![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 6 to 30 of 30. Go back in thread:
Posted by djmmm on January 27, 2007, at 7:28:34
In reply to Re: The elusive 'Magic Pill', posted by Meri-Tuuli on January 27, 2007, at 3:26:46
> Hey!
>
> > I think meds are the short-term answer (and maybe long-term, for me), but therapy and changing your thought patterns is the long-term approach. Could I be wrong?
>
> No, I don't think so. I agree with you 100%.
>
> Although its not a popular sentiment here on p=babble. I guess people just want to believe that there really is a 'magic pill' out there for them.
>
> Some types of depression/anxiety are purely biological of course, and there's probably a whole spectrum of 'types' of depression/anxiety, but I do think that most bog standard types of depression/anxiety fit exactly into what you are describing.
>
> One thing I do find slightly bewildering is when people continually try to find a pill that will work for them - I wonder when/if it will occur to them that their problems might not ever be cured by a pill and that a different approach may be needed, eg therapy etc.
> Kind regards
>
> Meri
>
>We have all been manipulated by the major drug companies-- through various commercials/advertisements. They have over simplified mental illness, and as a result we EXPECT simple, fast results.
We assume that there is a "magic pill" because we are consistantly force fed info that the next "new" hyped drug IS (ie reboxetine, and more recently, emsam).
Maybe the key to finding the "magic pill" is lowering our expectations. The simple fact is, medication is intended to either mask, or stop the symptoms of depression/anxiety. I think the magic pill is YOU.
I compare antidepressant treatment to treating a cold with cold medication-- pseudofed will stop your sinus congestion, but it wont kill the virus causing the infection-- Antidepressants may make you not depressed, but If you never address the cause of your depression, you never find the cure.
(note: So far I think the only REAL magic pill is Inderal, for PTSD-- since it stops the stress response, and the resulting memorable experience alltogether-- both preventing and correcting post traumatic stress.)
Posted by blueberry1 on January 27, 2007, at 8:14:55
In reply to The elusive 'Magic Pill', posted by UGottaHaveHope on January 27, 2007, at 1:34:06
Mileage varies. Simple as that.
In some studies psychotherapy alone was effective. In some studies it was good with drugs. In some studies with placebo it was ineffective. Placebo alone is effective about 30% of the time. Go figure.
I think if a person has a true brain chemistry error, hormonal chemistry error, protein metabolism error, errors in the genes, etc, then no amount of talking in the world is going to fix that. A drug can either mask it or target it directly, but it is of course a pure experimental venture to find the drug that helps to feel the best.
A person's thought process can influence brain chemistry. Chain the thought process and the chemistry can be fixed. That is, fix the software. But if the hardware is faulty, no amount of software manipulation is going to address that.
Just as mileage varies from pill to pill, it also varies with other alternative forms of treatment.
The magic pill does exist. Just go to remedyfind and see how many people have found it. Not a majority of course, but plenty of people have found their magic pill. Again, mileage varies. One person's magic is another person's poison, and that is on display at remedyfind. As are the successes and failures of psychotherapy.
Posted by Quintal on January 27, 2007, at 9:02:39
In reply to Re: The elusive 'Magic Pill', posted by Meri-Tuuli on January 27, 2007, at 3:26:46
I thought I'd found my magic pill in Klonopin, but I was mistaken. It was a mirage - an illusion that I was healthy and my life was good while I was taking it. In truth everything was decaying but the Klonopin made me oblivious to it - that's why it was so effective. I worry that it's a similar story with other meds I've taken, many of which still have glowing reports on my profile over at RemedyFind that I've never bothered to update after poop-out.
I would never have chosen to quit Klonopin on my own, but now that circumstances have conspired against me I'm doing quite well (with the help of occasional OTC codeine) at 'finding myself' and where I want to take my life. There's been something empowering about realizing I'm now independent of the medical system and it feels good. Psychoanalysis didn't work for me, nor did CBT but I did like counselling. I have no plans to take it up again any time soon because I'm making good progress on my own - just like everyone else. Maybe I got all I needed from counselling if - as is sometimes said - the true purpose of counselling is not only to cure, but to help the client realize there never was an illness in the first place?
Q
Posted by Emme on January 27, 2007, at 9:08:52
In reply to Re: The elusive 'Magic Pill', posted by Meri-Tuuli on January 27, 2007, at 5:05:05
> Oh yes I agree with you, I never said that it was one or the other. I just sometimes wish people would persue therapy and self help with the same vigour that they do with pills.How do you know people are not also diligently pursuing therapy? I never ever ever talk about my talk therapy anywhere on pbabble. That does not mean it does not take place.
