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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Mission7 on August 18, 2007, at 16:47:33
How do researchers measure levels of norepinephrine, dopamine & serotonin? Getting into someone's head to scrape out a good sample for analysis doesn't seem possible.
Posted by sam123 on August 18, 2007, at 17:06:40
In reply to How do they measure serotonin., posted by Mission7 on August 18, 2007, at 16:47:33
they don't, not in the CNS. Can't do that yet, and it is decades away. Depletion theories are over simplifications to help lay person understand that this is a physical disease.
Posted by girlnterrupted78 on August 18, 2007, at 23:35:36
In reply to How do they measure serotonin., posted by Mission7 on August 18, 2007, at 16:47:33
I've heard there's a urine test that measures your neurotransmitters. I don't know how true or reliable this might be, but there seems to be lots of clinics that do that and then prescribe natural supplements to correct any neurotransmitter imbalances.
Again, I have no idea how legit this might be, but if you do a google search, you will find lots of places that offer this kind of "amino acid therapy" after determining (through the urine test) what neurotransmitters are deficient.
Posted by sam123 on August 19, 2007, at 1:02:31
In reply to Re: How do they measure serotonin. » Mission7, posted by girlnterrupted78 on August 18, 2007, at 23:35:36
> I've heard there's a urine test that measures your neurotransmitters.
They do not measure NT is the CNS, levels in urine have nothing to do with levels in the CNS. There is more serotonin in your than in your CNS. These tests are used in serious metabolic disorders, not mental illness.
Sorry...there just is not a test for levels of neurotransmitters. This does not stop the quacks
from taking your money.
Posted by girlnterrupted78 on August 19, 2007, at 1:25:45
In reply to Re: How do they measure serotonin., posted by sam123 on August 19, 2007, at 1:02:31
Well, like I said, I don't know how legit this might be. I've seen it around for a while, and there's some books around regarding the topic. I once read the one called "Mood Cure." But I never knew how to measure their credibility.
You seem very informed on this. Do you have any link/reliable source that could shed light on the fact that their supplements for "depression" and the amino acid therapy for dopamine (l-tyrosine), serotonin (5HTP), gaba (GABA), etc, is just bs by quacks? After reading that book, it sort of made sense to me, but again, it's just a book from someone I didn't know through her credentials.
If you could provide some realiable source, or just tell us how you know it's bs, I'd really appreciate it.
Thank you,
GI78
Posted by sam123 on August 19, 2007, at 2:40:32
In reply to Re: How do they measure serotonin. » sam123, posted by girlnterrupted78 on August 19, 2007, at 1:25:45
>
> You seem very informed on this. Do you have any link/reliable source that could shed light on the fact that their supplements for "depression" and the amino acid therapy for dopamine (l-tyrosine), serotonin (5HTP), gaba (GABA), etc, is just bs by quacks?
I did not say anything about amino supps being quackery.
Posted by sam123 on August 19, 2007, at 2:44:25
In reply to Re: How do they measure serotonin. » sam123, posted by girlnterrupted78 on August 19, 2007, at 1:25:45
Posted by girlnterrupted78 on August 19, 2007, at 7:24:46
In reply to Re: How do they measure serotonin., posted by sam123 on August 19, 2007, at 2:44:25
Well, now it is more clear. I see you were referring to the urine test alone. Sorry about the misunderstanding.
It is a shame and a cruelty that even holistic clinics are attempting to rip off patients who suffer from such a debilitating illness like depression.
How could they think they wouldn't be found out eventually? This all seems very strange. I wonder..Did they ALL willfully attempt to rip off? Or they actually believed they were measuring NT? Who knows.. but I'm sure they must be profiting from those who have no clue.
Posted by sam123 on August 19, 2007, at 14:08:07
In reply to Re: How do they measure serotonin. » sam123, posted by girlnterrupted78 on August 19, 2007, at 7:24:46
Given the abundance of the 8 essential aminos in everyday food I do not see the point in buying amino
supps.
Posted by linkadge on August 19, 2007, at 14:32:03
In reply to Re: How do they measure serotonin., posted by sam123 on August 19, 2007, at 14:08:07
>Given the abundance of the 8 essential aminos in >everyday food I do not see the point in buying >amino supps.
Generally I'd agree, but there are certain disorders that may benifit from doses of amino acids which are in excess of what is found in the daily diet.
