![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Jamal Spelling on August 28, 2007, at 13:48:23
My verbal recall seems to be deteriorating. When I talk with people, I know what it is that I want to say, but I can't seem to place the words necessary to express myself, even though I have sufficient vocabulary to do so.
So what's up, and how do I fix it?
Jamal
Posted by linkadge on August 28, 2007, at 16:01:50
In reply to Verbal recall, posted by Jamal Spelling on August 28, 2007, at 13:48:23
What meds are you taking? Any recent changes in med (increased doses etc)?
Some meds can cause problems like this.
Linkadge
Posted by Jamal Spelling on August 28, 2007, at 16:27:03
In reply to Re: Verbal recall, posted by linkadge on August 28, 2007, at 16:01:50
Hi Linkadge
Thanks for your response. I'm not taking any meds currently. This problem seems worse when I talk with people with whom I feel uncomforable. When I'm talking with my homeys, I'm much better. I'm thinking: some hypothesize that depression is a degenerative brain disease. I'm worried that I might be suffering some brain damage from years of partially treated depression. When I took SSRIs in the past, my verbal recall was better than it is now. What is the role of serotonin in verbal recall?
Jamal
Posted by linkadge on August 28, 2007, at 16:48:16
In reply to Re: Verbal recall, posted by Jamal Spelling on August 28, 2007, at 16:27:03
Hmm
>I'm not taking any meds currently. This problem >seems worse when I talk with people with whom I >feel uncomforable.
This can be a symptom of social anxiety disorder. It can occur by itself or comorbid with depression. Are you currently experiencing depressive symtpoms? Have you had symptoms of social anxiey in the past? (ie sweating, fear of talking to unfamilliar people etc?)
>some hypothesize that depression is a >degenerative brain disease. I'm worried that I >might be suffering some brain damage from years >of partially treated depression.
It is difficult to say. If you feel that you can communicate well, when you are with friends, then this probably means that the brain cells are there, but just not firing properly when you are under stress.
If you were completely forgetting things nomatter who you were with, then this might be more indicitive of loss of brain cells.
>When I took SSRIs in the past, my verbal recall >was better than it is now. What is the role of >serotonin in verbal recall?
Serotonin can play a role in verbal recall. I think the 5-ht2c receptors are involved in verbal recall.
It would be best to ask yourself how you are feeling now. If you are not depressed and doing well, then you may want to look at ways to work on improving confidence in crowds.
If, you are experiencing syptoms of depression or social anxiety disorder, you may want to get that treated first, and then see how things go.
Take care.
Linkadge
Posted by mike lynch on August 28, 2007, at 17:31:22
In reply to Re: Verbal recall, posted by linkadge on August 28, 2007, at 16:48:16
I had a problem were vocabulary increased in ssris, then decreased while off them, so i was trying to find words i no longer had access to with ease like on ssri's
Posted by Phillipa on August 28, 2007, at 19:16:27
In reply to Re: Verbal recall, posted by mike lynch on August 28, 2007, at 17:31:22
Almost sounds like Alzheimers? But you say when you're with friends no problem? Are you anxious?Phillipa
Posted by Larry Hoover on August 28, 2007, at 19:49:30
In reply to Verbal recall, posted by Jamal Spelling on August 28, 2007, at 13:48:23
> My verbal recall seems to be deteriorating. When I talk with people, I know what it is that I want to say, but I can't seem to place the words necessary to express myself, even though I have sufficient vocabulary to do so.
>
> So what's up, and how do I fix it?
>
> JamalYou might want to read up on aphasia or it's more limited form, dysphasia. It can be a sign of ADD, as one example. Or a symptom of some variant of anxiety. A nutritive approach to management would certainly include fish oil, for its membrand fluidity effects. Magnesium and or taurine might prove useful. Playing hardball might include methylphenidate, or one of the anti-Alzheimer's meds.
Lar
Posted by tecknohed on August 28, 2007, at 20:41:56
In reply to Verbal recall, posted by Jamal Spelling on August 28, 2007, at 13:48:23
Like Link says, could be Social Anxiety/phobia.
What you explain sounds just like me when my SP is playing up. Even when medicated (relatively well) I still get it, it just doesn't bother me as much 'cause the meds dont let it.
Whilst having a conversation, does this problem cause long pauses as you try to find the correct word to use even though you KNOW you know it?
Posted by Jamal Spelling on August 29, 2007, at 3:12:45
In reply to Re: Verbal recall » Jamal Spelling, posted by tecknohed on August 28, 2007, at 20:41:56
> I had a problem were vocabulary increased in ssris, then decreased while off them, so i was trying to find words i no longer had access to with ease like on ssri's
Thanks Mike. Yes, I've also found that words seem to come more easily for me, and my sentence construction is more advanced, when I'm using SSRIs.
> Almost sounds like Alzheimers? But you say when you're with friends no problem? Are you anxious?Phillipa
Thanks Phillipa. As I'm only 25, I think I'm still too young for Alzheimer's.
> You might want to read up on aphasia or it's more limited form, dysphasia. It can be a sign of ADD, as one example. Or a symptom of some variant of anxiety. A nutritive approach to management would certainly include fish oil, for its membrand fluidity effects. Magnesium and or taurine might prove useful. Playing hardball might include methylphenidate, or one of the anti-Alzheimer's meds.
