is Tessie. I am after and am open to advice and sugestions on how I should attempt to rid/Wean/Tapper myself off this drug called dizepam (Valium).
I have tried already once before unsucessfully and now I am ready to do it for good. It was prescibed to me by a psychiatrist, for the reason of a temporary substitute for the drug I used to take called Serizon that was in the process of being taken of the market a few years ago. I was supossed to take this only for a short time until another drug was found to be more suitable than the various ones I tried that were not suited to me at all. This never happened. I never found that correct drug for coping with my Anxiety/Depression, yet I still needed to sleep at night hence taking Diazepam. I have now been on Diazepam for approximetely five years. Can anybody shine some light on this subject for me, it would be very appretiated. Regards Tessie
Posted by X-ray on February 25, 2008, at 14:26:47
In reply to Weaning off Diazepam, posted by tessie on February 25, 2008, at 7:16:11
Hello Tessie,
I think that Elavil might be worth a try.
This drug will help you sleep.My combo is Elavil (50 mg in the evening) and Buspar (20 mg + 20 mg in the daytime).
Best of Luck,
X-ray
Posted by Abby Cunningham on February 25, 2008, at 15:44:20
In reply to Weaning off Diazepam, posted by tessie on February 25, 2008, at 7:16:11
Hi Tessie,
Welcome to the board. I see you are weaning off Valium (diazepam). Unfortunately there is not much out there to help except more psych drugs that are also addictive and need to be tapered down.This thread is going to be moved by Dr. Bob to the withdrawal board. There are some remedies (natural) that can help, such as chamomile tea, etc. Other than that, go here for much information by a expert Dr. Heather Ashton:
www.benzo.org.uk
Abby
Posted by dbc on February 25, 2008, at 17:46:09
In reply to Re: Weaning off Diazepam » tessie, posted by Abby Cunningham on February 25, 2008, at 15:44:20
I think the main issue for us to help is we need to know exactly how much valium you're taking. I would also disregard most of the content of www.benzo.org.uk its pretty inflammatory, innacurate and in general is scare mongering.
Posted by Abby Cunningham on February 25, 2008, at 22:26:00
In reply to Re: Weaning off Diazepam, posted by dbc on February 25, 2008, at 17:46:09
> I think the main issue for us to help is we need to know exactly how much valium you're taking. I would also disregard most of the content of www.benzo.org.uk its pretty inflammatory, innacurate and in general is scare mongering.
Excuse me, I was speaking about Dr. Heather Ashton's manual on benzo withdrawal which is one of the best methods for tapering and can be found at benzo.uk. forget the other scary stuff, he's right.
Here is a direct link to her manual
http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/index.htm
Posted by dbc on February 26, 2008, at 2:04:27
In reply to Re: Weaning off Diazepam, posted by Abby Cunningham on February 25, 2008, at 22:26:00
It does not take a year to get off a high dose of valium thats absurd and ashtons manual is rather one sided and assumes the worst in the chemicals it disscuses discontinuing. Its more often used as a tool of propaghanda to scare doctors in the UK.
While ancedotal evidence != empirical anyone with common sense and experiance with the drugs realizes that most of her material is innacurate to put it nicely.
This doesnt even begin to bring up what else is going on the forum of that site. While im aware Dr. Ashton has nothing to do with the members of the forums they're notorious trolls of psyche boards.
