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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 2 to 26 of 26. Go back in thread:
Posted by tecknohed on August 25, 2007, at 18:55:45
In reply to Stomach Acid and Anger, posted by Quintal on August 25, 2007, at 16:02:37
Stress of any sort is a common cause of heartburn. Maybe it has something to do with all that blood rushing to ones head when it really needs to be around the digestional tract to help digest your food.
Stress slows down digestion in the upper tract (I think) but can speed up the lower tract (hence 'the runs' we may get with anticipatory anxiety) so maybe your stomache tries to compensate by pumping out more acid to break down the food. Thats assuming you are eating some meals?
Think about it. Loss of appetite is also a symptom of stress. Stimulant drugs kind of replicate stress - the 'fight or flight' response, and people commonly loose thier appetite on amphetamines, at least with recreational doses.
Though I'm only hypothesizing.
Posted by LlurpsieNoodle on August 25, 2007, at 19:32:54
In reply to Re: Stomach Acid and Anger » Quintal, posted by tecknohed on August 25, 2007, at 18:55:45
haha q,
posted earlier about anxiety and stomach acid. of course, I just ate a LoT (threw a party) and what do you know? 3 margaritas later I'm no longer anxious OR have sour stomach.unless you're a grumpy drunk
I don't know what that drug is that you took.
pwd, guilty.
toodles,
-Ll
p.s. who GETs drunk from 3 margartitas? must be all these crazy brain pills I'm taking...p.p.s. hi Quintal!!!!!!!
Posted by tecknohed on August 25, 2007, at 19:35:47
In reply to Re: Stomach Acid and Anger » tecknohed, posted by LlurpsieNoodle on August 25, 2007, at 19:32:54
Posted by Quintal on August 25, 2007, at 19:49:52
In reply to Re: Stomach Acid and Anger » tecknohed, posted by LlurpsieNoodle on August 25, 2007, at 19:32:54
Lurpsie, this has nothing to do with anything you posted, in fact I haven't seen any recent posts on stomach acid and anxiety. I had an ulcer a month or two ago and the doctor gave me some lansoprazole - a proton-pump inhibitor, to let it heal. I kept two capsules just in case I needed them, and that's what I took tonight. I think the excess acid might have been making me irritable because I feel much better now it's gone.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20070730/msgs/773849.htmlQ
Posted by 10derheart on August 25, 2007, at 22:25:35
In reply to Re: Stomach Acid and Anger » LlurpsieNoodle, posted by Quintal on August 25, 2007, at 19:49:52
> in fact I haven't seen any recent posts on stomach acid and anxiety.
I think probably Llurpsie means this thread...it's mostly archived now, but there's a post remaining on this board still.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20070824/msgs/778540.html
Posted by Quintal on August 25, 2007, at 22:39:44
In reply to Re: Stomach Acid and Anger » Quintal, posted by 10derheart on August 25, 2007, at 22:25:35
I interpreted that thread as being about *drug-induced* GI upset, and responded appropriately.
>The only problem with this cocktail is that my stomach (upper GI is really upset).
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20070808/msgs/775251.htmlI don't recall seeing the passage where Lurpsie says her stomachache seems to get worse when she's nervous, probably because I've been ignoring notifications for that thread for some time.
Q
Posted by LlurpsieNoodle on August 25, 2007, at 22:59:20
In reply to Re: Stomach Acid and Anger » 10derheart, posted by Quintal on August 25, 2007, at 22:39:44
I Committed 2 babble-fouls in a row
1. referred to a post of mine without posting a link- that would have been more helpful. I guess stoopid me was not thinking clearly. hmmm I wonder why (confused head-scratching) thank goodness my liver works better than my brain tonight.
2. clicked the box for tec instead of quintal. I'm so sorry tec. I will apologize to both of you. inconsiderate.
Having said that, I think it's interesting how connected mental states and GI states are. "butterflies in the stomach"... Since having so much stomach upset myself recently, I have definitely noticed that it affects my moods. I'm more irritable, b*tchy, have less patience etc. when I'm in gastric pain, more so than when I have a headache, even.
Quintal, I'm sorry to hear that your stomach is really upset. I didn't realize.
so many things I don't realize. apologies.
