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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by stargazer2 on August 6, 2007, at 8:32:34
I was on a generic form of amphetamine, 5mg, (substitute for Adderall), along with Nardil 45 mg for a couple of weeks. This weekend after seeing my doctor on Friday, we increased the amphet from 5mg to 10 mg. Saturday I took the first dose of 10 mg in the am without any problem. The second dose however was a different story. After about an half hour, I noted my attention to reading improved and then I noted out of the blue my head started to get hot and then a mild but unusual headache began, not too intense but present nonetheless. Immediately,I knew what was happening.
I slowly got up and went and got my BP monitor and my bottle of Nifedipine. My BP was 230/120 or so. Boy was I scared...I took a Nifedipine laid on the bathroom floor and waited for the BP to come down, it took about an hour to go to 200/100 and then gradually over the next two hours went down to 140/80.
The next day my BP was consistency under 70/40, at one time was 60/40 and I was unable to get up and walk for more than a few feet without laying down. I took no meds that night for fear of another reaction.
I paged my doc early on Sunday and got a CB around 5 and told him the whole story, he was very upset. He said to go ahead and take 30 of nardil instead of stopping all at once.
So I have proven despite reading a low dose stimulant at 5 mg was OK for someone with very low BP, it is still risky and potentially life threatening. Just to let you all know anything is possible wihen you combine it with Nardil. It is an unpredictable drug. I wouldn't have been able to manage this at home without my trusty BP monitor and I warn all of the Nardil users to have one just in case. The signs of high BP is somewhat subtle but you can also get odd pains in your throat and your chest, along with a headache but it could be missed without a monitor.
I will not mess with Nardil again so despite my quest to take a stimulant with it for my ADD symptoms I will probably come off it very soon unless the lower dose does something for me in the next few days or weeks.
I am getting very disgusted with trying to find a combination that will help my depression. Coming that close to calling 911 has shown me Nardil can be life threatening, not just a nuisance, although it can be that as well.
I'm happy it works for so many but I have just had an experience I am too scared to risk happening again. Good luck and be careful to those on it.
Stargazer
Posted by Girlnterrupted78 on August 6, 2007, at 10:58:32
In reply to Stimulants with Nardil = HYPERTENSION, posted by stargazer2 on August 6, 2007, at 8:32:34
Thanks for the info, Stargazer. I had been reading about how it was possible and relatively "safe" to combine Nardil with some kind of a stimulant when the pdoc is experienced and savvy. But this shows it's not as safe. Why was the doc upset? I mean, like if it was YOUR fault.. It was his!
I'm currently on 75mgs of Nardil, and in my last visit to my pdoc I asked him for Provigil for daytime sleepiness. He refused. I was upset because I heard a lot of people took it with Nardil. But maybe he was right.
I know Provigil and Adderall are different in that Adderall is an actual amphetamine. But your experience was like a wake up call to realize Nardil is in fact quite dangerous.
Can I ask you a question: Could you describe the headache you had? What part of the head was hurting, what kind of pain was it (severe or mild, intermittent, pounding? etc) and how long did the headache last?
Recently, I had to go to the ER because of what I thought was a hypertensive crisis, which turned out not to be. It was a reaction to upping my Nardil dose to 90mgs, which resulted in a severe, unbearable headache that lasted over an hour. I didn't have a BP monitor, so I had to go just in case.
Anyway, if you could describe the headache and all the feelings associated with the hypertensive crisis, I'd appreciate it. I want to be prepared just in case it ever happens to me.
Thanks
GI78
Posted by stargazer2 on August 6, 2007, at 11:25:53
In reply to Re: Stimulants with Nardil = HYPERTENSION » stargazer2, posted by Girlnterrupted78 on August 6, 2007, at 10:58:32
GI, the first thing i noticed was some discomfort in my throat and then my face felt hot and the headache was not a pounding one but a clear distinct, pain in the back of my head down towards my neck. My viion also as affected as I was readingone minute and then the feeling came over me and I had to stop reading becasue I knew something was happeing. I didn't want to move but I knew instinctively I had to get my BP cuff, take my BP and get to the bottle of Nifedipine(to lower BP in an emergency, given to me by my pdoc) that was upstairs. The wrist monitor pumped up once to the usual 180 or so, and then repumped above 230 to indicate the BP was higher than 180. My BP has been extremely low for a few weeks around 70/40 to 90/60 and if I take it with my manual arm cuff, not the wrist cuff, it is lower.
