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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 9 to 33 of 33. Go back in thread:
Posted by llurpsienoodle on December 15, 2007, at 7:00:26
In reply to Re: I hate to offer advise....but... » Racer, posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on December 15, 2007, at 5:16:39
Hi all,
I'm trying SO hard not to gain weight. I've given up on losing weight. I want to call pdoc and get off of some of the culprit drugs. Maybe I can reduce my AP (abilify) and just keep the zyprexa prn, as it seems to work in a hurry. Maybe I can reduce the dose of zoloft, as that's when this problem started.BUT! in the meanwhile I'm going abroad for 3 weeks.
so I have to stick it out while sticking out (tall white girl in Asia... haha)
-Ll
Posted by linkadge on December 15, 2007, at 10:27:07
In reply to sticking out lol, posted by llurpsienoodle on December 15, 2007, at 7:00:26
Posted by linkadge on December 15, 2007, at 10:28:38
In reply to Re: Well,... I won't start a club for quitters (nm), posted by linkadge on December 15, 2007, at 10:27:07
Posted by Jamal Spelling on December 15, 2007, at 11:44:29
In reply to Re: Cause nobody would stay in it.... (nm), posted by linkadge on December 15, 2007, at 10:28:38
Posted by linkadge on December 15, 2007, at 11:46:14
In reply to Re: Us quitters are a persecuted minority (nm) » linkadge, posted by Jamal Spelling on December 15, 2007, at 11:44:29
"I was born to quit"
George Castanza.
Linkadge
Posted by Phillipa on December 15, 2007, at 13:39:09
In reply to sticking out lol, posted by llurpsienoodle on December 15, 2007, at 7:00:26
Lurpsie have a wonderful time. Phillipa ps that butt pic you were skinny on social that time.
Posted by llurpsienoodle on December 15, 2007, at 15:28:24
In reply to Re: sticking out lol » llurpsienoodle, posted by Phillipa on December 15, 2007, at 13:39:09
I have never posted a pic on this forum. you must have confused me with someone else.
ll
Posted by Phillipa on December 15, 2007, at 18:27:39
In reply to Re: Sticking It Out Club thread » Phillipa, posted by yxibow on December 15, 2007, at 2:51:18
Was always told take largest dose of day at night. And preferable at l00mg then anything over that should be in the am. Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on December 15, 2007, at 18:35:40
In reply to Re: sticking out lol » Phillipa, posted by llurpsienoodle on December 15, 2007, at 15:28:24
Lurpsie maybe you were the pic taker with kk and another babbler a long time ago. Phillipa
Posted by yxibow on December 15, 2007, at 22:09:51
In reply to Re: Sticking It Out Club thread » yxibow, posted by Phillipa on December 15, 2007, at 18:27:39
> Was always told take largest dose of day at night. And preferable at l00mg then anything over that should be in the am. Phillipa
That is correct. It is generally more sleep inducing for someone so taking 250, you would take 100 in the morning and 150 at night. But taking 50 in the morning and 100 one day and 100 in the morning and nothing the next night and the third day taking 150 in the morning and 75 at night is going to lead to a load of troubles of inconsistent plasma levels
Forget the half life, the plasma level is what you're aiming for and that can only happen when you take a dose consistently like you say 50 and 100 or 100 and 100 every single day for some weeks.
It just takes time and that's the "sticking it out" part because changes do occur over time, OC thoughts become less troublesome over time although you don't notice it.
That's the one thing about SSRIs, is that you'll never know how you got along with out one unless you drop it like a log (please don't do that).
Posted by yxibow on December 15, 2007, at 22:14:31
In reply to Re: I come from a long line of quitters, posted by linkadge on December 15, 2007, at 11:46:14
> "I was born to quit"
>
> George Castanza.
>
>
>
> Linkadge
>Its not quitting, its disillusionment or an alternative view of looking at things. Sometimes it takes the longest time to find something right, but I do believe that, and I'm not referring to you at all, there are some people who have a string of medicine bottles stretching across the room after dropping it after a week for things that... I don't know how to say it, some things that really are endurable because they eventually settle out. Because the reward may be more than the "minor discomfort". (See next paragraph for my caveat)
Now I'm not saying if something is giving you an instant rash or vomiting (non anxiety driven) uncontrollably that one shouldn't discontinue -- that's not "quitting."
Posted by linkadge on December 15, 2007, at 23:29:33
In reply to Re: I come from a long line of quitters » linkadge, posted by yxibow on December 15, 2007, at 22:14:31
I do recomend discontinuing medications prematurely for certain reasons.For instance, I had taken zoloft for a few months while feeling significantly worse than before taking it. Such feelings did not improve over the two months, and didn't abate untill after I stopped the medication.
When a different doctor initiated the same drug on a different ocasion, the exact same feelings returned, so I trusted myself and stopped the drug. I didn't expect anything magical to happen the second time around.
In some cases its not really a matter of blindly following the doctors orders, or getting over a start up phase. Its a matter of, I know where this trial is going, and this isn't a matter of toughing it out.