Posted by Phillipa on February 26, 2008, at 13:06:56
In reply to Re: Weaning off Diazepam, posted by dbc on February 26, 2008, at 2:04:27
Is that why my pdoc never heard of her? Seriously she's an addictions specialist and sees nothing wrong with my 35 years use of benzos as no excalaption of dose. I was told to just cut down and was drug free for quite some time just stopped what was xanax 2mg at that time. Half-life 200 hours I think but sure could be wrong as I've had surgery and pain meds brain not working well. The surgeon said to take extra valium with the percocet and motrin. Gotta lie back down. Stitches hurt. Just cut a little off each day but again what does are you talking if really high may need inpatient. Don't know. Hope I didn't offend anyone apologies in advance. Phillipa
Posted by tessie on February 27, 2008, at 7:26:09
In reply to Re: Weaning off Diazepam » dbc, posted by Phillipa on February 26, 2008, at 13:06:56
Hi everyone, since I spoke to you guys last, I have now actually started on a plan of ridding myself of Diazepam. My husband and I came up with a plan that we think may work. Basically to start with my new doctor has prescribed me with, what he bellieves should be my very last prescription of diazepam and prescribed me with 30 tabs of 2mg, not 5mg as before. The plan goes like this.. We decided to start of with splitting the 2mg tablets into half to create a 1mg dose every day for 2 weeks. Then for the next 3 weeks I would take a quarter tab every night. Then the next 3 weeks I would take once again a quarter tab but only every second day. Next move I will take a quarter and miss 2 days again for the next 3 weeks, then the same dose for the next 3 weeks but miss 3 days before taking the next one. Each time I Would take all these doses I would mark them off on a spread sheet that myself and my husband planed out and worked on for a couple of hours only just the other day. This spread sheet we hope will act as a visual thing to see on a daily basis on our fridge, and to see how far we've come, and also to check on progress/count down to the last day. Of course as I too beleive, my husband thinks that this plan will only work with will power and determination. I am going to stick to it through thick and thin with his support in the lows and the stressfull times. We also belleive that it's also possible, just as before, on some nights there may not be a neeed for me to take this drug at all. For many reasons, one could be that the children are behaving themselves today. If you dont need to take it its OK thats a bonus, but on the other hand you can not take it if it's not your turn so to speak. This is were the will power would hopefully cut in. I will also mark off those days were I did'nt need to take it. Hope there will be plenty of those, over the course of time, and I also hope I dont have to take the whole 30 tablets with any luck.
Regards Tess
Posted by Abby Cunningham on February 27, 2008, at 10:25:14
In reply to Re: Weaning off Diazepam, posted by tessie on February 27, 2008, at 7:26:09
Tessie, I wish you all the best in your planned taper. May I just copy this as it gives good information about the rate of tapering etc. (not scary) and so true. I did reduce my benzo at a very slow rate and most posters here who reduced also went very slowly. Do a search of dr bob's "benzo withdrawal" and you will see. Here is part of the article :
The speed that benzodiazepine reduction regimes should be carried out at vary from person to person but usually is between 10% every 2 - 4 weeks. A slow withdrawal with the patient in control of dosage reductions coupled with reassurance that withdrawal symptoms are temporary have been found to produce the highest success rates. There is strong anecdotal evidence that a slow withdrawal rate significantly reduces the risk of a protracted and or severe withdrawal state.
You will do fine! Best wishes.
> Hi everyone, since I spoke to you guys last, I have now actually started on a plan of ridding myself of Diazepam. My husband and I came up with a plan that we think may work. Basically to start with my new doctor has prescribed me with, what he bellieves should be my very last prescription of diazepam and prescribed me with 30 tabs of 2mg, not 5mg as before. The plan goes like this.. We decided to start of with splitting the 2mg tablets into half to create a 1mg dose every day for 2 weeks. Then for the next 3 weeks I would take a quarter tab every night. Then the next 3 weeks I would take once again a quarter tab but only every second day. Next move I will take a quarter and miss 2 days again for the next 3 weeks, then the same dose for the next 3 weeks but miss 3 days before taking the next one. Each time I Would take all these doses I would mark them off on a spread sheet that myself and my husband planed out and worked on for a couple of hours only just the other day. This spread sheet we hope will act as a visual thing to see on a daily basis on our fridge, and to see how far we've come, and also to check on progress/count down to the last day. Of course as I too beleive, my husband thinks that this plan will only work with will power and determination. I am going to stick to it through thick and thin with his support in the lows and the stressfull times. We also belleive that it's also possible, just as before, on some nights there may not be a neeed for me to take this drug at all. For many reasons, one could be that the children are behaving themselves today. If you dont need to take it its OK thats a bonus, but on the other hand you can not take it if it's not your turn so to speak. This is were the will power would hopefully cut in. I will also mark off those days were I did'nt need to take it. Hope there will be plenty of those, over the course of time, and I also hope I dont have to take the whole 30 tablets with any luck.
> Regards Tess
Posted by yxibow on February 28, 2008, at 8:03:21
In reply to Re: Weaning off Diazepam » dbc, posted by Phillipa on February 26, 2008, at 13:06:56
> Is that why my pdoc never heard of her? Seriously she's an addictions specialist and sees nothing wrong with my 35 years use of benzos as no excalaption of dose. I was told to just cut down and was drug free for quite some time just stopped what was xanax 2mg at that time. Half-life 200 hours I think but sure could be wrong as I've had surgery and pain meds brain not working well. The surgeon said to take extra valium with the percocet and motrin. Gotta lie back down. Stitches hurt. Just cut a little off each day but again what does are you talking if really high may need inpatient. Don't know. Hope I didn't offend anyone apologies in advance. Phillipa
Yes -- but I can't go into detail because this is going to descend into a please be civil discussion.