Posted by LlurpsieNoodle on August 25, 2007, at 23:00:06
In reply to ????? (nm) » LlurpsieNoodle, posted by tecknohed on August 25, 2007, at 19:35:47
Posted by Phillipa on August 25, 2007, at 23:28:45
In reply to Re: Stomach Acid and Anger » Quintal, posted by LlurpsieNoodle on August 25, 2007, at 22:59:20
Well I guess a stomach ulcer is different from a peptic ulcer which pylori whatever causes cured with antibiotics. I'd definitely think that stress and anger would aggravate a stomach ulcer good thing you still had some medication and it's better now. Phillipa
Posted by Quintal on August 26, 2007, at 1:01:23
In reply to Re: Stomach Acid and Anger » Quintal, posted by LlurpsieNoodle on August 25, 2007, at 22:59:20
No worries Lurps. Anyway, I took a photo of my remaining lansoprazole capsule with foil covering intact. Not wanting to miss an opportunity my Abilify and generic alprazolam (with 1mg tablet used) crept in shot too:
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p46/Serepham/Picture2714.jpgI know stress is definitely linked to ulcers, and I think ulcers can definitely increase stress levels, which makes people more irritable and bad-tempered, so it's a vicious circle. I've been in a much better mood since the pain is gone. I'm not sure if lansoprazole has any intrinsic antidepressant/anxiolytic properties or whether it's just the relief?
I took some ibuprofen on Friday and I think that's what triggered this latest episode - took the lining off most likely, and that's also what caused the first ulcer. So I won't be taking any more.
Q
Posted by Bonnie_CA on August 26, 2007, at 1:32:01
In reply to Stomach Acid and Anger, posted by Quintal on August 25, 2007, at 16:02:37
Part of the way my anxiety manifests itself is in my stomach. I get ripping heartburn when meds aren't working. Xanax often resolves it, but taking promethazine helps it a lot too. But then I fall asleep, especially if I took the combo. But at least I don't feel like my stomach acid is going to replace my saliva anymore. :)
-Bonnie
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on August 26, 2007, at 1:54:59
In reply to Re: Stomach Acid and Anger » LlurpsieNoodle, posted by Quintal on August 26, 2007, at 1:01:23
I like it! :o)
Posted by jhj on August 26, 2007, at 4:29:29
In reply to Stomach Acid and Anger, posted by Quintal on August 25, 2007, at 16:02:37
Hi Quintal
Stomach acid does not cause anger.It is the other way round.When person is depressed,irritated or angry,there is an excess generation of stomach acid.It is psychosomatic and response to a stress,depression,anxiety etc..I was taking rabeprazole for a long time and still taking.But,before some years i had not heard about anything like mental disorders.But,i had server stomach acidity and i got endoscopy done and i had acid reflux and also inflammation on my intenstine due to acid secretion.The gastroentrologist tried rabeprezole(also,lansoprazole,pentoprazole etc) but,my symptoms did not improve.Then,he asked me whether i had habit of smoking,alcohole etc and i replied in negative.Then,he told me that only reason why i was not responding to the treatment is because it is psychosomatic and he directed me to psychiatrist after that i was diagnosed with dysthymia,GAD and social phobia.Thanks
Posted by Quintal on August 26, 2007, at 5:50:32
In reply to Re: Stomach Acid and Anger-quintal, posted by jhj on August 26, 2007, at 4:29:29
The link between stress, anger and ulcers is well established. There's no doubt that these factors increase secretion of stomach acid. I also know that chronic pain and discomfort lowers mood and drains energy, tending to make people short-tempered and irritable, so as I said, it can be a vicious circle because stomach ulcers can exacerbate the mental state that causes them. Lansoprazole broke that cycle for me in a very short space of time, thereby suggesting that either a) lansoprazole is a rapid-acting antidepressant, or b) that the pain and discomfort of stomach acid was making me feel angry and irritable, thereby contributing to my stress level, which would most likely trigger further production of acid, completing the cycle. I find it interesting that a stomach drug had such an impact on my mental state.
