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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Seeking Peace on October 25, 2007, at 19:31:54
any correlation between the 2 that anyone know of? can use of emsam slow down thyroid as a side effect or something?
Been on Emsam for about 6 months.. 1/2 of the 9 mg patch. during this time started getting REALLY tired and it keeps getting worse. My thyroid which was already slowing down for past 3 yrs or so...very very gradual...borderline...in past 4 months of so has jumped quite a bit...steeply...that i will now need thyroid meds...i initially thought emsam was making me tired...maybe it adds to it...i can't keep my eyes open at times and waking up is SO hard. i can sleep most of my weekends away. Craving sugar...coffee...etc.
i'm trying to figure out what is up with my thyroid and why sudden change... can extreme stress cause that? last year was a year from hell for me and now that things have gotten better (not totally ok as my job involves stress to a point), I now have a thyroid problem..
makes no sense..where did this come from?
Posted by Seeking Peace on October 25, 2007, at 19:33:34
In reply to Emsam + Thyroid, posted by Seeking Peace on October 25, 2007, at 19:31:54
think i posted in wrong forum but have no idea how to move it to the meds one...
Posted by Phillipa on October 25, 2007, at 20:19:15
In reply to Re: Emsam + Thyroid, posted by Seeking Peace on October 25, 2007, at 19:33:34
This is meds. And mine thyroid went with a year of incredible stress and it's been a year since an endo and he can't stabalize it. Have you been checked for hasimotos the autoimmune type most common and it is very unstable. I know the tired feeling too. Yawn. Phillipa
Posted by Seeking Peace on October 25, 2007, at 20:36:49
In reply to Re: Emsam + Thyroid » Seeking Peace, posted by Phillipa on October 25, 2007, at 20:19:15
I just found out today from my doc that my thyroid level jumped even more. It went from about 3.4 to 11.2 in 1 month or so. I asked him if I needed to see a specialist and he said no need and just prescribed me some meds. He says he's seen worse.
I am concerned though that in past few months only it went from borderline or so to 11.2. I'm debating seeing a specialist without his referal (my insurance allows that) though that would put me in an odd position with my doc. What do you think i should do?
The tiredness...god...i somehow get through work with coffee/sweet things...and then on bus ride home, 5 seconds of shut eye and I can doze off. Waking up is so hard too. If i could, I would sleep all day.
Posted by Phillipa on October 25, 2007, at 20:45:55
In reply to Re: Emsam + Thyroid » Phillipa, posted by Seeking Peace on October 25, 2007, at 20:36:49
Seriously all the regular docs do is test TSH. You need a complete thyroid panel and autoantigens. See an endocrinologist. Mines going down again and so tired. Wierd as when my TSH was 22 I was jumping out of my skin from anxiety and didn't know why til tested. This time it's acting like it should. As I said in other posts I'm wierd. Oh also check for thyroid sites like babble my husband learned a lot on them for me. Good luck and babblemail is always open. I need to check out thyroid board myself so tired and mine is .4??????? Should be hyper??????Phillipa
Posted by d0pamine on October 26, 2007, at 1:42:40
In reply to Emsam + Thyroid, posted by Seeking Peace on October 25, 2007, at 19:31:54
I have determined that EMSAM is inhibiting my parasympathetic nervous system although it seems unlikely that such a small amount as you're using would have the same impact, I can see how it would adversely affect an already weak thyroid if it did.
Posted by War-Face on October 26, 2007, at 13:40:00
In reply to Re: Emsam + Thyroid, posted by d0pamine on October 26, 2007, at 1:42:40
> I have determined that EMSAM is inhibiting my parasympathetic nervous system although it seems unlikely that such a small amount as you're using would have the same impact, I can see how it would adversely affect an already weak thyroid if it did.
Hey D0pamine. Hoping you can explain what the part about EMSAM's possible effects on parasympathetic nervous system might mean at the subjective level? I started EMSAM 6 mgs a few days ago and I am feeling very tired all the time.
Posted by Phillipa on October 26, 2007, at 19:12:34
In reply to Re: Emsam + Thyroid » d0pamine, posted by War-Face on October 26, 2007, at 13:40:00
Well something wierd is up as emsam has always reved people up so they could not sleep? Don't get it? Phillipa
Posted by Brody on October 26, 2007, at 19:19:11
In reply to Re: Emsam + Thyroid, posted by d0pamine on October 26, 2007, at 1:42:40
D0pamine,
I have an appointment for a pulmonary function test due to shortness of breath. I have been attributing this symptom to our brutal hot/humid summer as I work outside, but the problem has not abated since we have turned cooler.
I also experience a periodic increase in heart rate, though I have no other symptoms of anxiety/panic.
I also have noticed a dryness in my eyes and a change in my vision.
A complete novice with regard to the ANS, I did a quick Wikipedia review after reading your post and found a chart of the actions of neurotransmitters on the SNS and PSNS.
It is at the bottom of the page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomic_nervous_system
Seems I am either very susceptible to suggestion, or there could be a real connection here.
Assuming there is an inhibition of action, would you give me your opinion of whether these restricted actions are potentially harmful over the long run?
I don't want to give up my EMSAM!!
