![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 7 to 31 of 31. Go back in thread:
Posted by chiron on March 10, 2007, at 18:57:02
In reply to Re: HELP! REALLY struggling any advice?? » Racer, posted by Sandra62 on March 10, 2007, at 15:33:04
I think it was Seroquel that caused akathesia for me & I had to take Xanax to get through it. I would guess that it is the Seroquel because you've said that it gets worse the higher your dose. Some people have paradoxical effects, maybe you are (but that's just my guess).
Posted by Sandra62 on March 10, 2007, at 19:11:16
In reply to Re: HELP! REALLY struggling any advice?? » Racer, posted by Sandra62 on March 10, 2007, at 15:33:04
Thank you chiron for your response. I had to look up what akathesia was.
www.depression.about.com states: Definition: Akathesia is a common side effect associated with the use of anti-psychotic medications (neuroleptics). It is characterized by excessive, usually repetitive, movements such as pacing, foot tapping and rocking. It is often described as a 'feeling that you are going to come out of your own skin" if you don't move.
This sounds like you are right on target with what I'm feeling! Now when you said you took Xanax to get through it did you end up staying on the Seroquel? What was your dosage? What is your diagnosis?
Anyways, my PDOC called. She had done some research and could not find anything that stated that Seroquel can actually cause anxiety when that it is supposed to actually help in that area. I beg to differ because in my own research I've found the above under akathesia, and also a site that said if you experience mood changes such as depression or anxiety when taking Seroquel to contact your doctor immediately. So there has to be others that have had this seemingly paradoxical reaction.
My PDCOC wrote to the pharmaceutical company to inquire about this side-effect and they said they would respond in 24 hours. So she gave me the choice to either take the 300 mg tonight (not to raise the dosage as previously mentioned) and see how I felt tomorrow and to call her, or to stop cold turkey (she said that is okay having only taken 300 mg for 11 days) and return to 10 mg of Zyprexa for a month or so and then to drop back to 5 mg in hopes of advoiding the side-effect she didn't like of muscle rigidity.
So now I have to make a choice. Do I try to stick it out with the Seroquel and hope that it gets better, or run away run away back into the arms of Zyprexa the med that really made me feel better, despite the absolutely annoying weight gain and muscle rigidity.
One thing she is going to have me do is a complete med 'wash out' as soon as I return from a trip in May. She wants to observe me closely so I have to be in the country a phone call away, and will wean me off of everything I'm on except we'll keep the benzo and see exactly what symptoms I present with. She is still not sure I'm Bipolar I or II and she may even be considering that I'm not Bipolar at all as I came to her with that diagnosis from another PDOC and she went with it.
Anyways back to the problem at hand. Do I take the Seroquel tonight or do I switch to Zyprexa. Any votes?
Posted by Phillipa on March 10, 2007, at 19:49:43
In reply to Re: HELP! REALLY struggling any advice?? » Sandra62, posted by Phillipa on March 10, 2007, at 14:21:38
What are the consequences of stopping it cold turkey? Have you tried googling that? Or start another thread and ask specifically that question. I would have to know first before I could make a decision but I know my dose would not be that high. Love Phillipa
Posted by Sandra62 on March 10, 2007, at 19:55:22
In reply to Re: HELP! REALLY struggling any advice?? » Phillipa, posted by Phillipa on March 10, 2007, at 19:49:43
My PDOC seemed to think it was alright to switch right over to 10 mg of Zyprexa. Crazy Meds of course says to wean off of it slowly. I'm leaning towards giving it a couple more nights at 300 mg and seeing if the anxiety goes away. I just don't want to give up the ghost on a med that may in fact be the answer if I just give it more time. It's just that this anxiety is so crippling. Even 1.5 mg of Rivotril (Clonazepam/Klonopin) isn't taking it away which is very unsual. Or should I just drop it and take the tried and true Zyprexa? I am an hour away from bedtime and need to make a decision. ARGHHHH!
Posted by Phillipa on March 10, 2007, at 21:11:16
In reply to Re: HELP! REALLY struggling any advice?? » Phillipa, posted by Sandra62 on March 10, 2007, at 19:55:22
Sandra I think you've given it enough time. You can always go back to it if your doc finds out any more info. So with time a factor and your doc saying it's okay take the zyprexa. And please let me know how you are tomorrow. You have my e-mail don't you? Love Phillipa
Posted by Sandra62 on March 10, 2007, at 21:19:40
In reply to Re: HELP! REALLY struggling any advice?? » Sandra62, posted by Phillipa on March 10, 2007, at 21:11:16
Hi Phillipa, thanks for helping me make this difficult decision. I'm about to take my beloved Zyprexa and then yes, I can always give Seroquel another go. I hope to wake up feeling better tomorrow. Do you mean Babblemail? If I click on your name I have an option to send you something via that. Anyways, I'm signing off for the night. I'll report back tomorrow to see how I'm feeling then. Sandra OXO
Posted by UgottaHaveHope on March 10, 2007, at 22:28:08
In reply to HELP! REALLY struggling any advice??, posted by Sandra62 on March 10, 2007, at 13:39:07
In my opinion, Seroquel is not increasing your anxiety. It is known to make your very groggy, which sort of nails the anxiety. HOWEVER, when taken with other meds, it could have the opposite effect (who knows?). I would say there is a battle going on in your body between the Seroquel and Lexapro.
