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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by tensor on January 30, 2007, at 15:04:23
In reply to Atypicals for anxiety?, posted by mattye on January 30, 2007, at 14:30:43
So Klonopin works? I would say, stick with it. Can't help you with mood swings though.
>but my doctor says it is not a good long term solution
>My doc reccomended Geodon for my anxiety
This is almost ridiculous.
/Mattias
Posted by linkadge on January 30, 2007, at 15:38:32
In reply to Re: Atypicals for anxiety? » mattye, posted by tensor on January 30, 2007, at 15:04:23
Yeah, anti psychotics are not a long term solution for anxiety. They can also be a bitch to discontinue. A member here Jaroen, also has suffered a long term eye movement disorder.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on January 30, 2007, at 15:39:36
In reply to Re: Atypicals for anxiety?, posted by linkadge on January 30, 2007, at 15:38:32
I meant to say:
A member here Jaroen, also has suffered a long term eye movement disorder from Geodon.
Linkadge
Posted by Bob on January 30, 2007, at 16:24:24
In reply to Re: Atypicals for anxiety?, posted by linkadge on January 30, 2007, at 15:39:36
> I meant to say:
>
> A member here Jaroen, also has suffered a long term eye movement disorder from Geodon.
>
> Linkadge
>Does "long-term" necessarily meant permanent?
Posted by linkadge on January 30, 2007, at 16:34:13
In reply to Re: Atypicals for anxiety? » linkadge, posted by Bob on January 30, 2007, at 16:24:24
Perhaps not. I would need to ask him.
I know he has had the problem for a long time. It could get better.
The point is that what are the risks of clonazepam?
Potential addiction, potential withdrawl. Thats it.
Its relativly safe on the body and on the mind.
If tapering is done slow enough, one won't even notice a withdrawl.
For some people too, benzos induce less cognative impariment than APS.
I can still do math on benzo's, but AP's make things very challanging. On benzo's my whole brain is there, it is just dampened down a litte. On AP's its like parts of my brain are just not there.
Linkadge
Posted by Bob on January 30, 2007, at 19:24:48
In reply to Re: Atypicals for anxiety?, posted by linkadge on January 30, 2007, at 16:34:13
Benzo discontinuation causes quite severe suicidality in me. I know this from at least three different experiences. It took me about 4-6 months to stop Klonopin on two different occasions. Even minute dosage changes that amount to a few wisps of powder affect me quite undeniably. Admittedly, I am definitely not your average patient. I don't even want to imagine what it would be like to take atypicals.
Posted by linkadge on January 30, 2007, at 20:19:10
In reply to Re: Atypicals for anxiety? » linkadge, posted by Bob on January 30, 2007, at 19:24:48
I have a horrable time coming off AP's.
Benzo's were not too much problem for me. I was able to reduce the benzo by taking a mixture of taurine and magnesium.
AP withdrawl didn't make me suicidal, it just messed with my senses.
Linkadge
Posted by Phillipa on January 30, 2007, at 20:22:19
In reply to Re: Atypicals for anxiety? » linkadge, posted by Bob on January 30, 2007, at 19:24:48
Well I for one have taken benzos for over 30years and have varied the ones and the doses a lot without any problems at all. If anxiety in life is down so is my use of benzos. And the or some of the atypicals cause diabetes especially zyprexa. Lawsuit being taken I think And I've seen the vidoe of Jeroen very scarey from geodon. Love Phillipa
Posted by Sebastian on January 30, 2007, at 20:28:45
In reply to Atypicals for anxiety?, posted by mattye on January 30, 2007, at 14:30:43
I took geodon for anxiety, it didn't work. The zyprexa is the only AP that works for my anxiety.
Posted by Sebastian on January 30, 2007, at 20:37:35
In reply to Re: Atypicals for anxiety?, posted by linkadge on January 30, 2007, at 15:39:36
I got blury vision from geodon, it was dose dependant. Now that I'm off it my vision is getting better, not perfect though.
Posted by notfred on January 30, 2007, at 21:55:09
In reply to Re: Atypicals for anxiety? » linkadge, posted by Bob on January 30, 2007, at 19:24:48
"Benzo discontinuation causes quite severe suicidality in me."
I have taken ativan over 20 years, generally I do not take it every day but from time to time I do need to take it every day for a period of time (weeks to months). I have never had a problem tapering down from 3 mgs/day quite quickly.
I have become tolerant to the feel good effects
of atavin but they work as well today, at the same dose as they did 20 years ago, for anxiety.
Posted by mattye on January 30, 2007, at 21:58:33
In reply to Re: Atypicals for anxiety?, posted by linkadge on January 30, 2007, at 16:34:13
My doc put my on klonopin for a month staight to get through the holidays. I was able to discontinue without a problem. Its long half life made the taper easier. It REALLY helped with my mood swings, which always start with anxiety/panic attacks. I was really on a more even keel than just Lexapro alone. Depression feels awful, but it is the anxiety that I feel does serious harm to my body. When I panic I can almost feel the adrenaline dumping into my veins.