Thanks.... wishing I hadn't read your post ;-)
Janet
Posted by Seeking Peace on October 26, 2007, at 19:20:54
In reply to Re: Emsam + Thyroid » War-Face, posted by Phillipa on October 26, 2007, at 19:12:34
When I started Emsam, I too was like that...couldn't sleep..anxiety etc.....but then added zyprexa to help...lowest dose. I've been on zyprexa for yrs though...different combo...so i don't think zyprexa is the cause of my tiredness/need for constant sleeping etc.
Posted by Brody on October 26, 2007, at 19:28:09
In reply to Re: Emsam + Thyroid » War-Face, posted by Phillipa on October 26, 2007, at 19:12:34
> Well something wierd is up as emsam has always reved people up so they could not sleep? Don't get it? Phillipa>>
Hi Phillipa,
I did have insomnia initially (from the "rev up"), but I also had afternoon somnolence. The Provigil cured that.
It sounds to me to be the same sort of afternoon sleepiness that many Nardil users have reported.
For most, I think it does abate.
Janet
Posted by Brody on October 26, 2007, at 22:17:35
In reply to Re: Emsam + Thyroid, posted by d0pamine on October 26, 2007, at 1:42:40
> I have determined that EMSAM is inhibiting my parasympathetic nervous system >
Sorry.... should have included this question in my previous post:
Are you experiencing any of the same symptoms? I also had severe orthostatic hypotension early on with EMSAM. We reduced the dosage to accommodate that SE.
Janet
Posted by mav27 on October 27, 2007, at 5:42:59
In reply to Re: Emsam + Thyroid » d0pamine, posted by Brody on October 26, 2007, at 22:17:35
> > I have determined that EMSAM is inhibiting my parasympathetic nervous system >
>
> Sorry.... should have included this question in my previous post:
>
> Are you experiencing any of the same symptoms? I also had severe orthostatic hypotension early on with EMSAM. We reduced the dosage to accommodate that SE.
>
> Janet
>Did that hypotension go away after you lowered the dosage or just wasn't as bad? Were you then able to increase the dose back up without it getting worse/coming back? I'm having severe Hypotension problems with MAOI's.
Posted by Brody on October 27, 2007, at 7:04:23
In reply to Re: Emsam + Thyroid » Brody, posted by mav27 on October 27, 2007, at 5:42:59
>
> Did that hypotension go away after you lowered the dosage or just wasn't as bad? Were you then able to increase the dose back up without it getting worse/coming back? I'm having severe Hypotension problems with MAOI's.
>
>Hello. When my EMSAM dose was dropped from 12mg to 9mg, the hypotension problem was significantly reduced. And since then, it has dimished even more on it's own. I have only rare incidents anymore, from doing something obvious like stooping over and then popping up too fast, especially in the hot weather. I'm willing to accept this.
I never did raise the EMSAM dose again. Fortunately, any reduction in the AD benefits bounced back quickly, as the EMSAM benefits have been cumulative over time. My doctor was very aggressive in raising my initial doses to get me up to the 12mg, and I did not need that high of a dose.
Before reducing the EMSAM dose, we did try a prescription of "Florinef" in an attempt to raise my blood pressure. It increases blood volume, and many people have solved the problem that way. They report increased energy and their hypotension goes away. This med didn't work for me.... I retained too much fluid.
Are you new to your MAOI? Can you reduce the dose without diminishing the good
AD effects?I hope this is helpful. Best of luck.... I know how disruptive the hypotension can be.
Janet
Posted by d0pamine on October 27, 2007, at 14:20:30
In reply to Re: Emsam and PNS » d0pamine, posted by Brody on October 26, 2007, at 19:19:11
Although I can find no medical reference to it, I'm convinced mine has been inhibited. Some of my symptoms are difficult urination (urinary retention), slow healing wounds, sudden flair up of inflammation in joints all over my body that simply will not heal (I'm only 30), inability to sleep, chronic constipation and some other things that I'd rather not discuss. Every single one of these go away and all my sores heal within days of stopping EMSAM. I don't want to give it up either, but I am going to try to switch. I should note that I doubt this is nearly such an issue with the 6mg or possibly even with the 9mg patch. One more thing I accidentally put two patches on one day and my joint inflammation got so bad that I had to go to the Dr (This is notable as I rarely go to the Dr). I also went to a pretty unconventional chiropractor who without me telling him anything did some strange tests and told me that something was inhibiting my parasympathetic nervous system but he couldn't determine what (of course I knew what it was). Anyway I've stopped EMSAM (again) and hope to switch to bupropion.
Posted by d0pamine on October 27, 2007, at 14:23:00
In reply to Re: Emsam + Thyroid » d0pamine, posted by Brody on October 26, 2007, at 22:17:35
I have hypertension to an extent that almost eliminates the possibility of any single med causing hypotension, but if I take BP med and EMSAM and then go out and work in the heat everything goes black and my ears ring like jet engines, but EMSAM alone is insufficient to cause this for me.
Posted by Brody on October 27, 2007, at 18:52:47
In reply to Re: Emsam and PNS » Brody, posted by d0pamine on October 27, 2007, at 14:20:30
Phooey! I am really sorry you have to go off EMSAM, though I can understand why you don't want the live with the disruptive side effects you are experiencing.
I read about your wash-out concerns. I wish you the best during this period, and also with the bupropion.
P.S. Can you find a doc that can spell?
Janet
This is the end of the thread.
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