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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by James R on August 30, 2007, at 12:47:45
Howdy,
We have been working on a cure for mental illness. The 1st cut strategy basically increases TMG production by first enhancing the substrates for TMG production, and then
secondly down-regulating Inositol and choline levels. Inositol and choline deactivate TMG production.All feedback is welcome!
Regards,
JamesPLEASE NOT: THIS IS NOT THE SAME THING AS TAKING TMG and SAM-E supplements. Supplements often don't increase basal levels of the chemical
at hand.-------------------------------------------------
The TMG (trimethylglycine) cure for mental illness.
Hypothesis: Improving the liver's ability to manufacture TMG will cure mental illness.
Facts:
- TMG converts homocysteine to methionine and that leads to more SAM-E (S-Adenosyl methionine) production.
- SAM-E has been shown to improve monoamine synthesis.Here is the procedure to improve the liver's TMG synthesis:
1) Start taking a medication that raises choline levels. Norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors will work
(Wellbutrin or Effexor). Also an ACE inhibitor will do to.
2) Take a PKC inhibitor with an anticholenergic medication. The bioflavonoid Quercetin is a PKC
inhibitor and benadryl can be used for its anticholenergic attribute. Step 2 will "reset" your liver to
a healthy state for the mental illness battle. Also, the PKC inhibitor + anticholenergic med combo will do a clean sweep of dopamine receptor upregulation (it can cure tardive dystonia/dyskenesia and other issues related to dopamine receptor supersensitivity). We also may take alpha-lipoic
acid (ALA) to protect against glutathione peroxide while reprogramming the liver.
3) After finishing 2, get off all meds (the pkc inhibitor and benadryl and NRI/Ace inhibitor).
Start taking large doses of phosphatadyl choline and inositol. The chronic administration of
the 2 will ultimately *lower* the basal levels of choline and inositol in the body. This is good as
choline and inositol are TMG synthesis inhibitors. Also high choline levels can be associated with addiction, bipolar mania and more. Stop taking the phosphatadyl choline and inositol supplements when your biochemistry has reached the thereaputic range for basal choline and inositol (this can be subjective).
Posted by linkadge on August 30, 2007, at 13:27:38
In reply to Novel cure for mental illness,, posted by James R on August 30, 2007, at 12:47:45
Hmm, sounds kind of theoretical to me.
>1) Start taking a medication that raises choline >levels. Norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors will >work
>(Wellbutrin or Effexor). Also an ACE inhibitor >will do to.How to NRI's increase choline levels?
>2) Take a PKC inhibitor with an anticholenergic >medication. The bioflavonoid Quercetin is a PKC
>inhibitor and benadryl can be used for its >anticholenergic attribute. Step 2 will "reset" >your liver to
>a healthy state for the mental illness battle.
How do anticholinergics reset the liver?
How do PKC inhibitors reset the liver?>Also, the PKC inhibitor + anticholenergic med >combo will do a clean sweep of dopamine receptor >upregulation (it can cure tardive >dystonia/dyskenesia and other issues related to >dopamine receptor supersensitivity).
TD is not necessarily caused by dopamine receptor upregulation. There is some evidence of actual neurotoxicity, hence the preventitive use of antioxidants. Why are we assuming that dopamine receptors are upregulated?
>3) After finishing 2, get off all meds (the pkc >inhibitor and benadryl and NRI/Ace inhibitor).
>Start taking large doses of phosphatadyl choline >and inositol.>The chronic administration of
>the 2 will ultimately *lower* the basal levels >of choline and inositol in the body.Says who?
>This is good as choline and inositol are TMG >synthesis inhibitors. Also high choline levels >can be associated with addiction, bipolar mania >and more.
Says who? Somtimes choline is effective for rapid cycling in bipolar. Sometimes bipolar mania responds to cholinergic supplements. The antimanic drugs lithium and valproate work, in part by increasing cholinergic sensitivity.
Also, what disorder are we talking about here, unipolar or bipolar? For bipolar, increasing SAMe synthesis can be a very bad thing.
Some studies have found low inositol levels in the CSF of depressed suicides.
Linkadge
Posted by sam123 on August 30, 2007, at 14:12:20
In reply to Re: Novel cure for mental illness,, posted by linkadge on August 30, 2007, at 13:27:38
Cure implies that there is long term data, as the course of mental illness is measured in years, not
months or days. Remission, even without meds, does happen over the short term. Long term (years) is a real proof.So do you have long term studies/data ?
