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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 24 of 24. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by FrequentFryer on December 31, 2007, at 1:28:02
Hi.
Happy New Year.I have been on Zoloft & D-Amphetamine for about 8 months now.. the D-Amphetamine was good for a while but tollerance grew way to quickly. So I quit it and now I am left feeling like a Zombie (which is better then no meds but it dosn't make life worth living.) So I quit it aswell in hopes to find a better combo.
A couple of ideas came to mind. Tell me what you think. Or have experienced.1. Bupropion + Selegeline. (maybe these would react in a good way and stimulate more dopamine. Or maybe it would lead to a hypertension. dunno)
2. Nardil + Bupropion. Same as above.
Anyone else got any combo's they would like to share for resistant Anxiety / Depression?
Posted by Maxime on December 31, 2007, at 1:36:44
In reply to The Best Dopamine Cocktails!! (without Stimulants), posted by FrequentFryer on December 31, 2007, at 1:28:02
Any dopamine agonist (mirapex) with buspar would probably work well. A few people here have had luck with Mirapex. Or Strattera.
Maxime
Posted by Justherself54 on December 31, 2007, at 8:11:30
In reply to The Best Dopamine Cocktails!! (without Stimulants), posted by FrequentFryer on December 31, 2007, at 1:28:02
I don't have a combo, but I can tell you Nardil has been the best AD I've been on (and I've been on all of them, except Remeron) in various combos with other stuff..anxiety almost nil, depression gone, almost feel hypomanic but in a good way, tons of energy..although Nardil does have it's own unique side effects..If you're considering Nardil..give it a whirl..you may not need a cocktail with it..I find none of the apathy that SSRI's give on it either..and I'm only at 45 mg..
Posted by Racer on December 31, 2007, at 12:33:58
In reply to The Best Dopamine Cocktails!! (without Stimulants), posted by FrequentFryer on December 31, 2007, at 1:28:02
Posted by bulldog2 on December 31, 2007, at 15:21:58
In reply to The Best Dopamine Cocktails!! (without Stimulants), posted by FrequentFryer on December 31, 2007, at 1:28:02
> Hi.
> Happy New Year.
>
> I have been on Zoloft & D-Amphetamine for about 8 months now.. the D-Amphetamine was good for a while but tollerance grew way to quickly. So I quit it and now I am left feeling like a Zombie (which is better then no meds but it dosn't make life worth living.) So I quit it aswell in hopes to find a better combo.
> A couple of ideas came to mind. Tell me what you think. Or have experienced.
>
> 1. Bupropion + Selegeline. (maybe these would react in a good way and stimulate more dopamine. Or maybe it would lead to a hypertension. dunno)
>
> 2. Nardil + Bupropion. Same as above.
>
> Anyone else got any combo's they would like to share for resistant Anxiety / Depression?Parnate....stronger effects on dopamine than nardil...
Posted by bulldog2 on December 31, 2007, at 15:41:34
In reply to The Best Dopamine Cocktails!! (without Stimulants), posted by FrequentFryer on December 31, 2007, at 1:28:02
> Hi.
> Happy New Year.
>
> I have been on Zoloft & D-Amphetamine for about 8 months now.. the D-Amphetamine was good for a while but tollerance grew way to quickly. So I quit it and now I am left feeling like a Zombie (which is better then no meds but it dosn't make life worth living.) So I quit it aswell in hopes to find a better combo.
> A couple of ideas came to mind. Tell me what you think. Or have experienced.
>
> 1. Bupropion + Selegeline. (maybe these would react in a good way and stimulate more dopamine. Or maybe it would lead to a hypertension. dunno)
>
> 2. Nardil + Bupropion. Same as above.
>
> Anyone else got any combo's they would like to share for resistant Anxiety / Depression?An old babbler used to use memantine + adderall. He said the memantine prevented tolerance.
Posted by FrequentFryer on January 1, 2008, at 1:03:36
In reply to The Best Dopamine Cocktails!! (without Stimulants), posted by FrequentFryer on December 31, 2007, at 1:28:02
Thanks for the input all.
Yeah I will probably go on Nardil again for about the 7th time, (those combo's I mentioned are probably a long shot.) my main problem with it is the weight gain.
Also I always ignore the tyramine diet because I can never feel high blood preasure. (I used to think aslong as you didn't get a bad headache and high temperature you were ok.