Q
Posted by LlurpsieNoodle on August 26, 2007, at 7:44:47
In reply to Re: Stomach Acid and Anger » LlurpsieNoodle, posted by Quintal on August 26, 2007, at 1:01:23
Posted by Larry Hoover on August 26, 2007, at 8:32:48
In reply to Re: Stomach Acid and Anger » LlurpsieNoodle, posted by Quintal on August 26, 2007, at 1:01:23
> No worries Lurps. Anyway, I took a photo of my remaining lansoprazole capsule with foil covering intact. Not wanting to miss an opportunity my Abilify and generic alprazolam (with 1mg tablet used) crept in shot too:
> http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p46/Serepham/Picture2714.jpgI don't know why they bother with this, anyway, but your Abilify appears to have expired.
Lar
Posted by LlurpsieNoodle on August 26, 2007, at 8:44:19
In reply to Re: Stomach Acid and Anger » Quintal, posted by Larry Hoover on August 26, 2007, at 8:32:48
> I don't know why they bother with this, anyway, but your Abilify appears to have expired.
>
> Larhttp://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/460159
supposedly doesn't matter, unless the author has some ax to grind with the mother-in-law ;)
-Ll
Posted by Quintal on August 26, 2007, at 11:24:59
In reply to Re: Stomach Acid and Anger » Quintal, posted by Larry Hoover on August 26, 2007, at 8:32:48
Yeah, Lar, I saw that too. I was prescribed Abilify back in August 2005 and could not tolerate it, but I keep all my old med packets for reference, and just in case I ever need them in the future. What's the point you're trying to make?
Q
Posted by Larry Hoover on August 26, 2007, at 12:24:22
In reply to Re: Stomach Acid and Anger » Larry Hoover, posted by Quintal on August 26, 2007, at 11:24:59
> Yeah, Lar, I saw that too. I was prescribed Abilify back in August 2005 and could not tolerate it, but I keep all my old med packets for reference, and just in case I ever need them in the future. What's the point you're trying to make?
>
> QProbably no point, really, other than to bring the issue to the fore. Foil packets are probably the ideal way to preserve medication from light and moisture.
The meds with true expiry issues are really quite rare. I've seen posts from people here about expired meds, and people throwing them away, even though they're needed. Tragic waste.
Lar
Posted by Quintal on August 26, 2007, at 12:42:01
In reply to expired meds, posted by LlurpsieNoodle on August 26, 2007, at 8:44:19
Thanks, interesting article. I remember looking at the expiry date on Abilify and thinking Gee (no actually I didn't say that), the aripirazole molecule must be really unstable! I'd never had a drug that expired so soon after manufacture.
I've taken drugs that are a few months past their expiry date and had no problem though, except once for a bottle of elderly ibuprofen that seemed to have developed a vinegary smell, which I thought was non too healthy.
Q
Posted by Quintal on August 26, 2007, at 12:57:08
In reply to Re: Stomach Acid and Anger » Quintal, posted by Larry Hoover on August 26, 2007, at 12:24:22
>Foil packets are probably the ideal way to preserve medication from light and moisture.
I've noticed that nearly all our meds are dispensed in blister strips here, but bottles seem to be the norm in the US. I suppose it means each individual tablet better is protected from light and moisture than if it were forced to slum it in a communal bottle?
The only antidepressant I've had in a bottle was Parnate, and that had one of those little moisture absorber devices to keep them all nice and fresh. They sometimes put diazepam and other common drugs like penicillin in bottles because they're dispensed from a large central container as required (I've seen them lifting the temazepam one out of the safe).
I posted the picture because in the past I've felt people have not believed some of my claims regarding the meds I've taken/am taking.
Q
Posted by Quintal on August 26, 2007, at 13:00:51
In reply to expired meds, posted by LlurpsieNoodle on August 26, 2007, at 8:44:19
I had to register to access this article, so I'll just cut & paste it here for convenience.
__________________________________________________
Thomas A. M. Kramer, MDThis month's Psychopharmacology Today column will be our second guest column. It is a piece that has been available on the Web for about a year but was brought to my attention recently. It answers a question that I have asked and been asked multiple times. Before I found this, no one had ever given me a straight answer about what the expiration dates on medications mean and how seriously they should be taken. This is an important issue, and I think that psychopharmacologists, if not all practitioners and patients, will find this column immensely helpful. It is well researched, well written, and I wish that I had written it myself.
