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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by atmlady on January 3, 2008, at 10:23:40
Can anyone think of a reason I shouldn't take Ixel (an SNRI) and Mirapex (a DA) together?
Posted by Mikez on January 3, 2008, at 14:32:16
In reply to Mirapex and Ixel together?, posted by atmlady on January 3, 2008, at 10:23:40
It would be safe and ive read a lot of posts on here from people who were extremely happy with mirapexs affect on mood and libido. Thats why im looking into it also. However I wouldn't just add it for the sake of hitting all 3 systems, unless you feel you arent getting a full response from the Ixel.
Posted by bleauberry on January 3, 2008, at 18:58:36
In reply to Mirapex and Ixel together?, posted by atmlady on January 3, 2008, at 10:23:40
Funny, I was just browsing over some clinical studies on milnacipran just before your post. In one them cabergoline was added to milnacipran and gave rapid significant benefits. Cabergoline is a dopamine agonist like mirapex.
Could you please tell me more about your experience with milnacipran? In my short trial of this med I was amazed with it. It had me feeling improvement beginning on day 2. I had to stop due to inability to urinate. Thinking of restarting at a lower dose. Just curious of your experience with it. What dose? Etc.
Posted by atmlady on January 3, 2008, at 19:43:49
In reply to Re: Mirapex and Ixel together?, posted by bleauberry on January 3, 2008, at 18:58:36
Hey, Blueberry - I've only just ordered the Ixel after reading great things about it. Namely, that it's been used for several years outside the US for depression with great results and 1. no sexual side effects, 2. no weight gain and 3. longer and better quality sleep. It's about to be approved in the US for Fibromyalgia. (I know YOU know this, but am just mentioning for others).
I've been on Wellbutrin for a year, but I really should be on Lexapro. Lex literally puts a song in my heart and for the first time in, like ever, I felt what happiness was. But I could not stand the weight gain and the anorgasmia. So my doc switched me to Wellbutrin December 06 and it was OK - I'm not happy but I'm not crying my eyes out and thinking morbid thoughts. Then last month I crashed, like it wasn't working anymore. So she upped my dose to 450mg - the max. It kinda sorta perked me up, but not much. So I added on my own some leftover Lexapro at night and la la la I'm happy with a song in my heart, just as I suspected. I'm also eating everything in sight and cannot orgasm anymore. I swear, this Lexapro affects me (good and bad) almost immediately!
So anyhow, obviously I really need seratonin, and I've been shopping for a way to get it without the crappy side effects of the current SSRI's. And I read about Ixel and it sounded like the answer to my prayers. But it also works on Norepinephrin (sp?) like Wellbutrin does, so I'm thinking I need to discontinue the WB when I get the Ixel. Then I thought, what will happen with dopamine when I cut out the WB? Ixel does not work on dopamine. So that's where I'm thinking the Mirapex would come in, but only if I needed it. Maybe I won't need it since I'm reading that Wellbutrin is actually a relatively weak inhibitor.
OK, I know I should be talking to my doc about this, but I'm uninsured and it costs me $100 each time I talk to her, and so far she's been pretty conservative with my treatment. Next time I talk to her I want to be able to know what I'm talking about and ask for what I want instead of depending on her to pull some drug name out of her butt for me to try.
I gotta say too, that another benefit of the Ixel will be cost - a month's worth of WB 450 mg costs me $384!! And then the Ambien that I need to fall asleep thanks to the WB costs another $150. All that money and not even feeling good -man.
If you're still there, thanks for listening to my rant! I will definitely post my thoughts on Ixel once I begin it!
Posted by Phillipa on January 3, 2008, at 21:36:21
In reply to Re: Mirapex and Ixel together?, posted by atmlady on January 3, 2008, at 19:43:49
I just googled Ixel is it in the United States? I haven't heard a word about it. Sounds a bit like cybalta or am I totally off base? thanks, Phillipa
Posted by atmlady on January 4, 2008, at 10:21:10
In reply to Re: Mirapex and Ixel together? » atmlady, posted by Phillipa on January 3, 2008, at 21:36:21
I had to buy the Ixel from the UK. From what I read, Effexor affects Serotonin and Norepinephrine at a ratio of 30:1. Cymbalta is more potent at both and the ratio is 9.4:1. But with Ixel, the ratio is 1:3 - so that's how it's different. It works more on NE. I suppose this explains the absence of sexual and weight SEs?? I don't know - I can't wait to try it, tho! Should arrive in a few days .... Meanwhile, I have ditched the Lexapro and have been using a lightbox the past three mornings hoping that will help my serotonin levels until the Ixel gets here!
Posted by Phillipa on January 4, 2008, at 19:04:36
In reply to Re: Mirapex and Ixel together? Cymbalta vs Ixel, posted by atmlady on January 4, 2008, at 10:21:10
Thanks so much for the education. I needed that. Love Phillipa
Posted by tensor on January 5, 2008, at 13:52:03
In reply to Re: Mirapex and Ixel together?, posted by bleauberry on January 3, 2008, at 18:58:36
I take Edronax, I have also taken Ixel, both gave me severe urological problems. Problems includes difficult to urinate, impotence and pain in that area. It is caused by NE stimulation of alpha-1 receptors and the solution is tamsulosin 0.4mg daily, an alpha-1 blocker which I use with 100% success. Naftodipil should also work. Tricyclic agents like nortriptyline blocks alpha-1 receptors "by default".
