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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by dondon on December 4, 2007, at 7:41:02
Has anyone smoked pot while taking ECT? I smoke pot daily and i am about to take ECT and i'm wondering if there would be any negative interactions between the 2.
Posted by bleauberry on December 4, 2007, at 17:09:13
In reply to another ECT question, posted by dondon on December 4, 2007, at 7:41:02
No one even knows what ECT does to the brain so I don't know how one could know if it is ok with pot or not.
ECT. Don't do it.
Opinion. Been there done that.
Posted by stargazer2 on December 4, 2007, at 20:20:38
In reply to another ECT question, posted by dondon on December 4, 2007, at 7:41:02
Don,
I'm assuming by your question that you have not asked your doc this question because he doesn't know you are smoking pot.If so, I would recommend not having ECT if you are not being totally honest with your doc about smoking pot. I have so many reasons for saying this but the bottom line is treatment of depression and other diagnoses is so difficult anyway, that unless your doc knows everything about you, the medical treatment and proposed ECT, have very little chance of succeeding.
Between the anesthestics used and seizure threshold levels in ECT being so carefully deetermined and monitored, I wouldn't risk undergoing ECT unless I was off all meds and I could honestly say that to anyone that asked what meds I was on. The anesthesiologist is
the most important person in ECT and demands honest answers to his questions. He usually will see you before you have ECT and go over your entire medication history.You have made a decision to treat yourself daily with pot. That is your drug of choice. Either it works for you or not. If it doesn't then you have options with other drugs for your condition, unless you cannot take medications or with ECT, if meds fail to help you.
Here on PsychoBabble we try and support eachother and give advice that is meaningful and points someone in the right direction. Some here have had ECT and will give their opinions on that.
Your question made me think that if you are still smoking pot daily, you need to question what the pot is doing for your depression. Since it is a depressant, I would think it would complicate things used to treat depression by making the depression more resistent to treat.
If you tell your docs about the pot perhaps they could switch you over to a medication that would help with your anxiety or whatever you use the pot for. If you could be switched over, then this would be compatible with having ECT and everyone would then be aware of all your meds.
That is all I can say to help you out with what I feel is the only way to have success with any treatment option, whether it be therapy, meds or ECT. They all require a level of honesty with ourselves and others. That is the basis of any success with these treatments, to get to the truth and find a place where we are comfortable in our own skin. This is not an easy road and I hope you can find an answer for yourself.
Stargazer
Posted by bleauberry on December 4, 2007, at 20:59:57
In reply to another ECT question, posted by dondon on December 4, 2007, at 7:41:02
Excellent post by stargazer2. Lots of wisdom in there.
Stop the pot.
And sorry but I have to say it again, rethink the ECT thing. There are other avenues that need to be explored first. I know ECT is done commonly at hospitals and it is widely accepted, but I am telling you it is downright serious stuff. And real real expensive. Even if you have good insurance, your portion of the bill will be enough to buy a modest car.
Thankk you stargazer2. Well said.
Sorry DonDon. Hey, just so you know, I was the world's biggest cannabis fan. Still am. But I quit it 2 years ago. It wasn't easy and it required a lot of pre-planning, purpose, and the help of xanax (or GABA/passionflower for the natural route with maybe a bit of 5htp if no meds are involved). The first week was not fun. The withdrawals are fairly short-lived though, compared to withdrawals of antidepressants or nicotine or something. Withdrawing from anything isn't easy, but withdrawing from pot was honestly easier than withdrawing from any prescription med I've ever taken.
Posted by stargazer2 on December 4, 2007, at 23:19:35
In reply to Re: another ECT question/DonDon, posted by stargazer2 on December 4, 2007, at 20:20:38
Well, thanks for the compliment...when things are wrong, they just are clearly wrong. Nothing can work for you if you are using. The chemical properties of pot combined with the properties of all the other meds used in ECT, pre and post meds, anesthetics, analgesics are sure to cause some sort of reaction which will obviously effect the seizure threshold. So the next thing done is an increase in voltage to try and prolong the seizure. This is what happens if a pt is on any anticonvulsants or sedatives. Not something I would risk although I am not a fan of ECT and have told my pdoc NEVER EVER will I have it done. I would rather take a handful of meds to anesthesize myself and make me forget how depressed I was. Seroquel got me out of a suicidal depression once. I'm very sensitive to meds so this helps sometimes get an immediate reaction.
I know some have found a benefit to ECT but many have found negatives too. My gut reaction is that it is a dangerous procedure and my observations are that doctors that do ECT are too quick to "push the button" before making sure medications have been successfully used first. I've seen it first hand all too often.
Stargazer
Posted by linkadge on December 4, 2007, at 23:37:30
In reply to Re: another ECT question/Bleauberry, posted by stargazer2 on December 4, 2007, at 23:19:35
>I know ECT is done commonly at hospitals and it >is widely accepted, but I am telling you it is >downright serious stuff.
I'd like to add that while ECT is done often in hospitals, it is not necessarily widely accepted. There is a lot of internal controversy that I know doesn't get a lot of publicity. Doctors likely have their own personal opinions about ECT that they don't share for fear of possible criticism. When ECT gets pulled off the market (which it will, hopefully in the next 10-15 years)the conscensious will change overnight.
New evidence shows that the statistics on ECT are *seriously* flawed, and this is not one procedure you want to have under under the wrong pretences.
A large, new study for instance, shows that between nonresponse, and relapse, something like 80% of those treated will have fully relapsed within a year. Then you've got the brain damage on top of that.>Withdrawing from anything isn't easy, but >withdrawing from pot was honestly easier than >withdrawing from any prescription med I've ever >taken.