> But that said, I guess this isn't the therapy board!
Exactly.
> But it does seem to me that the people seeking pill solutions exclusively are far outnumbered by the people seeking psychologcial help exclusively.
How do you know that? The main board here is a meds board. Therefore, it can be exected that most of the people who find this site are pursuing meds as part of their treatment. This is not the general public. In IRL, I do not know of anyone on meds who wouldn't prefer to not take them if they could do without them.
FWIW, I have no trouble believing that there are people for whom the right meds would be sufficient, just as there are people for whom talk therapy is sufficient. Mood and anxiety disorders are highly individual.
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on January 27, 2007, at 9:49:22
In reply to Re: The elusive 'Magic Pill', posted by Emme on January 27, 2007, at 9:08:52
I don't want this to turn into one of 'those' threads. I think I've covered all your points in the original thread if you read carefully. If you want any more clarification then please do ask.
Kind regards
Meri
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on January 27, 2007, at 10:01:49
In reply to Re: The elusive 'Magic Pill', posted by djmmm on January 27, 2007, at 7:28:34
I completely agree djmmm, good points well made. I like the cold analogy.
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on January 27, 2007, at 10:05:02
In reply to Re: The elusive 'Magic Pill', posted by blueberry1 on January 27, 2007, at 8:14:55
Yep I agree with you too Blueberry.
We are all unique.
Although I'd be weary of remedyfind for reasons like Q's.
Kind regards
MEri
Posted by Emme on January 27, 2007, at 10:11:48
In reply to Re: The elusive 'Magic Pill' » Emme, posted by Meri-Tuuli on January 27, 2007, at 9:49:22
> I don't want this to turn into one of 'those' threads.
I was not trying to turn it into one.
> I think I've covered all your points in the original thread if you read carefully.
I did read it carefully the fist time.
emme
Posted by naughtypuppy on January 27, 2007, at 10:16:39
In reply to Re: The elusive 'Magic Pill', posted by blueberry1 on January 27, 2007, at 8:14:55
> Mileage varies. Simple as that.
>
> In some studies psychotherapy alone was effective. In some studies it was good with drugs. In some studies with placebo it was ineffective. Placebo alone is effective about 30% of the time. Go figure.Perhaps it all depends on what the researcher is trying to prove :)
>
> I think if a person has a true brain chemistry error, hormonal chemistry error, protein metabolism error, errors in the genes, etc, then no amount of talking in the world is going to fix that. A drug can either mask it or target it directly, but it is of course a pure experimental venture to find the drug that helps to feel the best.
>
Talk therapy also contributes to the misconception that "It is all in your head" and your'e just a weak person. You can't talk a person out of their cancer after all. Not that I think it is all a bunch of nonsense, but you have to be receptive to talk therapy.> A person's thought process can influence brain chemistry. Chain the thought process and the chemistry can be fixed. That is, fix the software. But if the hardware is faulty, no amount of software manipulation is going to address that.
>
> Just as mileage varies from pill to pill, it also varies with other alternative forms of treatment.
>
> The magic pill does exist. Just go to remedyfind and see how many people have found it. Not a majority of course, but plenty of people have found their magic pill. Again, mileage varies. One person's magic is another person's poison, and that is on display at remedyfind. As are the successes and failures of psychotherapy.
Posted by Phillipa on January 27, 2007, at 11:26:29
In reply to Re: The elusive 'Magic Pill', posted by naughtypuppy on January 27, 2007, at 10:16:39
I think I started this same topic a year ago in a thread on this board. No there is not a magic pill although some lucky people do respond to a med. But the trial and error of years has got to stop. Love Phillipa
Posted by UgottaHaveHope on January 28, 2007, at 1:31:08
Although just about all of us agree that a "Magic Pill" does not exist, what is the closest thing you have taken to it? I'm not necessarily saying something that healed you, but a med the most certainly had one helpful and clear effect.
I'm going with Seroquel, which I think is a miracle drug for insomnia. I know every med affects everyone differently, but it is hard for me to believe that anyone who is taking Seroquel without any other meds won't be very sleepy very quickly. Yes, it comes with side effects, grogginess, dry mouth, etc., but you will sleep.