Posted by bleauberry on January 5, 2008, at 17:55:44
In reply to Re: Mirapex and Ixel together?, posted by atmlady on January 3, 2008, at 19:43:49
I ordered Ixel a few months ago and am giving it my second go. The first time I got such bad urinary hesitancy, actually almost total stoppage, it was scary. This time, I'm starting at a much lower dose and see.
Ixel starts working for me on day 2. Which is highly unusual for me. Everything makes me feel worse. Not Ixel. For anyone willing to take their own mental care into their own responsibility then I think Ixel is a good option to compete with FDA meds. It is prescribed in over 40 countries for moderate to severe depression.
To keep the parts of lexapro that you like, you could consider getting it in the liquid form. That way you could easy customize your dose in drops to get as much benefit as possible without exceeding the threshold of bad sex.
Even with an overseas order and shipping, Ixel is way cheaper than a brand name FDA drug. A nice option to have for those of us with no insurance or lousy insurance or lousy experience with generics.
You mentioned dopamine. Even though milnacipran does not have direct effects on dopamine reuptake, a scientific study did show that it increases the responsiveness of dopamine D2 and D3 receptors.
Too bad wellbutrin deserted you like a bad date. Wellbutrin works great for some and really bad for others. But one common trend I have noticed is that it doesn't seem to last very long. A few months maybe. It is hard to find anyone who has been on it and loved it for years.
Compared to lexapro I find Ixel side effects very mild. The first time was only 4 days but did not have any sign of sexual side effects. Lexapro hits me with bad side effects on the first day. Mileage varies. No way to predict. Hopefully we will both find out way.
> Hey, Blueberry - I've only just ordered the Ixel after reading great things about it. Namely, that it's been used for several years outside the US for depression with great results and 1. no sexual side effects, 2. no weight gain and 3. longer and better quality sleep. It's about to be approved in the US for Fibromyalgia. (I know YOU know this, but am just mentioning for others).
>
> I've been on Wellbutrin for a year, but I really should be on Lexapro. Lex literally puts a song in my heart and for the first time in, like ever, I felt what happiness was. But I could not stand the weight gain and the anorgasmia. So my doc switched me to Wellbutrin December 06 and it was OK - I'm not happy but I'm not crying my eyes out and thinking morbid thoughts. Then last month I crashed, like it wasn't working anymore. So she upped my dose to 450mg - the max. It kinda sorta perked me up, but not much. So I added on my own some leftover Lexapro at night and la la la I'm happy with a song in my heart, just as I suspected. I'm also eating everything in sight and cannot orgasm anymore. I swear, this Lexapro affects me (good and bad) almost immediately!
>
> So anyhow, obviously I really need seratonin, and I've been shopping for a way to get it without the crappy side effects of the current SSRI's. And I read about Ixel and it sounded like the answer to my prayers. But it also works on Norepinephrin (sp?) like Wellbutrin does, so I'm thinking I need to discontinue the WB when I get the Ixel. Then I thought, what will happen with dopamine when I cut out the WB? Ixel does not work on dopamine. So that's where I'm thinking the Mirapex would come in, but only if I needed it. Maybe I won't need it since I'm reading that Wellbutrin is actually a relatively weak inhibitor.
>
> OK, I know I should be talking to my doc about this, but I'm uninsured and it costs me $100 each time I talk to her, and so far she's been pretty conservative with my treatment. Next time I talk to her I want to be able to know what I'm talking about and ask for what I want instead of depending on her to pull some drug name out of her butt for me to try.
>
> I gotta say too, that another benefit of the Ixel will be cost - a month's worth of WB 450 mg costs me $384!! And then the Ambien that I need to fall asleep thanks to the WB costs another $150. All that money and not even feeling good -man.
>
> If you're still there, thanks for listening to my rant! I will definitely post my thoughts on Ixel once I begin it!
Posted by bleauberry on January 5, 2008, at 18:04:14
In reply to Re: Mirapex and Ixel together? » bleauberry, posted by tensor on January 5, 2008, at 13:52:03
Thank you VERY much for the tips Tensor! Somewhere in my surfing today I did come across tamsulosin and I wrote it down to remember.
Funny you mentioned Nortriptyline since it is the one my doctor prescribed and it is waiting on my desk for a first dose. I want to feel my way with Ixel first.
I am a little confused on Nortriptyline. You say it blocks alpha-1 by default. In other words, even though it stimulates NE like Ixel does, it has a built-in blocking ability to counter the urologial effects somewhat? Am I understanding that correctly?
> I take Edronax, I have also taken Ixel, both gave me severe urological problems. Problems includes difficult to urinate, impotence and pain in that area. It is caused by NE stimulation of alpha-1 receptors and the solution is tamsulosin 0.4mg daily, an alpha-1 blocker which I use with 100% success. Naftodipil should also work. Tricyclic agents like nortriptyline blocks alpha-1 receptors "by default".
Posted by tensor on January 6, 2008, at 5:58:26
In reply to Re: Mirapex and Ixel together? » tensor, posted by bleauberry on January 5, 2008, at 18:04:14
>You say it blocks alpha-1 by default. In other words, even though it stimulates NE like Ixel does, it has a built-in blocking ability to counter the urologial effects somewhat? Am I understanding that correctly?
Yes, that is correct. It's also true for other TCA's like desipramine, doxepine etc. Their blocking effect is rather strong, dizziness, sedation and hypotension are caused by alpha1 blocking.
/Mattias
This is the end of the thread.
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