I called my husband but he didn't hear me. I stayed on the floor until the BP came down to 200 and then I got up, went downstairs and told him what was happening and asked him to call 911 if I passed out or became unresponsive.
My pdoc wasn't mad at me but at the situation I was in given that I had been theone to want to try stimulants with Nardil and had a paper that said you could take 5 mg and I never had a reaction to that, only 10 mg, which we felt would be OK to take. Wrong! We were both scared of this happening.
I may try something other than Nardil since I think I will need a stimulant since I have ADDsymptoms that make my depression resistant to complete resolution. My theory anyway...
So my headache was not a splitting pounding one, more of a neck pain with throat discomfort and vision changes. My cuff was the only thing that could distinquish that the feeling was from hypertension not something else. 230/120-130 is really high, no two ways about it.
Stargazer
Posted by Phillipa on August 6, 2007, at 12:27:28
In reply to Re: Stimulants with Nardil = HYPERTENSION, posted by stargazer2 on August 6, 2007, at 11:25:53
Stargazer I know all the combos you've tried do you have any idea what you will try next? I'm sorry it didn't work out. Love Phillipa
Posted by Jedi on August 7, 2007, at 23:16:06
In reply to Stimulants with Nardil = HYPERTENSION, posted by stargazer2 on August 6, 2007, at 8:32:34
Hi Stargazer,
Many MDs no longer will prescribe sublingual nifedipine just because of the reaction you describe. Low blood pressure is a frequent cause of death. I have never taken amphetamines with Nardil, but I did have a tyramine reaction once. I took the 10mg sublingual nifedipine that was prescribed by my PDOC and headed for the ER. I ended up spending a night in the hospital on IV fluids because the nifedipine reduction in BP lasted longer than the tyramine reaction and my blood pressure was dangerously low. With a BP of 60/40 you probably should have been in the hospital. What dosage of nifedipine did you take? After my incident, I had my PDOC prescribe 5mg instead of ten.
Be Well,
Jedi
> I was on a generic form of amphetamine, 5mg, (substitute for Adderall), along with Nardil 45 mg for a couple of weeks. This weekend after seeing my doctor on Friday, we increased the amphet from 5mg to 10 mg. Saturday I took the first dose of 10 mg in the am without any problem. The second dose however was a different story. After about an half hour, I noted my attention to reading improved and then I noted out of the blue my head started to get hot and then a mild but unusual headache began, not too intense but present nonetheless. Immediately,I knew what was happening.
>
> I slowly got up and went and got my BP monitor and my bottle of Nifedipine. My BP was 230/120 or so. Boy was I scared...I took a Nifedipine laid on the bathroom floor and waited for the BP to come down, it took about an hour to go to 200/100 and then gradually over the next two hours went down to 140/80.
>
> The next day my BP was consistency under 70/40, at one time was 60/40 and I was unable to get up and walk for more than a few feet without laying down. I took no meds that night for fear of another reaction.
>
> I paged my doc early on Sunday and got a CB around 5 and told him the whole story, he was very upset. He said to go ahead and take 30 of nardil instead of stopping all at once.
>
> So I have proven despite reading a low dose stimulant at 5 mg was OK for someone with very low BP, it is still risky and potentially life threatening. Just to let you all know anything is possible wihen you combine it with Nardil. It is an unpredictable drug. I wouldn't have been able to manage this at home without my trusty BP monitor and I warn all of the Nardil users to have one just in case. The signs of high BP is somewhat subtle but you can also get odd pains in your throat and your chest, along with a headache but it could be missed without a monitor.
>
> I will not mess with Nardil again so despite my quest to take a stimulant with it for my ADD symptoms I will probably come off it very soon unless the lower dose does something for me in the next few days or weeks.
>
> I am getting very disgusted with trying to find a combination that will help my depression. Coming that close to calling 911 has shown me Nardil can be life threatening, not just a nuisance, although it can be that as well.
>
> I'm happy it works for so many but I have just had an experience I am too scared to risk happening again. Good luck and be careful to those on it.