Somtimes I think that this is the clinical effect, ie inducing some sort of hellish drug reaction that takes your mind off your real problems. You know, how when you go to a horror movie you leave feeling glad to be alive, even though you are no more alive then when you went into the theatre.
Linkadge
Posted by sunnydays on December 15, 2007, at 23:33:51
In reply to Re: I come from a long line of quitters, posted by linkadge on December 15, 2007, at 23:29:33
I'm sorry you had that happen. I do agree there are situations where stopping a drug early is appropriate, as you described. I quit Wellbutrin after 3 days because I couldn't move my head without feeling like I was going to pass out and I looked like I was slightly drunk when walking.
However, I think ideally drugs will work without side effects. It's not just about taking your mind off the original suffering with new suffering, or it shouldn't be. I've been lucky in that Effexor and Lexapro had no side effects and worked quite well for me (although the Lexapro pooped out and it took a full twelve weeks for the Effexor to take effect).
If only it was easier to do the kind of research that needs to be done to figure out how these drugs work (I'm a science major, and it's just so incredibly complicated that I'm kind of amazed they even found the drugs in the first place). *sigh*
sunnydays
Posted by Racer on December 16, 2007, at 0:03:44
In reply to Re: I come from a long line of quitters » linkadge, posted by yxibow on December 15, 2007, at 22:14:31
> >
>
> Sometimes it takes the longest time to find something right, but I do believe that, and I'm not referring to you at all, there are some people who have a string of medicine bottles stretching across the room after dropping it after a week for things that... I don't know how to say it, some things that really are endurable because they eventually settle out. Because the reward may be more than the "minor discomfort".Thank you for making that point. I've dropped drugs very shortly after starting them, for good reasons and not-so-good reasons, and I've also stuck with a couple that caused problems I should have recognized as deal-killers much sooner. And I've stuck with medications that caused problems at the start, and found that they were effective enough to make any discomfort worthwhile.
Here's something I know about myself now: I panic about starting a new medication. I've had some bad experiences, and I'm frightened by trying new medications. So, before starting my current medication trial, I talked about that fear, and about my previous experience with stopping medications prematurely, and my therapist, my psychopharmacologist, and I came up with a potential solution to it. I would update my pdoc twice weekly via email, letting him know what was going on; and my therapist and I would discuss the problems I might run into and ways to cope with them. Turns out, having that in place has made even the worst periods of this current medication trial much easier than any others I've been through. Instead of having the panic build and build, I can communicate a problem to my treatment team, get a response that might reassure me -- and often get a solution to the problem. It's worth learning to communicate those fears to one's doctors, because it makes it possible to find solutions to the stresses of medication trials.
Most of the pattern I developed of stopping medications prematurely stemmed from a bad situation with a doctor. Often, his choice of medication left me feeling as though he was punishing me rather than treating me. (I'm anorexic and internet savvy -- tell me Remeron is the only thing out there to try? Um...) Not having a doctor I trusted made a huge difference in my ability to tolerate start up effects. I've had to work very hard to learn to trust my current doctor, and it's been worth the effort I've been making. (Although it's still a struggle to trust him, even though he's proved himself every time I've risked it so far.)
I started this thread in hope that we could support one another in a similar sort of manner. Reminding one another that the potential rewards -- relief from depressive symptoms -- outweigh most of the problems we start out with, and letting one another know there's a hand to hold as we struggle with those problems during this time of uncertainty. (I have a fairly low tolerance for uncertainty, which I think is not uncommon amongst people with anxiety disorders.)
Sorry for going on and on. Thanks again for your post. I really enjoy your posts, they're often so sensible, so kind. Thank you for being here.
Posted by Justherself54 on December 16, 2007, at 10:44:27
In reply to You make some good points » yxibow, posted by Racer on December 16, 2007, at 0:03:44
I too suffer terrible anxiety when starting a new med..I always stare at it for about 3 days, then with shaking hands take the first dose..I've had some awful experiences with starting meds so I work closely with my pdoc (by phone as it's an hour drive) usually 2-3 times a week. He's pulled me off some quickly (trazadone was one) and some he's been able to calm me (sometimes with extra clonazapam) to try to get through the first couple of weeks..
It's hard to take a new med when you're hanging on by your toenails..knowing that a new med is quite possibly going to make you feel worse for a couple of weeks..
Kudos to all us babblers who keep getting back on the med roller coaster!!
Posted by linkadge on December 16, 2007, at 15:25:28
In reply to You make some good points » yxibow, posted by Racer on December 16, 2007, at 0:03:44
>relief from depressive symptoms -- outweigh most >of the problems we start out with
Perhaps, that is, if the drug ends up working for you. Its not just a matter of enduring side effects for a guarenteed result. For people such as myself, many side effects many side effects don't improve, nor does the drug do anything meaningful.
Many of the side effects are not begign, and ignoring certain side effects may not be healthy.