September 9, 2002
DO MEDICATIONS REALLY EXPIRE?
Try An Experiment With Your Mother-In-LawBy Richard Altschuler
Does the expiration date on a bottle of a medication mean anything? If a bottle of Tylenol, for example, says something like "Do not use after June 1998," and it is August 2002, should you take the Tylenol? Should you discard it? Can you get hurt if you take it? Will it simply have lost its potency and do you no good?
In other words, are drug manufacturers being honest with us when they put an expiration date on their medications, or is the practice of dating just another drug industry scam, to get us to buy new medications when the old ones that purportedly have "expired" are still perfectly good?
These are the pressing questions I investigated after my mother-in-law recently said to me, "It doesn't mean anything," when I pointed out that the Tylenol she was about to take had "expired" 4 years and a few months ago. I was a bit mocking in my pronouncement -- feeling superior that I had noticed the chemical corpse in her cabinet -- but she was equally adamant in her reply, and is generally very sage about medical issues.
So I gave her a glass of water with the purportedly "dead" drug, of which she took 2 capsules for a pain in the upper back. About a half hour later she reported the pain seemed to have eased up a bit. I said "You could be having a placebo effect," not wanting to simply concede she was right about the drug, and also not actually knowing what I was talking about. I was just happy to hear that her pain had eased, even before we had our evening cocktails and hot tub dip (we were in "Leisure World," near Laguna Beach, California, where the hot tub is bigger than most Manhattan apartments, and "Heaven," as generally portrayed, would be raucous by comparison).
Upon my return to NYC and high-speed connection, I immediately scoured the medical databases and general literature for the answer to my question about drug expiration labeling. And voila, no sooner than I could say "Screwed again by the pharmaceutical industry," I had my answer. Here are the simple facts:
First, the expiration date, required by law in the United States, beginning in 1979, specifies only the date the manufacturer guarantees the full potency and safety of the drug -- it does not mean how long the drug is actually "good" or safe to use. Second, medical authorities uniformly say it is safe to take drugs past their expiration date -- no matter how "expired" the drugs purportedly are. Except for possibly the rarest of exceptions, you won't get hurt and you certainly won't get killed. A contested example of a rare exception is a case of renal tubular damage purportedly caused by expired tetracycline (reported by G. W. Frimpter and colleagues in JAMA, 1963;184:111). This outcome (disputed by other scientists) was supposedly caused by a chemical transformation of the active ingredient. Third, studies show that expired drugs may lose some of their potency over time, from as little as 5% or less to 50% or more (though usually much less than the latter). Even 10 years after the "expiration date," most drugs have a good deal of their original potency. So wisdom dictates that if your life does depend on an expired drug, and you must have 100% or so of its original strength, you should probably toss it and get a refill, in accordance with the cliché, "better safe than sorry." If your life does not depend on an expired drug -- such as that for headache, hay fever, or menstrual cramps -- take it and see what happens.
One of the largest studies ever conducted that supports the above points about "expired drug" labeling was done by the US military 15 years ago, according to a feature story in the Wall Street Journal (March 29, 2000), reported by Laurie P. Cohen. The military was sitting on a $1 billion stockpile of drugs and facing the daunting process of destroying and replacing its supply every 2 to 3 years, so it began a testing program to see if it could extend the life of its inventory. The testing, conducted by the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA), ultimately covered more than 100 drugs, prescription and over-the-counter. The results showed that about 90% of them were safe and effective as far as 15 years past their original expiration date.
In light of these results, a former director of the testing program, Francis Flaherty, said he concluded that expiration dates put on by manufacturers typically have no bearing on whether a drug is usable for longer. Mr. Flaherty noted that a drug maker is required to prove only that a drug is still good on whatever expiration date the company chooses to set. The expiration date doesn't mean, or even suggest, that the drug will stop being effective after that, nor that it will become harmful. "Manufacturers put expiration dates on for marketing, rather than scientific, reasons," said Mr. Flaherty, a pharmacist at the FDA until his retirement in 1999. "It's not profitable for them to have products on a shelf for 10 years. They want turnover."
