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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Crazy Horse on January 29, 2007, at 17:21:57
Well, soon i'll be giving the 'Big P' another try. The 2 previous times were a success to an extent. The med works beautifully at eliminating my depression and anxiety, the problem is the severe insomnia and afternoon fatigue. Now, i'll admit i think part of the problem was going to high with the dose (150-160 mgs.) I'm thinking this was a large portion of the side effects, and i plan to stay around the 60 mg. range this time.
Any advice, suggestions, and questions are very much encouraged. Thank you.
-Monte
Posted by Iansf on January 29, 2007, at 18:08:22
In reply to Third time (on Parnate) a Charm??, posted by Crazy Horse on January 29, 2007, at 17:21:57
> Well, soon i'll be giving the 'Big P' another try. the problem is the severe insomnia and afternoon fatigue.
> Any advice, suggestions, and questions are very much encouraged. Thank you.
>Monte,
I don't know how long you persisted with Parnate, but when I took it I found the insomnia and afternoon fatigue (actually more like narcolepsy in my case - a very abrupt plunge into extreme sleepiness) disappeared after about a month. Suddenly one night I was able to fall asleep and the next day I had no problem come mid afternoon. From that point on, I had no side effect problems at all. If it weren't for persistent sinus problems that necessitate frequent decongestant use, I'd be on Parnate today (presuming it didn't poop out at some point).John
Posted by halcyondaze on January 29, 2007, at 18:26:34
In reply to Third time (on Parnate) a Charm??, posted by Crazy Horse on January 29, 2007, at 17:21:57
Did you ever try augmenting with low-dose Adderall or Dexedrine to avoid daytime drowsiness?
Posted by NYCguy on January 29, 2007, at 18:49:52
In reply to Third time (on Parnate) a Charm??, posted by Crazy Horse on January 29, 2007, at 17:21:57
Good luck Monte! I'm on my 5th day of Parnate and so far, so good. I do feel that fatigue a little bit and it is annoying.
Please keep us posted on your progress!
Posted by Crazy Horse on January 29, 2007, at 19:11:15
In reply to Re: Third time (on Parnate) a Charm??, posted by Iansf on January 29, 2007, at 18:08:22
> > Well, soon i'll be giving the 'Big P' another try. the problem is the severe insomnia and afternoon fatigue.
> > Any advice, suggestions, and questions are very much encouraged. Thank you.
> >
>
> Monte,
> I don't know how long you persisted with Parnate, but when I took it I found the insomnia and afternoon fatigue (actually more like narcolepsy in my case - a very abrupt plunge into extreme sleepiness) disappeared after about a month. Suddenly one night I was able to fall asleep and the next day I had no problem come mid afternoon. From that point on, I had no side effect problems at all. If it weren't for persistent sinus problems that necessitate frequent decongestant use, I'd be on Parnate today (presuming it didn't poop out at some point).
>
> John
>
> I was on it for about 4 mos. John, and the side effects didn't get better, but i think because of the high dose i was on.-Monte
>
>
Posted by Crazy Horse on January 29, 2007, at 19:13:15
In reply to Re: Third time (on Parnate) a Charm??, posted by halcyondaze on January 29, 2007, at 18:26:34
> Did you ever try augmenting with low-dose Adderall or Dexedrine to avoid daytime drowsiness?
Is Adderall a stimulant? My Pdoc won't do stimulants.
-Monte
Posted by Crazy Horse on January 29, 2007, at 19:14:46
In reply to Re: Third time (on Parnate) a Charm??, posted by NYCguy on January 29, 2007, at 18:49:52
> Good luck Monte! I'm on my 5th day of Parnate and so far, so good. I do feel that fatigue a little bit and it is annoying.
>
> Please keep us posted on your progress!Thank you, i most definitely will.
-Monte
Posted by halcyondaze on January 29, 2007, at 19:44:29
In reply to Re: Third time (on Parnate) a Charm?? » halcyondaze, posted by Crazy Horse on January 29, 2007, at 19:13:15
> > Did you ever try augmenting with low-dose Adderall or Dexedrine to avoid daytime drowsiness?
>
> Is Adderall a stimulant? My Pdoc won't do stimulants.