Please keep us posted on what you decide to do. Michael
Posted by chiron on March 11, 2007, at 3:28:09
In reply to Re: HELP! REALLY struggling any advice?? UPDATE, posted by Sandra62 on March 10, 2007, at 19:11:16
> This sounds like you are right on target with what I'm feeling! Now when you said you took Xanax to get through it did you end up staying on the Seroquel? What was your dosage? What is your diagnosis?
I only went up to 50mg of Seroquel, so it was a much lower dose than what you are on. No, I did not continue on the Seroquel. Antipsychotics have probably been the worse class of meds for me, even though they "should" be good for my agitated depression. I don't normally have an anxiety problem (I think that was the worst time I have ever had anxiety was that akathisia experience). My doctor doesn't know what diagnosis to put me in, so I am probably an outlier.
That's a tough one on the Zyprexa. How much better it made you feel vs. how much weight it made you gain, etc. Or you could try another med.
Posted by ronaldo on March 11, 2007, at 9:17:05
In reply to HELP! REALLY struggling any advice??, posted by Sandra62 on March 10, 2007, at 13:39:07
How long were you on the Zyprexa? How long did it take you to come off it? If you come off Zyprexa too quickly, without a taper, that might cause anxiety even weeks after you have discontinued the Zyprexa. Also how much Zyprexa were you taking? Coming off Zyprexa too quickly gave me anxiety coming off just 5 mg for four years.> I am Bipolar. I was taking Zyprexa and was doing really well on it mood-wise but it made me gain weight, of course, and finally gave me muscle rigidity so my PDOC took me off of it and started me on Seroquel. I'm currently taking 300 mg at night. I also take 100 mg Lamictal, 20 mg of Lexapro, and 1 - 1.5 mg of Rivotril (Clonazepam/Klonopin).
>
> What I'm having trouble with, besides sleeping the day away, is I'm having terrible anxiety. This is new. My PDOC is puzzled because she said that is not a known side-effect of Seroquel, in fact it should have the opposite effect. I'm feeling really scared, unable to relax, even the Rivotril isn't taking the edge off. I'm worried about Seroquel not agreeing with me, and we're running out of options.
>
> I've tried Geodon which didn't do a thing for me, and Abilify is not available here in Costa Rica. I have never tried Lithium, Depakote mind you, but I don't want to gain any more weight. The Seroquel seems to take away my appetite during the day making it hard to force something down, then an hour after taking it at night, if I'm not dead asleep I find myself raiding the fridge. Also I eat first thing in the morning, horrible things like 6 pieces of butter bread in one sitting, then I go back to sleep until noon. It's making me zombified at night, slurring my sleep within 1/2 hour of taking it, unable to read like I love to as the words just start to get blurry and I have to sleep, sleepy and dragged out after sleeping 12 hours or more, then the anxiety creeps in. My PDOC wants me to give it fair trial as I've only been on the 300 mg dosage for 11 days. I'm to call her on Monday to see how I'm doing.
>
> Has anyone been like this with Seroquel only to have it work in the end, or am I headed to yet another failure with a new med. I'm so frustrated, I want to feel better now. Any words of wisdom would be most welcome. What is going on??
Posted by Honore on March 11, 2007, at 11:19:46
In reply to Re: HELP! REALLY struggling any advice?? UPDATE, posted by Sandra62 on March 10, 2007, at 19:11:16
Since your pdoc raised the dose so quickly to try to combat the anxiety, and it didn't help, maybe lowering the dose significantly would give you time to adjust.
That might reduce the sleepiness over a period of a week or two, and also maybe the anxiety.
I dont' know about the anxiety aspect, but I do know of people (myself included, using it for sleep at a low dose) who have adapted and had less daytime sleepiness after a time. Even on much higher doses, this is true. But there's no reason to think you need 300 mg, if it was a dose chosen to reduce anxiety.
Seems possibly counterproductive, actually. Might be much easier to acclimate to a lower dose.