>
> Stargazer
Posted by stargazer2 on August 8, 2007, at 9:47:50
In reply to Re: Stimulants with Nardil = HYPERTENSION » stargazer2, posted by Jedi on August 7, 2007, at 23:16:06
Jedi, I took 10 mg Nifedipine and almost took a second dose of it since the BP was not resolving as rapidly as I would have expected it to. I held off since I knew that if I did that, the reaction may have put me in the hospital, so I waited instead. I did not intend to go to the hospital depite my low BP since I was alert and could still take my BP and tell my husband what to do if I got worse. MY usual BP is 80-90/50-60, so low is relative to me.
The dilemma I am in now is deciding to stay on Nardil or switch to something else since I believe I need a stimulant since I do have ADD symptoms along with the depressive symptoms.
Thanks for your concern with my reaction. I had another reaction once before but without the elevation of the BP I just had. IT definately scared me into thinking perhaps another AD may be a better solution. I'm only on Nardil now and have stopped wellbutrin and Abilify until I see my pdoc and discuss next med choices.
Stargazer
Posted by Jedi on August 11, 2007, at 0:11:06
In reply to Re: Stimulants with Nardil = HYPERTENSION, posted by stargazer2 on August 8, 2007, at 9:47:50
> Jedi, I took 10 mg Nifedipine and almost took a second dose of it since the BP was not resolving as rapidly as I would have expected it to. I held off since I knew that if I did that, the reaction may have put me in the hospital, so I waited instead. I did not intend to go to the hospital depite my low BP since I was alert and could still take my BP and tell my husband what to do if I got worse. MY usual BP is 80-90/50-60, so low is relative to me.
...Stargazer,
I remember I almost took a second 10mg cap of nifedipine when my head was exploding from my tryramine hypertensive episode. I'm afraid I might not be here today if I would have.
Jedi
Posted by stargazer2 on August 11, 2007, at 18:35:35
In reply to Re: Stimulants with Nardil = HYPERTENSION » stargazer2, posted by Jedi on August 11, 2007, at 0:11:06
Jedi, Both you and I could have done ourselves in with the Nifedipine and we would not be here to struggle and suffer as we still are (you are still fighting the fight?). So we must have felt there was something to keep going for despite the ongoing battle with the dark forces. If we had wanted to give up, we had our chance. I only hope I can find an answer soon. Sometimes I don't know why I am still fighting, but life despite the depression is still worth living than throwing it all away. I just wish that there was a reason for depression and that once it runs it's course, we can come back with a vengeance and hunger to live again. Are you getting any relief from anything recently?
I know I must have a depressive personality, since as a child I felt depression and my struggle has always been there, it have just gotten worse as I get older. So along with the negatives of getting older, the depression gets worse and more resistent as well. I asked a friend the other day if she ever gets depressed, and she said No, just like that, can you imagine, where we would be it that was our makeup. I would give alot to experience life without depression. It would be a very different world that I would like to be in.
Stargazer
Posted by tecknohed on August 19, 2007, at 18:53:15
In reply to Re: Stimulants with Nardil = HYPERTENSION » stargazer2, posted by Girlnterrupted78 on August 6, 2007, at 10:58:32
> .....But your experience was like a wake up call to realize Nardil is in fact quite dangerous.
I disagree. Its not dangerouse if taken correctly. Its side effects can take over 6 months to diminish so people should be patient before trying to 'tinker around' with it. My low blood pressure lasted a good 6 to 8 months before it stabalised.
Posted by Lamdage on June 15, 2011, at 3:43:29
In reply to Re: Stimulants with Nardil = HYPERTENSION » Girlnterrupted78, posted by tecknohed on August 19, 2007, at 18:53:15
Jedi what did you eat??
Posted by jedi on June 15, 2011, at 19:32:13
In reply to what did you eat?, posted by Lamdage on June 15, 2011, at 3:43:29
> Jedi what did you eat??
It was aged swiss cheese. For some reason I just went brain dead. I can eat Mozzarella and Monterey Jack no problem, so I guess I was thinking white cheese - OK. Actually, I just wasn't thinking! That was about 10 years ago, it has never happened since.
Jedi
This is the end of the thread.
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