>
> -MonteWhy not? At all or with you personally? I know that I can't take stims because of my previous amphetamine addiction but I've never met a doctor who won't Rx an entire class of drugs to any patient.
Yes, it is a stimulant (d,l-amphetamine).
Posted by Phillipa on January 29, 2007, at 21:02:42
In reply to Re: Third time (on Parnate) a Charm??, posted by halcyondaze on January 29, 2007, at 19:44:29
Not familiar with Parnate but could providgil be taken with Parnate ? Just a suggestion. Monte hang in there. Love Phillipa
Posted by naughtypuppy on January 30, 2007, at 8:54:47
In reply to Third time (on Parnate) a Charm??, posted by Crazy Horse on January 29, 2007, at 17:21:57
I wish you the best of luck. I found it the best med by far, but it didn't work for me the second time.
Posted by Crazy Horse on January 30, 2007, at 11:35:44
In reply to Re: Third time (on Parnate) a Charm??, posted by halcyondaze on January 29, 2007, at 19:44:29
> > > Did you ever try augmenting with low-dose Adderall or Dexedrine to avoid daytime drowsiness?
> >
> > Is Adderall a stimulant? My Pdoc won't do stimulants.
> >
> > -Monte
>
> Why not? At all or with you personally? I know that I can't take stims because of my previous amphetamine addiction but I've never met a doctor who won't Rx an entire class of drugs to any patient.
>
> Yes, it is a stimulant (d,l-amphetamine).He doesn't prescribe them at all. He says there are very addictive..personally i think he's being ridiculous, if they work they should be utilized!
-Monte
Posted by halcyondaze on January 30, 2007, at 12:26:00
In reply to Re: Third time (on Parnate) a Charm?? » halcyondaze, posted by Crazy Horse on January 30, 2007, at 11:35:44
Maybe you should consider a new doctor. I think an absolute ban on an entire class of drugs is absurd. I know that I would never be prescribed a stimulant, given my history - and given that Parnate itself is enough of a stimulant for me - but my doctor was willing to prescribe Halcion for sleep despite previous benzo abuse.
What about Provigil? It seems like you need something activating with the Parnate if you're having daytime sleepiness.
Posted by Crazy Horse on January 30, 2007, at 14:11:04
In reply to Re: Third time (on Parnate) a Charm??, posted by halcyondaze on January 30, 2007, at 12:26:00
> Maybe you should consider a new doctor. I think an absolute ban on an entire class of drugs is absurd. I know that I would never be prescribed a stimulant, given my history - and given that Parnate itself is enough of a stimulant for me - but my doctor was willing to prescribe Halcion for sleep despite previous benzo abuse.
>
> What about Provigil? It seems like you need something activating with the Parnate if you're having daytime sleepiness.I live in a small town, so pdoc choices here are limited, and i do have the best one here. I do think he would allow provigal.
Posted by ed_uk on January 30, 2007, at 14:36:49
In reply to Re: Third time (on Parnate) a Charm?? » halcyondaze, posted by Crazy Horse on January 30, 2007, at 14:11:04
Hi
>change pdoc
I don't think you should change your pdoc at this point, many pdocs would refuse to prescribe Parnate!
>60mg per day
Don't start your Parnate trial with set ideas about what dose you will end up taking! You need to 'experiment' to find out. For all you know 10mg twice a day might be enough! On the other hand you might need 60mg.
Regards
Ed
Posted by willyee on January 30, 2007, at 15:13:42
In reply to Third time (on Parnate) a Charm??, posted by Crazy Horse on January 29, 2007, at 17:21:57
Its contradicted,and i imagine bad for some?
However simple caffiene tabs,at ur local store,usualy 250 mg no other active ingredients will help give a lift,remebering at this point ur not simply taking caffiene,so youre not gonna be hyper etc,rather more likly youll barly notice it and hopefuly itll be enough to slide you past the slumber.
Again i know what a pure caffiene tab would feel like,basic hell,anxiety and hell,but in the midst of a parnate induced fatique,the caffiene takes on what seems to be 5 percent of its power,and for me when im lucky is just enough to yank me up and pull me out.
Having used both id choose the caffiene over amphetmaine any day,the caffiene even when it helps is over ridden in effect by parnate,and adds very little psycho stimulant feel,where as amphematine seems to clash with parnate,and create what one would imagine,a maniac state.