But a Doctor told me you can't tell if you have hypertension or not so you have to stay away from the tyramine.
I guess a blood preasure monitor is the only way of telling.
Posted by former trx resistant on January 1, 2008, at 16:08:10
In reply to The Best Dopamine Cocktails!! (without Stimulants), posted by FrequentFryer on December 31, 2007, at 1:28:02
GET THEE TO THE EMSAM THREADS NOW!!!!!!!!! LOOK AT MINE, EMSAM MIRACLE.
YES, THER IS HELP!
Posted by former trx resistant on January 1, 2008, at 16:14:31
In reply to Re: The Best Dopamine Cocktails!! (without Stimulants), posted by FrequentFryer on January 1, 2008, at 1:03:36
NO weight gain, I've lost 20 pounds (4 months)with little effort, just a little walking and watch the sweets. Cured emotional eating binges.
My blood pressure has gone down 110/60 on EMSAM.
Amazing how healthy the body can be when you aren't fight MDD and Anxiety.
Good luck.
Posted by Racer on January 1, 2008, at 20:32:31
In reply to Re: The Best Dopamine Cocktails!! (without Stimulants), posted by former trx resistant on January 1, 2008, at 16:14:31
Sorry to Frequent Flyer for cutting in here...
How long did it take for you to feel the benefits of EMSAM? I've been on it now for about nine weeks, and am less functional now than before starting it. I keep hoping something good will come of it, but no joy so far. Did you feel the benefits sooner, or did it take a while to kick in?
(My pdoc has said that it can take up to twelve weeks to feel the full benefits of it, so I've been trying to stick it out for that long.)
Thanks.
Posted by elanor roosevelt on January 1, 2008, at 23:23:35
In reply to Re: The Best Dopamine Cocktails!! (without Stimulants), posted by FrequentFryer on January 1, 2008, at 1:03:36
If you are worried about weight gain why not try Parnate?
Posted by trx resistant on January 2, 2008, at 1:09:03
In reply to How long did it take for it to kick in? » former trx resistant, posted by Racer on January 1, 2008, at 20:32:31
Took 4 weeks at 6mg. 1 week 9mg - way too stimulating for me, like putting your finger in a socket. Took another 4 weeks to get that overstimulated dose out of my system which I handled by stopping patch for a week. Then wearing half of 6mg only for 12 hours, which is what works perfect for me.
So I began the EMSAM journey in October. Started to come out of shell and apartement for first time after Thanksgiving. By December feeling steady good sense of well being, strong emotionally, no anxiety. Week before Christmas I blossomed - just unfurling all those petals, one at a time. I asked a friend if I was noticibly chatty, like were people looking at me weird. I said maybe I should cut the patch in quarters. He said, " My God you just came out of the hole you were in for 9 years, of course you're chatty! You haven't interacted socially. You are your old self, not weird." That's exactly how I feel, like me!
So Bristol was right when they told me about 15 weeks to notice beginning of full effect if it works for you. Please give it a chance. Like all these drugs for the brain, it's tinker, tinker and it takes tremendous patience. Somedays you just give up. but don't! Like others on this site, something works, somehow you will find it. I had no choice, there was nothing left for me to try but the exit. Keep posting. Good Luck.
Posted by FrequentFryer on January 2, 2008, at 4:56:11
In reply to Re: The Best Dopamine Cocktails!! (without Stimula, posted by elanor roosevelt on January 1, 2008, at 23:23:35
> If you are worried about weight gain why not try Parnate?
>
>MMmm Im trying to decide between the two. But from what I can remember Parnate made me REALLY tired all the time at any dose. And just generally wasn't as effective as Nardil.
Posted by stargazer2 on January 2, 2008, at 9:09:06
In reply to Buproprion is contraindicated with either of those (nm) » FrequentFryer, posted by Racer on December 31, 2007, at 12:33:58
According to this article, Buproprion can be given with MAO's since it does not involve significant seotonin reuptake inhibition.
Of course, it is up to your pdoc to order and manage the medications and s(he ) may not be comdfortable with this combination. My pdoc has used this article with my sanctioning to add other so-called "no-no's" to Nardil.
The article is writen by the most respected pdocs in Boston at McLean and Harvard, so this is highly legitimate information.