There will be people who have the right to view and believe in the site, which by the way is not maintained in any way, as far as I can tell by the aforementioned professor.
No, it does not take a year to get off benzodiazepines. The general rule is about 10% per week and can be done in outpatient clinics and with your clinician. It is how the patient can stand the reduction, and probably has something but not everything to do with how long one has been on it, and all sorts of susceptibility to habituation and genetics and things that we don't know about and may not know about for decades about how the brain functions exactly.
I have been trying to taper... taper is the word, weaning is rather pejorative off of diazepam for a variety of reasons, one final reason is that it cannot be mixed with Clozaril, but also to gain more mental clarity that has developed a fog over the years. It has been a useful agent though -- even if I havent "felt it" or had an "aah", underlying it has been doing something I believe in concerto with Seroquel. There are lesser known studies of diazepam in use for schizophreniform and psychosis, the first which I don't have and the second which I only slightly have when I get extremely anxious.
We had to go back up on the high dose diazepam, but that is unusual -- because for me, diazepam acts as as much as a polypharmacy tool as much as it can act as an amnesic. There is no free lunch, as it is said.
But don't look to my situation as the end all to be all, and I would personally take the aforementioned site with a grain of sand just like any posting of course. Depending on how much of a dose, it can be a matter of weeks or months, on the general 10% a week reduction strategy, but not years. Now as to whether one begins to respond to the GABA transmitters afterwards soon, well, that is of course a matter that only the future knows.
I hope that helps.
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 3, 2008, at 3:25:23
In reply to Re: Weaning off Diazepam, posted by dbc on February 26, 2008, at 2:04:27
> the members of the forums they're notorious trolls of psyche boards.
Please don't post anything that could lead others (such as members of those forums) to feel accused or put down.
But please don't take this personally, either, this doesn't mean I don't like you or think you're a bad person.
I encourage anyone who has questions about this or about posting policies in general, or is interested in alternative ways of expressing themselves, to see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#enforceFollow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by tessie on March 4, 2008, at 6:03:00
In reply to Weaning off Diazepam, posted by tessie on February 25, 2008, at 7:16:11
Hi this is tess, i have started diazepam on 2mg for 1 and 2 days now. i have been getting Panic Attacks everynight from the with drawl of Diazepam and i am thinking posative about it. i dont feel nothing through the day but i feel it in the night time and i just want to know why. I have been depress and I dont want to do nothing in the house is that normal.
Posted by tessie on March 4, 2008, at 13:48:42
In reply to Re: Weaning off Diazepam, posted by tessie on March 4, 2008, at 6:03:00
Hi this is Tess, I have been taking Diazepam 2mg for the past 1 week and 2 days now and I am getting the with drawl. I have been getting Panic Attacks every night now and it is not like me getting Panic Attacks, I only get them 2 times a week. I was just wondering why am I getting them every night now because I feel depress and I start to cry alot now.
Posted by tessie on March 4, 2008, at 13:50:01
In reply to Re: Weaning off Diazepam, posted by tessie on March 4, 2008, at 6:03:00
Hi this is Tess, I have been taking Diazepam 2mg for the past 1 week and 2 days now and I am getting the with drawl. I have been getting Panic Attacks every night now and it is not like me getting Panic Attacks, I only get them 2 times a week. I was just wondering why am I getting them every night now because I feel depress and I start to cry alot now.
Posted by Phillipa on March 4, 2008, at 18:43:56
In reply to Re: Weaning off Diazepam, posted by tessie on March 4, 2008, at 13:50:01
Reminds me of patients going through withdrawal is a doc supervising your withdrawal. I just have to add did it work before? If so why the need to wean off? If you're been on it five years your brain is addicted to it. Sorry didn't read all the posts but could it be the lack of sleep at night you're too tired to do anything during the day? Love Phillipa
Posted by 4WD on March 6, 2008, at 14:58:44
In reply to Re: Weaning off Diazepam, posted by tessie on March 4, 2008, at 13:50:01
> Hi this is Tess, I have been taking Diazepam 2mg for the past 1 week and 2 days now and I am getting the with drawl. I have been getting Panic Attacks every night now and it is not like me getting Panic Attacks, I only get them 2 times a week. I was just wondering why am I getting them every night now because I feel depress and I start to cry alot now.