In parkinsons, for instance, one can benifit from amino acid precursor to dopamine in excess of the levels found in food.
Linkadge
Posted by sam123 on August 19, 2007, at 15:49:22
In reply to Re: How do they measure serotonin., posted by linkadge on August 19, 2007, at 14:32:03
>
> Generally I'd agree, but there are certain disorders that may benifit from doses of amino acids which are in excess of what is found in the daily diet.
>I would agree with this, too.
Posted by Larry Hoover on August 19, 2007, at 16:52:54
In reply to Re: How do they measure serotonin., posted by sam123 on August 19, 2007, at 14:08:07
> Given the abundance of the 8 essential aminos in everyday food I do not see the point in buying amino
> supps.I would argue with respect to the abundance issue, given the need for vegans/vegetarians to mix and match to manage the absence of essential aminos in e.g. corn or rice.....but that's not really at issue here.
I think the assumption that dietary constituents are necessarily fully bioavailable is flawed. Just because a nutrient is swallowed, it does not imply that the nutrient will make it into the circulation. For example, digestion of protein can fail at many sites in the gut. And even if an amino makes it into the circulation, it must be pumped into tissue compartments. In the case of tryptophan, the precursor to serotonin, it not only is one of the rarer of all aminos on a weight-weight basis, it is also the one with the least affinity of six aminos competing for just one pump (LNAAT, the large neutral amino acid transporter), for access to the brain.
Ingesting a pure amino bypasses the whole issue of digestion. Moreover, relatively short term spikes in blood concentration can be created, which will influence the rates of transporters and enzymes in turn.
It's just a different method for influencing biochemical processes.
Lar
Posted by sam123 on August 19, 2007, at 17:10:21
In reply to Re: How do they measure serotonin. » sam123, posted by Larry Hoover on August 19, 2007, at 16:52:54
>
> I would argue with respect to the abundance issue, given the need for vegans/vegetarians to mix and match to manage the absence of essential aminos in e.g. corn or rice.....but that's not really at issue here.nope, unles you are a vegan not wanting to be malnurished !
>
> I think the assumption that dietary constituents are necessarily fully bioavailable is flawed. Just because a nutrient is swallowed,So food is not the ideal source for nutrients ?
Posted by twinch42085 on August 19, 2007, at 19:53:40
In reply to Re: How do they measure serotonin., posted by sam123 on August 19, 2007, at 17:10:21
I am really interested in the knowledge that is being discussed in this thread. Are there in credible websites that you might know where I could look on to further educate myself about neurotransmitters? I would really appreciate it
Thanks : )
Posted by Larry Hoover on August 19, 2007, at 21:09:42
In reply to Re: How do they measure serotonin. » sam123, posted by twinch42085 on August 19, 2007, at 19:53:40
> I am really interested in the knowledge that is being discussed in this thread. Are there in credible websites that you might know where I could look on to further educate myself about neurotransmitters? I would really appreciate it
>
> Thanks : )Maybe this article?
http://www.thorne.com/media/neurotransmitter_precursors.pdfLar
Posted by Larry Hoover on August 19, 2007, at 21:13:49
In reply to Re: How do they measure serotonin., posted by sam123 on August 19, 2007, at 17:10:21
> > I think the assumption that dietary constituents are necessarily fully bioavailable is flawed. Just because a nutrient is swallowed,
>
> So food is not the ideal source for nutrients ?I didn't say that. For a variety of acquired reasons, or inborne genetic vulnerabilities, the nutrients in food may be far less available than a simple analysis of the food content would suggest. Intake does not equal uptake, even under the best of circumstances.
Lar
Posted by sam123 on August 19, 2007, at 22:06:08
In reply to Re: How do they measure serotonin. » sam123, posted by Larry Hoover on August 19, 2007, at 21:13:49
I have spent a lot of money in the last few decades on supps. I did several yrs of NT precursors supps. and came to the conclusion that they did nothing, for me.
I still had depressions just like I did w/o supps.
There is no question a diet deficient on essential aminos will cause depression; so it would seem my diet was supplying enough. This made sence to me as I had figured the amount of aminos in my daily diet and they were plentiful.I do find where there is a lack of a nutrients,
by diet or metabolism, supps do work for me.
Fish oil and some minerals are lacking or deficient in my diet.Folate may have diet and metabolism issues and tests for folate come back low if I do not take folate.
This is the end of the thread.
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