Posted by stargazer2 on January 2, 2008, at 9:09:29
In reply to Buproprion is contraindicated with either of those (nm) » FrequentFryer, posted by Racer on December 31, 2007, at 12:33:58
According to this article, Buproprion can be given with MAO's since it does not involve significant seotonin reuptake inhibition.
Of course, it is up to your pdoc to order and manage the medications and s(he ) may not be comdfortable with this combination. My pdoc has used this article with my sanctioning to add other so-called "no-no's" to Nardil.
The article is writen by the most respected pdocs in Boston at McLean and Harvard, so this is highly legitimate information.
Posted by tecknohed on January 2, 2008, at 16:55:03
In reply to The Best Dopamine Cocktails!! (without Stimulants), posted by FrequentFryer on December 31, 2007, at 1:28:02
> A couple of ideas came to mind. Tell me what you think. Or have experienced.
>
> 1. Bupropion + Selegeline. (maybe these would react in a good way and stimulate more dopamine. Or maybe it would lead to a hypertension. dunno)
>
> 2. Nardil + Bupropion. Same as above.
>
> Anyone else got any combo's they would like to share for resistant Anxiety / Depression?I used bupropion (up to 500mg) with Nardil (90mg) without ANY problems of interaction. I did become slightly irritable, but this was more likely down to bupropion's NRi actions rather than it's DRI actions. It definitely abolished the tiredness associated with Nardil. Bupropion brang back Nardil's initial drive, but like I said irritibiliy was a problem, for me.
At the moment I'm taking Marplan with good results. Next I want to add bupropion again to counteract Marplan's hypersomnia which has creeped up on me, although a few nootropics have sorted out daytime tiredness whilst I AM awake. I've also ordered some Phosphatidylserine which is said to enhance dopamine, by increasing number of receptor sites. I hope so!
teck
Posted by jetsya on January 2, 2008, at 21:13:39
In reply to Re: How long did it take for it to kick in?, posted by trx resistant on January 2, 2008, at 1:09:03
Congrats. Nothing feels better than waking from a depressive nightmare, believe me, I know. I've had 3 or 4 major depressive episodes, and when I finally see the light of awakening feelin good. wow. Enjoy it, and exercise along with the meds; and never care if you are too up and chatty. JUST enjoy IT.
Posted by trx resistant on January 2, 2008, at 22:04:32
In reply to Re: How long did it take for it to kick in?, posted by jetsya on January 2, 2008, at 21:13:39
Thanks, I will. but keep me posted.
Posted by FrequentFryer on January 2, 2008, at 22:22:18
In reply to Re: Buproprion is contraindicated with either of those, posted by stargazer2 on January 2, 2008, at 9:09:29
Cheers
Posted by FrequentFryer on January 2, 2008, at 22:30:35
In reply to Re: The Best Dopamine Cocktails!! (without Stimula » FrequentFryer, posted by tecknohed on January 2, 2008, at 16:55:03
> > A couple of ideas came to mind. Tell me what you think. Or have experienced.
> >
> > 1. Bupropion + Selegeline. (maybe these would react in a good way and stimulate more dopamine. Or maybe it would lead to a hypertension. dunno)
> >
> > 2. Nardil + Bupropion. Same as above.
> >
> > Anyone else got any combo's they would like to share for resistant Anxiety / Depression?
>
> I used bupropion (up to 500mg) with Nardil (90mg) without ANY problems of interaction. I did become slightly irritable, but this was more likely down to bupropion's NRi actions rather than it's DRI actions. It definitely abolished the tiredness associated with Nardil. Bupropion brang back Nardil's initial drive, but like I said irritibiliy was a problem, for me.
>
> At the moment I'm taking Marplan with good results. Next I want to add bupropion again to counteract Marplan's hypersomnia which has creeped up on me, although a few nootropics have sorted out daytime tiredness whilst I AM awake. I've also ordered some Phosphatidylserine which is said to enhance dopamine, by increasing number of receptor sites. I hope so!
>
> teckThanks Teck.
Problem is Im so depressed Un-Motivated I can't even get out of bed let alone get to a doc.
I wonder if lazyness is a disease. heheh
But nah Ill try and get my *ss into gear.
Posted by FrequentFryer on January 3, 2008, at 3:00:27
In reply to Re: The Best Dopamine Cocktails!! (without Stimula » FrequentFryer, posted by tecknohed on January 2, 2008, at 16:55:03
Hi Teck, seems like your on the same page as me... U like Drum & Bass?