Extreme akathesia may be accompanied by cholinergic dammage. Insomnia, high blood pressure or weight loss can sometimes worsen the clinical condition. Treatment emergent suicidiality (IMHO) should always indicate drug discontinuation. Paranoia, or psychotic thinking can happen with MAOI's, Wellbutrin, which can also worsen the clinical condition.
Posted by Phillipa on December 16, 2007, at 18:25:41
In reply to Re: You make some good points, posted by linkadge on December 16, 2007, at 15:25:28
Wellbutrin after one week made me manicy and I had an appointment with the pdoc who saw the condition I was in and sent me to the hospital for a week to get me off of it. Phillipa
Posted by Racer on December 16, 2007, at 19:40:32
In reply to Re: You make some good points, posted by linkadge on December 16, 2007, at 15:25:28
> >relief from depressive symptoms -- outweigh most >of the problems we start out with
>
> Perhaps, that is, if the drug ends up working for you. Its not just a matter of enduring side effects for a guarenteed result.I notice you only quoted part of what I wrote there. I wrote:
"Reminding one another that the potential rewards -- relief from depressive symptoms -- outweigh most of the problems we start out with, and letting one another know there's a hand to hold as we struggle with those problems during this time of uncertainty."
Of course there's no guarantee that any of these medication will work for any particular person. That's the uncertainty. But the POTENTIAL is there -- IF we make it through the wind up phase which is difficult for many of us to get through, largely because of that uncertainty.
And of course there are certain side effects which should tell us to stop a medication immediately. I've experienced a few of those myself.
What I'm saying is only this: the only way to find out if a medication will relieve one's symptoms is to stay on it long enough for it to work, and that we can support one another during that process.
So, Linkadge, which part of that last statement do you disagree with?
Posted by linkadge on December 16, 2007, at 20:40:50
In reply to I notice you didn't quote me completely » linkadge, posted by Racer on December 16, 2007, at 19:40:32
If you can tollerate the drug I say go for it.
Linkadge
Posted by yxibow on December 17, 2007, at 3:15:12
In reply to You make some good points » yxibow, posted by Racer on December 16, 2007, at 0:03:44
Thank you, no further responses to this thread. I'm just not at a good point these days but sometimes I turn here because I know there are people who don't have access to their relations. I don't claim to be the end all on psychopharmacology. Have a happy holiday.
Posted by Maxime on December 17, 2007, at 17:12:25
In reply to Sticking It Out Club thread, posted by Racer on December 14, 2007, at 18:03:23
I am wondering if there is any point in sticking out this med - Zoloft. Apathy is awful. But then again, do I want to go back to a blubbering fool? I don't think I do.
This is hard.
Maxime
Posted by sunnydays on December 17, 2007, at 18:41:18
In reply to Re: Sticking It Out Club thread, posted by Maxime on December 17, 2007, at 17:12:25
I'm sorry it's hard. Hang in there. I know that feeling of apathy. And I think that if you can hang in there with it, the apathy might pass. Keep trying.
sunnydays
Posted by Racer on December 17, 2007, at 22:06:37
In reply to Re: Sticking It Out Club thread, posted by Maxime on December 17, 2007, at 17:12:25
I know what you mean. For me, it's not so much apathy, as depression, but considering the other issues the EMSAM is creating for me, it's very tempting to say, "Enough!" But then -- my therapist reminds me that there was a reason my pdoc recommended switching from Wellbutrin, so going back to it without giving EMSAM a fair trial doesn't make a lot of sense, either.
I've got about another six weeks or so to go on my trial. After twelve weeks, if it hasn't worked, I will ask to go back to Wellbutrin/Concerta, and see if it's bearable.
Hang on, dear Maxime -- I'll hang on with you.
Posted by Maxime on December 19, 2007, at 12:32:46
In reply to Re: Sticking It Out Club thread » Maxime, posted by Racer on December 17, 2007, at 22:06:37
Thanks, Racer. I feel bad complaining when I know that you are going through worse because of the side-effects.
I'm also finding it hard to keep taking the Seroquel as it is making eat more and I have gained weight and I feel gross.
I will stick it for now.
Maxime
> I know what you mean. For me, it's not so much apathy, as depression, but considering the other issues the EMSAM is creating for me, it's very tempting to say, "Enough!" But then -- my therapist reminds me that there was a reason my pdoc recommended switching from Wellbutrin, so going back to it without giving EMSAM a fair trial doesn't make a lot of sense, either.
>
> I've got about another six weeks or so to go on my trial. After twelve weeks, if it hasn't worked, I will ask to go back to Wellbutrin/Concerta, and see if it's bearable.
>
> Hang on, dear Maxime -- I'll hang on with you.
Posted by Maxime on December 19, 2007, at 12:34:22
In reply to Re: Sticking It Out Club thread » Maxime, posted by sunnydays on December 17, 2007, at 18:41:18
Thank you, Sunnydays. :)I have taken SSRIs before and I don't remember feeling this way on them. But it was over 10 years ago so maybe my memory is selective.
I hope you are right and that the apathy will soon go away.
Maxime
This is the end of the thread.
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