Posted by mattye on January 30, 2007, at 22:07:15
In reply to Re: Atypicals for anxiety?, posted by notfred on January 30, 2007, at 21:55:09
I've never gotten a high or feel good effect from benzos. It just feels like someone turned down the volume. Thats all. Is that so wrong?
Matty E
> "Benzo discontinuation causes quite severe suicidality in me."
>
>
> I have taken ativan over 20 years, generally I do not take it every day but from time to time I do need to take it every day for a period of time (weeks to months). I have never had a problem tapering down from 3 mgs/day quite quickly.
> I have become tolerant to the feel good effects
> of atavin but they work as well today, at the same dose as they did 20 years ago, for anxiety.
Posted by Phillipa on January 30, 2007, at 22:19:56
In reply to Re: Atypicals for anxiety?, posted by mattye on January 30, 2007, at 22:07:15
No in my opinion same for me although a different benzo. Love Phillipa
Posted by notfred on January 30, 2007, at 22:28:05
In reply to Re: Atypicals for anxiety?, posted by mattye on January 30, 2007, at 22:07:15
"I've never gotten a high or feel good effect from benzos. It just feels like someone turned down the volume. Thats all. Is that so wrong?"
>Not to me. Who said it was wrong ?
Posted by UGottaHaveHope on January 31, 2007, at 2:30:02
In reply to Re: Atypicals for anxiety? » linkadge, posted by Bob on January 30, 2007, at 16:24:24
Ask your doc for a sample pack, You will know within 30 minutes if it works at all, and a few days if it is going to be good for you. It really hits anxiety hard, but always makes you groggy, but hey all meds have tradeoffs.
Thats hogwash about Klonopin. Its a great drug, and gets a bad rap from ppl who take it for recreational use. Im taking less now than I was 10 years ago (3mg).
Posted by mattye on January 31, 2007, at 11:24:46
In reply to Re: Try Seroquel, posted by UGottaHaveHope on January 31, 2007, at 2:30:02
Yeah 25 mgs of Seroquel at bedtime knocks out my anxiety, but doesn't do much for me during the day. I haven't taken it on a regular basis... just as needed for insomnia. I suppose there is a cumulative effect if I increase dosage and take it daily.
I am concerned about side effects though. I know people who have taken this and it made them really groggy during the day and they gained ALOT of weight... Although I did not gain weight on Remeron and that gives you the munchies like NOTHING else! 25 mgs of Seroquel did not make me as hungry as the Rem.
> Ask your doc for a sample pack, You will know within 30 minutes if it works at all, and a few days if it is going to be good for you. It really hits anxiety hard, but always makes you groggy, but hey all meds have tradeoffs.
>
> Thats hogwash about Klonopin. Its a great drug, and gets a bad rap from ppl who take it for recreational use. Im taking less now than I was 10 years ago (3mg).
Posted by Bob on January 31, 2007, at 13:06:11
In reply to Re: Try Seroquel, posted by UGottaHaveHope on January 31, 2007, at 2:30:02
> Thats hogwash about Klonopin. Its a great drug, and gets a bad rap from ppl who take it for recreational use. Im taking less now than I was 10 years ago (3mg).What's hogwash, specifically?
Posted by UGottaHaveHope on January 31, 2007, at 13:11:03
In reply to Re: Try Seroquel, posted by mattye on January 31, 2007, at 11:24:46
Then consider trying the 100mg tablet.
Not all people gain weight Seroquel, but you might. Who knows? You have to decide what is more important: Feeling less anxious at the risk of a few extra pounds.
Posted by Phillipa on January 31, 2007, at 17:32:51
In reply to Re: Try Seroquel, posted by UGottaHaveHope on January 31, 2007, at 13:11:03
Michael you take klonopin with seroquel? That's a lot of downers in my opinion. Why not pick one or the other? Love Phillipa
Posted by UGottaHaveHope on January 31, 2007, at 18:27:27
In reply to Re: Try Seroquel » UGottaHaveHope, posted by Phillipa on January 31, 2007, at 17:32:51
Well I take Emsam, which is activating. But I might be better on klonopin and Seroquel. It's the anxiety more than depression.