The grander the claim, the better the proof must be.
Posted by James R on August 30, 2007, at 15:21:38
In reply to Re: Novel cure for mental illness,, posted by linkadge on August 30, 2007, at 13:27:38
> Hmm, sounds kind of theoretical to me.
>Thanks for expressing interest in this strategy.
The treatment worked for me. Alas there is 1
data point indicating success.
I was schizoaffective with bipolar mood swings.
Also, I had a tardive dyskenia that caused horrible tension headaches and lock-jaw. The treatment cured the TD and my mood swings.
>
> >1) Start taking a medication that raises choline >levels. Norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors will >work
> >(Wellbutrin or Effexor). Also an ACE inhibitor >will do to.
>
> How to NRI's increase choline levels?
>
>I'll get back to you on this.
>
> >2) Take a PKC inhibitor with an anticholenergic >medication. The bioflavonoid Quercetin is a PKC
> >inhibitor and benadryl can be used for its >anticholenergic attribute. Step 2 will "reset" >your liver to
> >a healthy state for the mental illness battle.
>
>
> How do anticholinergics reset the liver?
> How do PKC inhibitors reset the liver?
>The anticholergic + PKC combo do the "liver reset".
I can come up with a formal proof of how liver
enzyme are rearranged with anticholergic med + PKC inhibitor. I need a a little time. Again,
I got this strategy from an aquantice.
> >Also, the PKC inhibitor + anticholenergic med >combo will do a clean sweep of dopamine receptor >upregulation (it can cure tardive >dystonia/dyskenesia and other issues related to >dopamine receptor supersensitivity).
>
> TD is not necessarily caused by dopamine receptor upregulation. There is some evidence of actual neurotoxicity, hence the preventitive use of antioxidants. Why are we assuming that dopamine receptors are upregulated?
>
>
>
> >3) After finishing 2, get off all meds (the pkc >inhibitor and benadryl and NRI/Ace inhibitor).
> >Start taking large doses of phosphatadyl choline >and inositol.
>
> >The chronic administration of
> >the 2 will ultimately *lower* the basal levels >of choline and inositol in the body.
>
> Says who?
>Supplements 101. You liver tries to maintain N units of a chemical. Next we injest a substantial
more of the chemical and we have N+M. The liver
will downregulate the natural internal production of the chemical because it wants N units.
> >This is good as choline and inositol are TMG >synthesis inhibitors. Also high choline levels >can be associated with addiction, bipolar mania >and more.
>
> Says who? Somtimes choline is effective for rapid cycling in bipolar. Sometimes bipolar mania responds to cholinergic supplements. The antimanic drugs lithium and valproate work, in part by increasing cholinergic sensitivity.
>
> Also, what disorder are we talking about here, unipolar or bipolar? For bipolar, increasing SAMe synthesis can be a very bad thing.
>I postulate that increasing SAM-E is safe with lower basal choline levels.
> Some studies have found low inositol levels in the CSF of depressed suicides.
>
> Linkadge
>
>
>Thanks for giving your time and thoughts.
Regards,
James R
Posted by James R on August 30, 2007, at 15:27:14
In reply to Re: Novel cure for mental illness,, posted by sam123 on August 30, 2007, at 14:12:20
> Cure implies that there is long term data, as the course of mental illness is measured in years, not
> months or days. Remission, even without meds, does happen over the short term. Long term (years) is a real proof.
>
> So do you have long term studies/data ?
>I do not have long term studies to support my
claims. The approach is novel. Sadly
pharmaceutical company's probably are not going to invest time and money in a possible cure.
> The grander the claim, the better the proof must be.Yes you are right, but if the idea is solid then
maybe others can try the system under the supervision of a doctor. I don't know if this
could spur any clinical trials.Regards,
James R
Posted by Phillipa on August 30, 2007, at 16:42:39
In reply to Re: Novel cure for mental illness,, posted by James R on August 30, 2007, at 15:27:14
Lock jaw is not possible I believe if teteanus shots up to date . Is this what you really meant to say? Just trying to be helpful. For all I know I'm wrong. Phillipa
Posted by linkadge on August 30, 2007, at 17:08:14
In reply to Re: Novel cure for mental illness, » James R, posted by Phillipa on August 30, 2007, at 16:42:39
Hey, I didn't mean to seem cynical. If something has worked for you it may help somebody else too.