Honore
Posted by gargoyle on March 11, 2007, at 13:10:49
In reply to HELP! REALLY struggling any advice??, posted by Sandra62 on March 10, 2007, at 13:39:07
can't help with specifics - never took drug you mentioned. Have had paradoxical reactions - some of us just react differently than expected. Some good advice in other messages but sounds like you're pretty desperate for immediate help - I suggest that you Call Your Doctor and strongly but affirmatively press for quick response - DO NOT downplay your present fears. DO NOT just stop your meds without more knowledge. Probably need, as advised, to taper dosage unless doc can substitute something to ease the transition. You seem to know you need a change - don't wait - call today, even if it's a weekend. Capital "HELP" and capital "REALLY" in your subject suggest sincere need for quick assistance. Go for it!!!!! Good luck and hang in there!!!!
Posted by Phillipa on March 11, 2007, at 19:19:25
In reply to Re: HELP! REALLY struggling any advice??, posted by gargoyle on March 11, 2007, at 13:10:49
Sandra would you update us so we know you are okay. We all care. Love Phillipa
Posted by Sandra62 on March 11, 2007, at 19:35:07
In reply to Re:Sandra update us Please?????, posted by Phillipa on March 11, 2007, at 19:19:25
Hi Phillipa and Everyone, thanks for your caring responses. I ended up taking the Zyprexa last night and was able to sleep no problem. Had trouble getting up so slept until noon again. But I feel really good today, very energetic and brighter. No anxiety, although I am still taking 1.5 of the Rivotril (Clonazepam/Klonopin). But no anxiety like I was having there. Thank GOD. Thanks for helping me through this. Now I need to watch my diet with this Zyprexa so I don't gain anymore weight. I have recently purchased a treadmill and will be walking on that every morning. Also need to watch my food intake. As for the muscle rigidity my PDOC said to start with 10 mg to stabilize then we'll go down to 5 mg to see if that helps. Otherwise we're going to have to try something else for hypomania.
She wants to do a complete med 'wash out' in a couple of months to see exactly what how my symptoms present. I'll still take the benzo but wean off of everything else. I came to her with another doctor's diagnosis of Bipolar so she wants to see with her own eyes what exactly is up with me. To start from scratch. My most prominent symptom that presents is depression, then rage. I have also had reckless behaviour and overspending. So we'll see if I'm Bipolar or not, and which one, II or I. I suspect II as I have never had delusions. I once heard voices when I was studying for University exams 20 years ago though so who knows. Lots of self-medicating with alcohol and cocaine in my 20's. I wasn't diagnosed with Bipolar until about 2 years ago. I have to wait for the 'wash out' until I'm back from some traveling I have to do over the next couple of months. That way she can keep a close eye on what happens. Should be interesting...anyways, thanks again for listening. It means so much!
Posted by Sandra62 on March 11, 2007, at 19:38:35
In reply to Re:Sandra update us Please????? UPDATE! » Phillipa, posted by Sandra62 on March 11, 2007, at 19:35:07
Oh and I also was drinking heavily three years ago when I had a teaching position full of stress and was only on an antidepressant and Clonazepam which was obviously not helping much. I had incredible rage. Then this year I started drinking again during a stressful time, my parents both passed away this year. I have since only had the one mess up the other day when I tried drinking with the Seroquel and fell flat on my **S. No more of that!
Posted by Phillipa on March 11, 2007, at 21:41:10
In reply to Re:Alcohol, posted by Sandra62 on March 11, 2007, at 19:38:35
Sandra thanks for the update. And yes you can babblemail any time. I'm so glad the zyprexa allowed you to sleep. Just what my new pdoc is doing too a washout of the ad and leaving the benzos as he thinks my primary dx is panic anxiety and that xanax long acting would be a good med for me. Love Phillipa
Posted by Sandra62 on March 11, 2007, at 21:46:23
In reply to Re:Thanks, posted by Phillipa on March 11, 2007, at 21:41:10
Hi Phillipa, OH cool I hope that you discover that Xanax long-acting is the magic elixir for you. So have you been misdiagnosed with other things besides panic disorder? Sounds like you've had a long road to search for complete recovery. Mental illness is so tricky, with all of these meds and finding a balance. I'm looking forward to my 'wash out' and hopefully it shedding some light on the dark corners and bringing out the best that I can be. I was so functional before I was medicated, but dysfunctional at worst. I mean I have two degrees, was a school teacher, a touring musician, I had a 'life', albiet with alot of drama. Now after some blowouts I have had to be medicated but it's killed the side of me I love so much. The Creative Gypsy. *Sigh*. Well may we both have some luck with things soon enough! Ciao!
Posted by polarbear206 on March 12, 2007, at 12:31:18
In reply to HELP! REALLY struggling any advice??, posted by Sandra62 on March 10, 2007, at 13:39:07
> I am Bipolar. I was taking Zyprexa and was doing really well on it mood-wise but it made me gain weight, of course, and finally gave me muscle rigidity so my PDOC took me off of it and started me on Seroquel. I'm currently taking 300 mg at night. I also take 100 mg Lamictal, 20 mg of Lexapro, and 1 - 1.5 mg of Rivotril (Clonazepam/Klonopin).