Posted by kelv on January 28, 2007, at 2:57:55
In reply to The closest thing to a 'Magic Pill' would be ..., posted by UgottaHaveHope on January 28, 2007, at 1:31:08
A triple monoamine releaser:
DESOXYN: 5,10,15,25mg doses
Perscription Methamphetamine Hcl,
5-HT release +++ (Serotonin)
NE release +++ (Norepinephrine)
DA release ++ (Dopamine)
DA reuptake inhibition
NE reuptake inhibitionWorks for dep/anx, ADD/HD, Narcolepsy, weight reduction, substance use cravings.
The very popular stimulant/sedative combination Pills of the past were magic pills for some as they had a synegistic effect upon each other 1+1=3, especially:
-Desbutal (Desoxyn 15mgs+Nembutal 40mgs)
-Dexamyl (Dexedrine 15mgs+Amytal 60mgs)
-Biphetamine-T (20mgs DL Amphetamine+40mgs Quaalude)-was a very short lived euphoric combo, as was Quaalude itself, 150, 300mg pills.Any pill which which aleviates a persons suffering could be termed a 'magic pill'.
Posted by blueberry1 on January 28, 2007, at 4:17:35
In reply to The closest thing to a 'Magic Pill' would be ..., posted by UgottaHaveHope on January 28, 2007, at 1:31:08
20mg prozac + 5mg zyprexa + 300mg adrafinil
20mg prozac + 5mg zyprexa + 1.5mg xanax
marijuana (quit smoking 2 years ago)
20mg paxil. Should have just stayed with it and not let the doctors say I'm fine now and you don't need it anymore. Things got complicated after that.
Posted by kelv on January 28, 2007, at 7:32:56
In reply to Re: The closest thing to a 'Magic Pill' would be ..., posted by blueberry1 on January 28, 2007, at 4:17:35
Dexamphetamine~30mgs+ 3x daily, alone was fine.
"5-15mgs Dextroamphetamine banishes fatigue and lifts the spirits of the depressed"
To take it to a 'magic pill' status, 10mgs Dex+.5mg Xanax was fairly great:).
XANADEX?-i'm sure would be VERY VERY popular.
Posted by Phillipa on January 28, 2007, at 11:21:07
In reply to Re: The closest thing to a 'Magic Pill' XANADEX? » blueberry1, posted by kelv on January 28, 2007, at 7:32:56
30years ago mepbrobamate 400mg with valium 5mg TID and then three beers a night. Love Phillipa
Posted by kelv on January 28, 2007, at 11:31:52
In reply to Re: The closest thing to a 'Magic Pill' XANADEX?, posted by Phillipa on January 28, 2007, at 11:21:07
> 30years ago mepbrobamate 400mg with valium 5mg TID and then three beers a night. Love Phillipa
Today,~3mgs Xanax daily althought i'll have an attempt at sleep with a few Vodkas+1-4mgs Xanax, didn't work last night, been up all night, it's 6.30am.:S
Posted by djmmm on January 28, 2007, at 11:57:38
In reply to Re: The closest thing to a 'Magic Pill. » UgottaHaveHope, posted by kelv on January 28, 2007, at 2:57:55
> A triple monoamine releaser:
>
> DESOXYN: 5,10,15,25mg doses
>
> Perscription Methamphetamine Hcl,
>
> 5-HT release +++ (Serotonin)
> NE release +++ (Norepinephrine)
> DA release ++ (Dopamine)
> DA reuptake inhibition
> NE reuptake inhibition
>
> Works for dep/anx, ADD/HD, Narcolepsy, weight reduction, substance use cravings.
>
> The very popular stimulant/sedative combination Pills of the past were magic pills for some as they had a synegistic effect upon each other 1+1=3, especially:
>
> -Desbutal (Desoxyn 15mgs+Nembutal 40mgs)
> -Dexamyl (Dexedrine 15mgs+Amytal 60mgs)
> -Biphetamine-T (20mgs DL Amphetamine+40mgs Quaalude)-was a very short lived euphoric combo, as was Quaalude itself, 150, 300mg pills.