Linkadge
Posted by James R on August 30, 2007, at 18:42:27
In reply to Re: Novel cure for mental illness,, posted by linkadge on August 30, 2007, at 17:08:14
> Hey, I didn't mean to seem cynical. If something has worked for you it may help somebody else too.
>
> LinkadgeLinkadge,
Thanks for your support. Hopefully I can come up with better theoretical models to explain the success story. Part of the problem is that I received the advise from someone "in the know".
I may have to see if he can help expain the
theory.Regards,
James R
Posted by James R on August 30, 2007, at 18:50:24
In reply to Re: Novel cure for mental illness, » James R, posted by Phillipa on August 30, 2007, at 16:42:39
> Lock jaw is not possible I believe if teteanus shots up to date . Is this what you really meant to say? Just trying to be helpful. For all I know I'm wrong. Phillipa
Thank you for caring Phillipa!
The tension headaches and lock jaw has been described as a tardive dyskenia/dystonia in the area of my brain called the Prefrontal Cortex.
For some people just taking an SSRI can lead to tension headaches and bruxism.
I was *ecstatic* after taking the PKC inhibitor and benadryl. I could hardly believe that I could
be cured of the TD's.Regards,
James R
Posted by Phillipa on August 30, 2007, at 20:16:57
In reply to Re: Novel cure for mental illness, » Phillipa, posted by James R on August 30, 2007, at 18:50:24
Ahhh had a feeling that's what you meant. Phillipa
Posted by James R on August 31, 2007, at 8:14:09
In reply to Novel cure for mental illness,, posted by James R on August 30, 2007, at 12:47:45
I hope this doesn't sound cheesy, but I would
like to coin a name "anti-supplement".An antisupplement is a supplement that when
injested at high dose causes the body to downregulate its own natural synthesis of the
supplement.So, phosphatdylcholine and inositol are anti-supplements. You get a short term rise in the
chemicals levels in the body, but when you quit
the antisupplement your basal levels of the chemical have actually fallen.James R
Posted by jhj on August 31, 2007, at 9:40:54
In reply to Re: Novel cure for mental illness,, posted by sam123 on August 30, 2007, at 14:12:20
You are right.Grander the claim,better the proof need be.But,in illness like dysthymia which i am having no short term rimission takes place with out medicine(in my case with medicine too so far).It is chronic 24 hours depression.One never feels good.So,in that kind of case,short term data give significant information.Thanks
Posted by jhj on August 31, 2007, at 9:49:24
In reply to Re: Novel cure for mental illness,, posted by James R on August 30, 2007, at 18:42:27
Hi,It is important to know how many percentage of patients improve by your treatment.At least,i am not interested in theories.I have read plenty of theories about mental illness which do not work on anybody.Thanks.
Posted by sam123 on August 31, 2007, at 12:10:40
In reply to Re: Novel cure for mental illness,-sam123, posted by jhj on August 31, 2007, at 9:40:54
>
> You are right.Grander the claim,better the proof need be.But,in illness like dysthymia which i am having no short term rimission takes place with out medicine(in my case with medicine too so far).It is chronic 24 hours depression.One never feels good.So,in that kind of case,short term data give significant information.Thanks
So how have things been over the last 2 decades ?
Decades are the course of mental illness.
Posted by jhj on September 1, 2007, at 9:58:20
In reply to Re: Novel cure for mental illness,-sam123, posted by sam123 on August 31, 2007, at 12:10:40
Dyshymia always maintain stable sad mood does not become better or worse for years or even decasdes.So,when mood improves,it can be safely said that particular treatment has worked.
Posted by mogger on September 2, 2007, at 3:28:28
In reply to Novel cure for mental illness,, posted by James R on August 30, 2007, at 12:47:45
I can't down grade inositol! I take 18grams a day for my ocd and it is f@#$ing awesome.
Posted by James R on September 8, 2007, at 20:45:54
In reply to Re: Novel cure for mental illness,-james R, posted by jhj on August 31, 2007, at 9:49:24
Thank you for expressing your concerns.
As the new treatment is still experimental
(I am the only guinea pig success story to date), I can not tell you the percentage of the population that will be helped.Regards,
James R>
> Hi,
>
> It is important to know how many percentage of patients improve by your treatment.At least,i am not interested in theories.I have read plenty of theories about mental illness which do not work on anybody.Thanks.
This is the end of the thread.
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