Posted by yxibow on January 31, 2007, at 20:29:18
In reply to Re: Atypicals for anxiety? » Bob, posted by Phillipa on January 30, 2007, at 20:22:19
> Well I for one have taken benzos for over 30years and have varied the ones and the doses a lot without any problems at all. If anxiety in life is down so is my use of benzos. And the or some of the atypicals cause diabetes especially zyprexa. Lawsuit being taken I think And I've seen the vidoe of Jeroen very scarey from geodon. Love Phillipa
You have to realize that the video posted is a rare but unfortunate effect. Also we don't know the complete history of how many typicals or atypicals Jeroen has tried before Geodon, as there is some evidence of cumulative drug dosage, although TD to this date is still not completely understood. Also, while I can completely believe that the video is TD, especially when described as being noticeable by other peers around him, I have yet to hear of any AIMS monitoring of any choices offered to attempt to mitigate the circumstances. At least 1/3 of people lose their TD over time and a significant number never get worse. So it is important to do an AIMS monitoring, baseline and followup any time one makes changes or you'll never actually say, yes, this did something to alleviate it, however little or great. A surprisingly low number of doctors do AIMS tests on patients regularly prescribed neuroleptics. It may seem pointless, but there is a point to it. Its to see that things don't get worse and have a mitigation plan in mind to try different medications like Clozaril and tetrabenazine and sky high doses of BuSpar and other things that have had some positive effects on TD.
Yes, Geodon is a stronger atypical but there are other choices.
The lawsuits in my mind, while may be warranted in some cases, are a typical reaction to the downsides of medication. I'm not speaking for the makers of Zyprexa or Seroquel (which I take), but I think it behooves anyone to have regular physicals and blood tests on any new medications.
Clozaril has been around a lot longer and we know the side effect profile of it, so its not surprising that newer medications have their own issues. To not monitor simple things like kidney, liver, and blood sugar functions during a physical does a disservice to the patient.
At the end of the day, while there are outright damaging things that have been done by medication, such as Thalidomide (which is actually being reintroduced) and the SSRI that preceded Prozac, we are always stuck between wanting the next best thing, yet remembering that the next best thing may have hidden side effects that may not be discovered until later on. Geodon was re-released to the market after extensive QTc assessment, yet Mellaril still remains, albeit a black box, prescribed.
I don't like to be a guinea pig any more than anybody else, but there is always this dichotomy that I hear and that I think too -- gee, what is in Phase III, and then the trials and tribulations of recently approved medications, such as my experience with Lyrica which I unfortunately had to discontinue because it does cause blurry vision in some patients.
Would I choose an atypical as a first line for anxiety -- no, probably not. SSRIs have been out much longer, and benzodiazepines even more and we know the side effects of each (about 15-20 years and 50 years respectively). But some complex disorders may need more than just an SSRI, they may need augmentation with something else.
Still, at the end of the day, its informed consent, and that means knowing the effects, and being informed by your doctor and consenting to treatment, not being passively handed prescriptions. It is and should be a partnership.-- tidings
Posted by Phillipa on January 31, 2007, at 20:44:30
In reply to Re: Try Seroquel » Phillipa, posted by UGottaHaveHope on January 31, 2007, at 18:27:27
Me too which is why I've been watching your response to EMSAM. Will you stick with it do you think? Love Phillipa
Posted by XanyADDam on February 1, 2007, at 3:05:55
In reply to Atypicals for anxiety?, posted by mattye on January 30, 2007, at 14:30:43
> My depression is being well-managed by Lexapro, but I still have significant problems with anxiety. Klonopin helps me a lot, but my doctor says it is not a good long term solution. I, myself, am wary of taking it on a regular basis, because I heard it is a bitch to discontinue.
>
> My doc reccomended Geodon for my anxiety, and I was wondering if anyone here had much success with this or other APs. My anxiety is typically low level, until something sets me off (usually related to my self esteem / BDD). If I have an anxiety attack, I plunge into a black panicky depression that often lasts for days. (This can be interuppted with Klonopin). I also have times of hypomania. These mood swings are probably not significant enough to be bipolar, but overall, I tend to jump back and forth without much in between.
>
> So ... would APs work in my situation? Are they worth the side effect?
>
> Matty ESpeaking from experience, treating anxiety with atypical antipsychotics is no good. The side-effects just aren't worth it, Geodon in particular. Mad akasthisia...it's terrible. If, in your case, your doctor feels that for whatever reason this is the best course of action, suggest Seroquel. It's more or less a sedative, which could theoretically help calm your nerves. Zyprexa is good too, but there's a significant risk of weight gain.
Posted by alienatari on February 1, 2007, at 3:34:11
In reply to Re: Atypicals for anxiety? » Bob, posted by Phillipa on January 30, 2007, at 20:22:19
You know you should try AP's. The risk of diabetes far outways the benefits.
> Well I for one have taken benzos for over 30years and have varied the ones and the doses a lot without any problems at all. If anxiety in life is down so is my use of benzos. And the or some of the atypicals cause diabetes especially zyprexa. Lawsuit being taken I think And I've seen the vidoe of Jeroen very scarey from geodon. Love Phillipa
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