Hi Tessie,
I feel for you, I really do. I am pysically dependent on Klonopin and would love to wean off it but know I cant. I can't stand the panic.
As far as your sitation, I would echo Phillippa's qestion--is a doctor supervising your withdrawal? It sounds to me (and I have a lot of experience with benzodiazepines) that you are trying to wean off too quickly. The panic attacks and the depression happen to me too if I lower my dose. I cry and do nothing except sit on the couch scared to death. So I always go back.
Please keep posting here. We care about you.
Marsha
Posted by Xtrem3 on March 7, 2008, at 12:24:06
In reply to Weaning off Diazepam, posted by tessie on February 25, 2008, at 7:16:11
Posted by zero on March 11, 2008, at 0:56:06
In reply to Re: Weaning off Diazepam, posted by tessie on March 4, 2008, at 6:03:00
Posted by tessie on March 12, 2008, at 7:50:46
In reply to Re: Weaning off Diazepam (nm), posted by zero on March 11, 2008, at 0:56:06
HI EVERYONE THIS IS TESS I AM GOING THREW ALOT OF DEPRESSION AND HAVING PANIC ATTACKS EVERY NIGHT NOW IT IS VERY SCARER. I HAVE BEEN DOING ALOT OF THINGS SO I WONT THINK ABOUT IT BUT IT KEEPS ON COMING BACK. THE THING IS I FEEL OK THREW THE DAY BUT WHEN IT COMES NIGHT TIME I START GETTING THEM AND I WAS JUST WANT TO KNOW WHY.I JUST WANT TO SHARE THIS WITH YOUS ALL AND I AM HOPING I WILL GET SOME ANSWERS. BYE FOR NOW TESS
Posted by 4WD on March 12, 2008, at 18:31:23
In reply to Re: Weaning off Diazepam, posted by tessie on March 12, 2008, at 7:50:46
Hi Tess,
Everyone has different times of day where they are more scared. For me, it is midday. It used to be morning but now it is around 1pm.
Have you tried taking all your diazepam at night just before the panic attacks usually start? Maybe if you are taking it during the day, it is wearing off at night and you are getting more scared then.
I understand what you are going through. Please keep posting. We all care about you and what you are suffering.
Marsha
> HI EVERYONE THIS IS TESS I AM GOING THREW ALOT OF DEPRESSION AND HAVING PANIC ATTACKS EVERY NIGHT NOW IT IS VERY SCARER. I HAVE BEEN DOING ALOT OF THINGS SO I WONT THINK ABOUT IT BUT IT KEEPS ON COMING BACK. THE THING IS I FEEL OK THREW THE DAY BUT WHEN IT COMES NIGHT TIME I START GETTING THEM AND I WAS JUST WANT TO KNOW WHY.I JUST WANT TO SHARE THIS WITH YOUS ALL AND I AM HOPING I WILL GET SOME ANSWERS. BYE FOR NOW TESS
Posted by xtrem3 on March 14, 2008, at 9:09:18
In reply to Weaning off Diazepam, posted by tessie on February 25, 2008, at 7:16:11
> Hi my name is Tessie. I am after and am open to advice and sugestions on how I should attempt to
rid/Wean/Tapper myself off this drug called dizepam (Valium).
> I have tried already once before unsucessfully and now I am ready to do it for good. It was prescibed to me by a psychiatrist, for the reason of a temporary substitute for the drug I used to take called Serizon that was in the process of being taken of the market a few years ago. I was supossed to take this only for a short time until another drug was found to be more suitable than the various ones I tried that were not suited to me at all. This never happened. I never found that correct drug for coping with my Anxiety/Depression, yet I still needed to sleep at night hence taking Diazepam. I have now been on Diazepam for approximetely five years. Can anybody shine some light on this subject for me, it would be very appretiated. Regards Tessie
Hi Tessie,I am in a simular situation as you are and can very well sympathize with you as to what you are experiencing. Just remember that you are not alone.
You need to visit benzo.org.uk and view the Ashton manual. Pay attention to the information that pertains to you ONLY. Do not take information that does NOT apply to you and make the assumption that you are also suffering from that specific symptom or episode as a result of being on BZs. This usually results as what some may call "Benzophobia". Remember, it is an anti-benzo site and you must becareful of "medication supremists" who will stop it nothing to scare people off medication by any means. We are all unique and we all react differently not only to being on BZs, but also on withdrawal.