Anyways. Got a script for Nardil today, (Can't get Marplan in Australia).
If I bust the cardio hard enough should be able to keep the weight gain at bay.
What Nootropics are you taking?
Phosphatidylserine.... U reckon its superior to fish oil?
Whats your experience with dopamine agonists?Regards
Freq
Posted by tecknohed on January 3, 2008, at 5:54:34
In reply to Re: The Best Dopamine Cocktails!! (without Stimula » tecknohed, posted by FrequentFryer on January 3, 2008, at 3:00:27
> Hi Teck, seems like your on the same page as me... U like Drum & Bass?
> Anyways. Got a script for Nardil today, (Can't get Marplan in Australia).
> If I bust the cardio hard enough should be able to keep the weight gain at bay.
> What Nootropics are you taking?
> Phosphatidylserine.... U reckon its superior to fish oil?
> Whats your experience with dopamine agonists?
>
> Regards
> FreqI'm more of a TECHNO junkie myself :)
I dont understand why some countries (ie. Canada & Australia) dont have Marplan. IMO its alot more tolerable than Nardil. Still, Nardil wins outright for SA/SP, if you can keep it working of course.
The nootropics I take are Vinpocetine 10mg, Idebenone 2-300mg (currently tweeking that one) & Acetyl-L Cantitine (ALCAR) 2g. ALCAR has given me the most dramatic results out of the lot - totally got rid of my daytime lethargy/fatigue, unless I REALLY push myself.I take fish oil every day but only a low dose. High doses seem to mess up my blood sugars (I have diabetes). Never actually tried Phosphatidylserine before - I'm hoping its good. From what I've read its good stuff, and yes, maybe more effective than fish oil. Of course combine them for best results. Dopamine always seems to be mentioned when I read about Phosphatidylserine.
Never tried dopamine agonists but they're meant to be somewhat sedating. Like Link has noted before, its more likely that Noradrenalin/norepinephrine is responsible for most stimulants' activating properties, rather than dopamine itself. Most stimulants keep NA/NE raised for alot longer than they do dopamine, hence why you can get irritable after too much caffein or amphetamines.
tecknohed ('cause I love TECHNO music :)
Posted by shasling on January 7, 2008, at 5:14:03
In reply to The Best Dopamine Cocktails!! (without Stimulants), posted by FrequentFryer on December 31, 2007, at 1:28:02
> Hi.
> Happy New Year.
>
> I have been on Zoloft & D-Amphetamine for about 8 months now.. the D-Amphetamine was good for a while but tollerance grew way to quickly. So I quit it and now I am left feeling like a Zombie (which is better then no meds but it dosn't make life worth living.) So I quit it aswell in hopes to find a better combo.
> A couple of ideas came to mind. Tell me what you think. Or have experienced.
>
> 1. Bupropion + Selegeline. (maybe these would react in a good way and stimulate more dopamine. Or maybe it would lead to a hypertension. dunno)
>
> 2. Nardil + Bupropion. Same as above.
>
> Anyone else got any combo's they would like to share for resistant Anxiety / Depression?
Cymbalta 60 mg + Abilify 20 mg + Parlodel 3mg + 200 mg Provigil worked wonderfully for me for quite some time. The Abilify has to be titrated rather slowly as it can make you feel really jumpy and yucky if not.I never did feel a thing from Selegeline, though it presumably was doing me some good physically.
By the way my UNDERSTANDING is that selegeline is primarily an MAOI B, therefore okay with other classes of drugs if you stay at 5 or may 10 mg; it does not exhibit MAOI A properties until about 15mg. I took 5 mg with Cymbalta for some time with no ill effects.
Good luck!
Posted by trx resistant on January 7, 2008, at 13:26:09
In reply to Re: The Best Dopamine Cocktails!! (without Stimulants), posted by shasling on January 7, 2008, at 5:14:03
Hello out there. Have you been reading EMSAM thread? Stop all these mixtures unless you must. I've been able to get off everything and just use transdermal patch. As to those of you who think MAOI B is sedating . . . with my brain it's the best I have ever felt like I did in my 20's. Endless energy. No downside. I need to wear it for only 12 hours and only 1/2 a patch at that!
This is the end of the thread.
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