>
> What I'm having trouble with, besides sleeping the day away, is I'm having terrible anxiety. This is new. My PDOC is puzzled because she said that is not a known side-effect of Seroquel, in fact it should have the opposite effect. I'm feeling really scared, unable to relax, even the Rivotril isn't taking the edge off. I'm worried about Seroquel not agreeing with me, and we're running out of options.
>
> I've tried Geodon which didn't do a thing for me, and Abilify is not available here in Costa Rica. I have never tried Lithium, Depakote mind you, but I don't want to gain any more weight. The Seroquel seems to take away my appetite during the day making it hard to force something down, then an hour after taking it at night, if I'm not dead asleep I find myself raiding the fridge. Also I eat first thing in the morning, horrible things like 6 pieces of butter bread in one sitting, then I go back to sleep until noon. It's making me zombified at night, slurring my sleep within 1/2 hour of taking it, unable to read like I love to as the words just start to get blurry and I have to sleep, sleepy and dragged out after sleeping 12 hours or more, then the anxiety creeps in. My PDOC wants me to give it fair trial as I've only been on the 300 mg dosage for 11 days. I'm to call her on Monday to see how I'm doing.
>
> Has anyone been like this with Seroquel only to have it work in the end, or am I headed to yet another failure with a new med. I'm so frustrated, I want to feel better now. Any words of wisdom would be most welcome. What is going on??Hi,
See my post below to Rj (Lamictal Post)
I sent you a thread last week and I don't know if you saw it. Look under March 2.Polarbear
Posted by Sandra62 on March 12, 2007, at 13:59:45
In reply to Re: HELP! REALLY struggling any advice??, posted by polarbear206 on March 12, 2007, at 12:31:18
Hi Polarbear, I found your post and responded. Thanks! I'm feeling much better back on 10 mg of Zyprexa. I may have come off of it too quickly and was experiencing withdrawal after reading on the Withdrawal forum and seeing how many people took months to get off of it. I only cut down for two weeks. I may give Seroquel another shot sometime down the road. For now I'm sticking with the Zyprexa. I'm traveling this weekend and want to feel well.
Posted by Sandra62 on March 12, 2007, at 22:39:49
In reply to Re: HELP! REALLY struggling any advice?? » polarbear206, posted by Sandra62 on March 12, 2007, at 13:59:45
Just got off the phone with my PDOC who had contacted the pharmacuetical company for Seroquel and they had indeed had reports of anxiety from patients. This was at doses of 600 mg and more. I am super sensitive to antipsychotics so it is not a surprise that I was affected at only 300 mg. Oh well, another one bites the dust. Back to Zyprexa for a couple weeks then it's onwards to another antidote that hopefully works this time! Since I have serious blunting and weight gain from the antipsychotics we're looking at Topamax as being next up. She also mentioned Depakote but I'm not digging the weight gain warnings...sigh...
Posted by Phillipa on March 12, 2007, at 22:42:21
In reply to Re: HELP! REALLY struggling any advice??, posted by Sandra62 on March 12, 2007, at 22:39:49
Sandra seriously? Seroquel at high doses does that? Did they call it a paradoxical reaction? Love Phillipa
Posted by Sandra62 on March 12, 2007, at 22:44:40
In reply to Re: HELP! REALLY struggling any advice?? » Sandra62, posted by Phillipa on March 12, 2007, at 22:42:21
Yes, and no they didn't call it a paradoxical reaction! Good to know I wasn't imagining it though. It was crippling!
Posted by Sandra62 on March 12, 2007, at 22:47:27
In reply to Re: HELP! REALLY struggling any advice?? » Sandra62, posted by Phillipa on March 12, 2007, at 22:42:21
BTW I tried to Babblemail you but it said that it was turned off.
Posted by Phillipa on March 12, 2007, at 22:51:24
In reply to Re: HELP! REALLY struggling any advice?? » Phillipa, posted by Sandra62 on March 12, 2007, at 22:44:40
Sandra your babblemail is off as your name is black. Love Phillipa
Posted by Sandra62 on March 12, 2007, at 22:52:11
In reply to Re: HELP! REALLY struggling any advice?? » Sandra62, posted by Phillipa on March 12, 2007, at 22:51:24
OOps. I'm trying to figure out how to turn it on...
Posted by Phillipa on March 12, 2007, at 22:55:35
In reply to Re: HELP! REALLY struggling any advice??, posted by Sandra62 on March 12, 2007, at 22:52:11
Sandra for yours to be turned on go to registration main board and click yes to babblemail. Love Phillipa
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.