I wouldn't be in any great rush to quit marijanna if you think it helps. I do agree with above that (for me at least) withdrawl was nothing compared to AD's.
What scares me about people going for ECT, is they always seem to be in this horrible rush. I liken it to a gambling mentality. It seems that they get it into their head that they want ECT, and there is nothing that can be done to have them consider otherwise. Something like a gambler, who has these visions of (whatever) in their head feels compelled to just wing an extreme gamble without full consideration of the consequences.
You may want to sober up from the MJ, just insomuch as you can make a clearheaded decision about the ECT. Not to say that your judgement is necessarily flawed, only that it sometimes can be with any substance.
Linkadge
Posted by stargazer2 on December 5, 2007, at 10:00:42
In reply to Re: another ECT question/Bleauberry, posted by linkadge on December 4, 2007, at 23:37:30
Just like with meds, ECT side effects are greatly minimized by the doctors. They will say they want to keep someone from focusing in on any negatives when undergoing treatment. But I'm the type of person who will only respect a doctor that tells me the good with the bad, because I wasn't born yesterday, and know that there are two sides to any treatments. Your best bet is to discuss with others their ECT results, both post treatment and a year after ECT has stopped. Many people have to have maintenance ECT which means they get treated every few months or if they relapse before then. Their results would be harder to define.
The only thing I would highly recommend is that you have had a fair trial of all classifications of medications, including MAO's. If your doc is inexperienced with or afraid of the risks, ask for a referral to a doc that uses them. All pdocs should be able to give you the name of a doc that uses MAO's, else I would start making phone calls myself.
What meds have you tried? Are you on any meds now? If so, any successes at all?
Oh, one more suggestion that I know can work, but is seen as too difficult when one is depressed is ACTIVITY. The more I learn about depression, the more I understand how important being active is to releasing "feel good" endorphins. All of the best experts in depression have advised me to exercise and I rationally know it is good but I can't stick with any routine for long enough to give it a chance to work. This is my newest goal.
Exercise is more beneficial than lying there expecting meds or ECT to do it all. A theory of depression (gene related) has been recently found to support this. It can't be rocket science either since it is impossible to be depressed and be active at the same time, seems rather obvious.
I'm not there yet myself, I'm trying to do something physical everyday, some days I do little to nothing, other days I push myself to get on equipment and break a sweat. I know there are small results happening every time I start doing something physical. But the rewards don't last unless you routinely follow this advice. Following through is my problem. Right now I should be out with the dogs on a hike.
I think exercise might be the common denominator for everyone because it's so difficult to stick with as a routine.
I hope I haven't "preached" too long. My intent is to say there are other options out there, the hardest ones may have the greatest chance of working. That is always true. Change is hard but necessary for survival. What if recovery from this is something we have more control over than we realize? That is a good thing, right?
Now I'm curious about others recovery using exercise as a first line of treatment. I'll start a post somewhere(?) asking about this.
I'm "talking " too much already. Sorry for big mouth syndrone this morning, must need exercise to burn off mental energy.
Stargazer
Posted by dondon on December 5, 2007, at 10:22:40
In reply to Re: another ECT question/Don Don, others, posted by stargazer2 on December 5, 2007, at 10:00:42
I've tried many psychiatric medications and none were effective for my depression. Amphetamines and NMDA antagonists are the only thing that have helped my depression. I think my depression is hard to treat because I have other medical conditions(epilepsy, syphilis, mono etc.)
Posted by stargazer2 on December 5, 2007, at 21:35:19
In reply to Re: another ECT question/Don Don, others, posted by dondon on December 5, 2007, at 10:22:40
Don, do you still take amphetamines or NMDA antagonists anymore if they were beneficial at one time? I'm not familiar with NMDA antagonists, what are they and what ones did you take?
Are you on other meds for your other conditions? I would think you take an anticonvulsant for the epilepsy. I had mono years ago and never took meds for that unless things are differnt today. How long ago did you have it? What treatment are you taking for syphilis?I wish you well in your search for answers...
*gazer
Posted by deniseuk190466 on December 9, 2007, at 11:29:11
In reply to Re: another ECT question, posted by bleauberry on December 4, 2007, at 17:09:13
Hi,
I just wanted to say although you don't recommend ECT it does not seem to have done you any harm (judging by your posts) long term. You still seem to be completely with it. If anything your emails are very well written and you don't seem to be any worse now than you were before having ECT.
Maybe as I'm only going by your messages I can't really get a clear picture of what you were like before having ECT and what you are like now but from your messages ECT does not seem to have damaged you in any way.
I know that you have found some relief with alternative therapies and it is wonderful that you have managed to do that but forgive me if I am being cynical but I can't understand for the life of me (and I envy you and admire your courage as I say this) how somebody who has spent so many years trying one medication after another, even to the point of having ECT and then taking opiates could suddenly find relief from the alternative therapies you now advocate.
How bad were you when your depression/anxiety first began, were you suicidal then? I'm just really curious.
Kind Regards......Denise
Posted by deniseuk190466 on January 9, 2008, at 17:34:28
In reply to To Bleauberry, posted by deniseuk190466 on December 9, 2007, at 11:29:11
Bleauberry,
I realise that you might not care to respond (this time) to my previous thread (as you didn't before :-) but I'm still curious to know if you found ECT to be that damaging.
I mean you seem so succinct in your notes, it doesn't seem to have affected you mentally, going by your notes.
Denise
This is the end of the thread.
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