The diazepam (Valium) taper method as mentioned in the Ashton manual is the best way toward benzo cessation because it usually produces minimal withdrawal symptoms, and will allow you to function while you are breaking off the BZs. The good news is you are already on Diazepam and you do not need to do a crossover (Like Xanax and Klonopin users do). I'm not sure what dosage you are on, but whatever it is make sure you cut by 10% (usually 1mg per week until down to 5mg, and then 0.5mg per week there after does the trick).
The idea of withdrawaing this way from Valium is that (as explained in the Ashton manual) Valium has the longest acting half life and a long lasting presence of active metabolits (up to 200 hours) and as your slow decrease in dosage happens, your blood concentration level of the drug gradually declines rather than causing a sudden downspike which gives your Gaba receptors (the brain receptors in which BZs effects) time to adjust to normal function while the BZs are slowly removed from your system.
This withdrawal method is considered by many to be "overkill" and would just prolong withdrawal agony, but this has been proven wrong by many many people having trouble with benzo cessation.
Sudden withdrawal or rapid taper from a short-acting benzo (Klonopin, Xanax, Ativan, etc) has the potential to cause catastropic w/d symptoms(including the potential for seizure), and in addition, create what Ashton and other benzo withdrawal experts call Protracted Withdrawal Syndrome (PWS), which means withdrawal symptoms may last for many many months or even years. The slow taper from Valium as shown in Ashton's charts resulted in a 90% withdrawal success rate, meaning symptoms improved over a period of months to the point in which they feel like they did before starting benzos. The majority of 10% who had problems are considered to be either those who either crossed over too quickly, tapered too quickly, or were simply forced into withdrawal by their Doctor or by simple fear pushed into them by some Anti-benzo forum members.
You will do fine. Just follow the taper schedule. Remember, you can get the 2mg Valium (or generic Diazepam) tablets which are scored so that you can break them into half creating 1mg tablets.
During your taper, pay attention to your external life responsiblities and activities, rather than solely on the withdrawal (which is another reason why that 10% minority fails to withdrawal successfully). Go out with friends, play board games, do light to moderate exercising as much as you can. Most importantly, seek a cognitive behavioral theropy which will teach you how to cope off the drugs (benzos has the tendancy to disinhibit the learning of stress-copping skills while on them).
Good luck to you. You will be fine.
Posted by xtrem3 on March 14, 2008, at 9:26:53
In reply to Re: Weaning off Diazepam, posted by tessie on March 12, 2008, at 7:50:46
> HI EVERYONE THIS IS TESS I AM GOING THREW ALOT OF DEPRESSION AND HAVING PANIC ATTACKS EVERY NIGHT NOW IT IS VERY SCARER. I HAVE BEEN DOING ALOT OF THINGS SO I WONT THINK ABOUT IT BUT IT KEEPS ON COMING BACK. THE THING IS I FEEL OK THREW THE DAY BUT WHEN IT COMES NIGHT TIME I START GETTING THEM AND I WAS JUST WANT TO KNOW WHY.I JUST WANT TO SHARE THIS WITH YOUS ALL AND I AM HOPING I WILL GET SOME ANSWERS. BYE FOR NOW TESS
Hi Tess,I apologize as I missed this update from you. Just so I know what are you currently tapering by right now?
My guess is you are probably tapering too rapidly, or you are scrolling through anti-benzo forums and focusing on horror stories from others and generlising their stories to your situation. DO NOT DO THIS! This is one of the many reason whichs scares users out of withdrawal instead of encouraging them to do so. Benzo withdrawal is not a linear thing and is not as "hellish" as many say it is. Remember, only *10%* have problems with withdrawal. The other 90% who are having little to no problems you will probably never hear from simply because people only tend to post and complain online and seek help who are having problems.As I mentioned in my last post, you need to start Cognitive Behavioral Theropy (CBT) with a competent psychologist and learn how to deal and cope with your anxiety as you wean the medication. In the mean time, I would go back up in doseage until you feel functionable again, stablise there for a good month or so and then begin your slow taper schedule.
If your doc is rushing you off this stuff, please find another one who is more intune with the Ashton method.
Again, this is all normal and many people have these kinds of problems. These are not signs of insanity, madness, or any other form of psychosis. They are just morbid feelings. You are still YOU, it's just that your mind is in a bit of distress right now.
This is the end of the thread.
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