Hi Larry. Wow, your contributions are always so informative and helpful. I've just read the Wikipedia article on aphasia and dysphasia. My symptoms aren't quite the same as what they describe in the article. Now I've often wondered whether I might have a light case of ADD. I manage to cope well with my schoolwork, but I also think I'm an underachiever. There are some people in my classes who achieve better gades than what I do, yet I know for a fact that I am smarter than what they are. Plus, caffeine seems to improve my speech somewhat. But when its effects wear off, I crash with depression.
> Like Link says, could be Social Anxiety/phobia.
> What you explain sounds just like me when my SP is playing up. Even when medicated (relatively well) I still get it, it just doesn't bother me as much 'cause the meds dont let it.
> Whilst having a conversation, does this problem cause long pauses as you try to find the correct word to use even though you KNOW you know it?
Thanks tecknohed. I used to be so spontaneous as a child. I'm not shy though. I can handle walking up to a stranger and asking for the time, etc. But I am no extrovert either. I prefer my own space and privacy. Lately, I'm having a problem with eating in front of strangers, and having people watch me while I'm doing things.
Jamal
Posted by tecknohed on August 29, 2007, at 6:54:28
In reply to Re: Verbal recall, posted by Jamal Spelling on August 29, 2007, at 3:12:45
> I prefer my own space and privacy. Lately, I'm having a problem with eating in front of strangers, and having people watch me while I'm doing things.
>
> JamalThe obove are typical symptoms of Social Anxiety/Phobia my friend. If I were you I'd do some research on it and see if it fits. At least then you might stand a better chance of how to treat it.
Good luck.
Posted by polarbear206 on August 29, 2007, at 8:34:57
In reply to Re: Verbal recall » Jamal Spelling, posted by tecknohed on August 29, 2007, at 6:54:28
>
> > I prefer my own space and privacy. Lately, I'm having a problem with eating in front of strangers, and having people watch me while I'm doing things.
> >
> > Jamal
>
> The obove are typical symptoms of Social Anxiety/Phobia my friend. If I were you I'd do some research on it and see if it fits. At least then you might stand a better chance of how to treat it.
>
> Good luck.
I agree with above poster. It appears that social anxiety is the culprit.Polarbear
Posted by Deus_Abscondis on September 5, 2007, at 5:59:08
In reply to Verbal recall, posted by Jamal Spelling on August 28, 2007, at 13:48:23
Jamal,
I'm not sure that what you meant to mean by using the term 'verbal recall' is what you were trying to get at, but I do understand.
Verbal recall is used in the context of short term/working memory testing. Connecting words to thoughts is another matter. From the symptoms you refer to it sounds like a mild expressive anomic-like aphasia of secondary origin (which could include memory issues and anxiety) but I suspect it isn't so exotic and a simpler explanation would fit. Without more significant symptoms or resolution with further thought or therapy I wouldn't be chasing neurological/medication based explanations.
It's all a bit tricky to disentangle, there can be more than one thing happening at a time. You can't take anything for granted and ones subjective appraisal isn't the best of guides. Only a battery of tests and a skilled interpreter could identify a mild language processing issue, but I think it isn't one. from what you have said. It sounds more like context based performance anxiety to me. The fact that the machinery works when you are comfortable is an indicator.
Anxiety can impact on a whole range of cognitive functions and there's lots of cognitive models. If you have a busy mind, alternative ways of expressing what you want to say may interfere or block. If what you want to say is complicated and you are a wordsmith you might also get a block. If you fear being misunderstood or are self conscious this can also block. Fear of offending the other person - showing your discomfort etc
I know a lot of guys will recognise this and laugh, but talking to an attractive woman whom you would like to have, um, an interest in can cause a block. Of course the reverse is true also.
What is it about the people you feel uncomfortable with and what is it about you? Are they people in authority etc?
However, you say that you _know_ what it is you want to say. Are you thinking in words - basic words? How do you _know_ what it is that you want to say - are the visual clues, connected emotions, attrubutes? Do you give yourself time to rehearse and sit with what you want to try and say or are we talking about talking fast on ones feet? Do the right words not come at all or do you feel dissatisfied with the ones you choose? Do you have similar problems writing or is it only verbal? Are you bilingual/polylingual, is English your first language?
There's that odd thing - you know you knew something or thought you knew but when it comes to perform you find out you don't know it as well as you thought you ought to or be able to recall it in as timely a manner or perhaps you never really knew it in the first place? You become aware of voids. You may recall the word but not be confident about the meaning, have a meaning that you thought connected to a word but are unsure about the word etc.
I'm not at all confident that I 'know' something until I have expressed it. If I think I know something and can't express it, not even a 'first pass approximation', it is an indication that I am confused or that it is a subtle or complicated thing that I am trying to express or even that I am trying to be creative in turning ideas into words.
I also know I can get rusty if I don't practice, including looking up words in the dictionary/thesaurus to check meaning. I can also get socially rusty by avoiding situations. One tip is to start simply and if needed elaborate bit by bit.
There's also the perception of ones fluency and the accuracy of this. I feel like I was more fluent in my younger days, I certainly talked faster and was, lets say errr 'self satisfied' but I don't think I would like to hear myself played back ;-)
Some basic things to consider - does it happen more when you are tired or fatigued? Have you changed your activity levels? Do you use any recreational substances? Do you have a good diet?
Yes it's a long response. I've got some time on my hands and I'm practicing thinking and writing :-)
Cheers
D
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.