The FDA cautioned there isn't enough evidence from the program, which is weighted toward drugs used during combat, to conclude most drugs in consumers' medicine cabinets are potent beyond the expiration date. Joel Davis, however, a former FDA expiration-date compliance chief, said that with a handful of exceptions -- notably nitroglycerin, insulin, and some liquid antibiotics -- most drugs are probably as durable as those the agency has tested for the military. "Most drugs degrade very slowly," he said. "In all likelihood, you can take a product you have at home and keep it for many years, especially if it's in the refrigerator." Consider aspirin. Bayer AG puts 2-year or 3-year dates on aspirin and says that it should be discarded after that. However, Chris Allen, a vice president at the Bayer unit that makes aspirin, said the dating is "pretty conservative"; when Bayer has tested 4-year-old aspirin, it remained 100% effective, he said. So why doesn't Bayer set a 4-year expiration date? Because the company often changes packaging, and it undertakes "continuous improvement programs," Mr. Allen said. Each change triggers a need for more expiration-date testing, and testing each time for a 4-year life would be impractical. Bayer has never tested aspirin beyond 4 years, Mr. Allen said. But Jens Carstensen has. Dr. Carstensen, professor emeritus at the University of Wisconsin's pharmacy school, who wrote what is considered the main text on drug stability, said, "I did a study of different aspirins, and after 5 years, Bayer was still excellent. Aspirin, if made correctly, is very stable.
Okay, I concede. My mother-in-law was right, once again. And I was wrong, once again, and with a wiseacre attitude to boot. Sorry mom. Now I think I'll take a swig of the 10-year dead package of Alka Seltzer in my medicine chest -- to ease the nausea I'm feeling from calculating how many billions of dollars the pharmaceutical industry bilks out of unknowing consumers every year who discard perfectly good drugs and buy new ones because they trust the industry's "expiration date labeling."
Reprinted with permission of Redflagsdaily
2003
Thomas A. M. Kramer, MD, Associate Professor of Psychiatry, University of Chicago, Chicago, Illinois
Medscape General Medicine 5(3), 2003. © 2003 Medscape
__________________________________________________Q
Posted by Phillipa on August 26, 2007, at 19:13:08
In reply to Do Medications Really Expire?, posted by Quintal on August 26, 2007, at 13:00:51
If aspirin smells like vinegar it's no longer good. I took luvox the original about a year ago as it was very expensive no problems with it either. Phillipa
Posted by jhj on August 27, 2007, at 3:34:46
In reply to Re: Stomach Acid and Anger » jhj, posted by Quintal on August 26, 2007, at 5:50:32
I have faced this problem since my childhood so i have some idea about the realtion between mental illness and stomach acidity.The sequence happend like that.
First,when i was around 10,i stared to develop social anxiety.That time i did not have any problem with stomach.Gradually that anxiety began to trouble me in other situations too and i developed GAD.During that phase,i started to have some problems with acidity and stomach pain.After that i plunged into depression gradually and after that my stomach acidity was giving me lots of problems.I was always in bad mood and irritable due to depression but,due to this somatic problem of stomach acid and pain i became even more peevish.So,First the mental problems lead to excess stomach acidity and due to these mental problems person is angry or irritable anyway. add to that,the physical problems,which worsens the mood and makes person more peevish.If any PPI be it omeprazole,lansoprazole,rabeprazole or pentoprazole successfully suppress the excess secretion of acid then,person feels physically much batter and hence,he remains irritable and angry only due to mental reasons and physical cause is taken out of equation.That is probably why you felt better after taking lansoprazole because it got rid of physical problem which was increasing anger.Lansoprazole or any PPI does not act as antidepressant at all but the second reason given by you is partially true.Improvement in your somatic problem due to lansoprazole's success in suppressing acid generation made your mood better then before and less peevish.That has not happened in my case unfortunately because no proton pump inhibitor is able to reduce my acidity.
Posted by elanor roosevelt on August 28, 2007, at 22:21:34
In reply to Re: Stomach Acid and Anger » LlurpsieNoodle, posted by Quintal on August 25, 2007, at 19:49:52
hey -- does stress cause acid indigestion?
absolutelythe best thing is to eat rare steak -- it gives the excess digestive juices something to do
don't drink milk
the body identifies milk (ingested alone) as a solid food and over-produces digestive juices (acid)
This is the end of the thread.
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