>
> Any pill which which aleviates a persons suffering could be termed a 'magic pill'.Please take no offense, but methamphetamine as a magic pill seems a little silly to me. A "magic pill" should "correct" a mental illness. Chronic use of desoxyn is very distructive to your mind and body, and will eventually cause more problems than it was originally indicated for. A magic pill should not be toxic, at any dose-- It should be neuroprotective, universally effective, life-enhancing, and free from side-effects. just a thought :)
Posted by blueberry1 on January 28, 2007, at 14:23:15
In reply to Re: The closest thing to a 'Magic Pill., posted by djmmm on January 28, 2007, at 11:57:38
> Please take no offense, but methamphetamine as a magic pill seems a little silly to me. A "magic pill" should "correct" a mental illness. Chronic use of desoxyn is very distructive to your mind and body, and will eventually cause more problems than it was originally indicated for. A magic pill should not be toxic, at any dose-- It should be neuroprotective, universally effective, life-enhancing, and free from side-effects. just a thought :)Now THAT is a magic pill. If it wasn't hard enough already to find one, that description makes it even harder. :) Neuroprotective. I can think of a few things. Life enhancing. A few things. Free from side effects. Well, a few generally but not universally. Universally effective. Zero.
Posted by Phillipa on January 28, 2007, at 18:29:08
In reply to Re: The closest thing to a 'Magic Pill., posted by blueberry1 on January 28, 2007, at 14:23:15
I agree too. No side effects and the med works. Love Phillipa
Posted by Declan on January 29, 2007, at 4:23:35
In reply to Re: The closest thing to a 'Magic Pill. » blueberry1, posted by Phillipa on January 28, 2007, at 18:29:08
There should be a double blind clinical trial on any existing antidepressant and coca leaf chewed in the traditional manner.
Posted by kelv on January 29, 2007, at 4:39:28
In reply to Re: The closest thing to a 'Magic Pill., posted by djmmm on January 28, 2007, at 11:57:38
"Chronic use of desoxyn is very distructive to your mind and body, and will eventually cause more problems than it was originally indicated for. A magic pill should not be toxic, at any dose-- It should be neuroprotective, universally effective, life-enhancing, and free from side-effects. just a thought" :)
Stims when used at low doses are often neuroprotective,like Nicotine. They are used to treat Alzheimers, brain damage, and other neurological disorders.
People have taken stims for decades, and if not abused are not shown to be neurotoxic.
Posted by djmmm on January 29, 2007, at 12:04:59
In reply to Re: The closest thing to a 'Magic Pill. » djmmm, posted by kelv on January 29, 2007, at 4:39:28
> "Chronic use of desoxyn is very distructive to your mind and body, and will eventually cause more problems than it was originally indicated for. A magic pill should not be toxic, at any dose-- It should be neuroprotective, universally effective, life-enhancing, and free from side-effects. just a thought" :)
>
> Stims when used at low doses are often neuroprotective,like Nicotine. They are used to treat Alzheimers, brain damage, and other neurological disorders.
>
> People have taken stims for decades, and if not abused are not shown to be neurotoxic.
>
>Good point. I suppose i'm assuming that chronic desoxyn use automatically involves escalation of dosage (as most typical stimulants require-- ie cellular adaptive tolerance) I agree that some stimulants are beneficial (I've taken Parnate with great success)
Stimulants used for Alzheimers, and other disorders do not include methamphetamine (deprenyl is metabolized small amounts of the L isomer of methamphetamine-- far different from the D isomer) Other stimulants are far less toxic, or not even toxic. Is Desoxyn still available?
Posted by SLS on January 29, 2007, at 16:23:14
In reply to The closest thing to a 'Magic Pill' would be ..., posted by UgottaHaveHope on January 28, 2007, at 1:31:08
> Although just about all of us agree that a "Magic Pill" does not exist,
I'm one of those pesky people who knows that magic pills do exist. I am absolutely sure of this.
> what is the closest thing you have taken to it?
Parnate + desipramine = 100% remission
Nardil + nortriptyline = currently resonding> I'm not necessarily saying something that healed you, but a med the most certainly had one helpful and clear effect.
My goal is full remission. I think I may be lucky enough to have found my magic pills. We'll see.
Currently:
Nardil 75mg
nortriptyline 150mg
Lamictal 100mg
Topamax 100mg
Abilify 10mg
- Scott
Posted by elanor roosevelt on January 29, 2007, at 21:12:52
In reply to Re: The closest thing to a 'Magic Pill' would be . » UgottaHaveHope, posted by SLS on January 29, 2007, at 16:23:14
what are "those threads"?
Posted by FredPotter on January 29, 2007, at 21:46:08
In reply to Re: The closest thing to a 'Magic Pill' would be . » UgottaHaveHope, posted by SLS on January 29, 2007, at 16:23:14
Hi Scott I sure hope you've found the right combo. I'm still searching. Of course there IS a magic cure for anxiety and depression. It just comes back and bites you. Alcohol. But it shows that in principle it's possible. I expect heroin does quite a good job too
Fred
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.