I know caffiene is contradicted,and again im just sharing,not recomending,but i have used caffiene tabs along with parnate for almost 2 years now,with no ill effect,where as the very short trial of parnate & amphetamine sent me maniac in only a week or so,i was out there,and then parnate seemed to actualy enhance the amhphetamines chrash as well.
Perhaps im just tolerant to caffiene?But i remeber times when the addition of caffiene was the only thing i could use to get me out of a deep resistant hole and back to daily normal living.
Why the caffiene in soda or other forms does not work the same way,again i dont know,but it has to be for me in the tablet form.
Posted by Crazy Horse on January 30, 2007, at 16:07:17
In reply to Re: Third time (on Parnate) a Charm?? » Crazy Horse, posted by ed_uk on January 30, 2007, at 14:36:49
> Hi
>
> >change pdoc
>
> I don't think you should change your pdoc at this point, many pdocs would refuse to prescribe Parnate!
>
> >60mg per day
>
> Don't start your Parnate trial with set ideas about what dose you will end up taking! You need to 'experiment' to find out. For all you know 10mg twice a day might be enough! On the other hand you might need 60mg.
>
> Regards
>
> Ed
>
> Thanks Ed, good solid advice as always :).-Monte
Posted by Crazy Horse on January 31, 2007, at 12:36:44
In reply to Re: Third time (on Parnate) a Charm??, posted by willyee on January 30, 2007, at 15:13:42
> Its contradicted,and i imagine bad for some?
>
> However simple caffiene tabs,at ur local store,usualy 250 mg no other active ingredients will help give a lift,remebering at this point ur not simply taking caffiene,so youre not gonna be hyper etc,rather more likly youll barly notice it and hopefuly itll be enough to slide you past the slumber.
>
> Again i know what a pure caffiene tab would feel like,basic hell,anxiety and hell,but in the midst of a parnate induced fatique,the caffiene takes on what seems to be 5 percent of its power,and for me when im lucky is just enough to yank me up and pull me out.
>
> Having used both id choose the caffiene over amphetmaine any day,the caffiene even when it helps is over ridden in effect by parnate,and adds very little psycho stimulant feel,where as amphematine seems to clash with parnate,and create what one would imagine,a maniac state.
>
> I know caffiene is contradicted,and again im just sharing,not recomending,but i have used caffiene tabs along with parnate for almost 2 years now,with no ill effect,where as the very short trial of parnate & amphetamine sent me maniac in only a week or so,i was out there,and then parnate seemed to actualy enhance the amhphetamines chrash as well.
>
> Perhaps im just tolerant to caffiene?But i remeber times when the addition of caffiene was the only thing i could use to get me out of a deep resistant hole and back to daily normal living.
>
> Why the caffiene in soda or other forms does not work the same way,again i dont know,but it has to be for me in the tablet form.Thanks Willyee, I'll give it a try.
Also, do you think my severe insomnia and afternoon fatigue were directly related to the high dose i was on (160 mgs)? Maybe a lower dose in the 60-80 mg. range will produce less severe side effects? Please let me know what you think.
-Monte
Posted by willyee on January 31, 2007, at 13:32:27
In reply to Re: Third time (on Parnate) a Charm?? » willyee, posted by Crazy Horse on January 31, 2007, at 12:36:44
Id say you have it right on the money.Parnate is likly to cause daytime fatigue,and nightime stimulation.
Its almost as if around 10 pm or so the drug decides to work.I say this because along with the insomnia i notice that i aside actualy feel ok,and if it were say noon instead id actualy be doing stuff productivly.However banging weights around at 11 pm isnt ideal.
Personaly i found once i go above 80 mg,the dose doesent matter much,so i never go more than 120 mg.
Also as important,if not more,is remebering that its not just the dose,the dose range in a day doesent seem to be no where as dangerous as the dose increment,i.e 30 mg at a time,50 TOPS for myself.
Its upon taking the dose is when the danger seems to lie,as far as increments go,i can 30 mg increment up to prob 200,just again wouldent do any better,its either 80,or a dose between 80 and 120.
With the insomnia,you wont wanna hear this,it goes for myself too,but a big part would be to be more active in the day since depression is somewhat undercontrol now.Try to have as active day as possable.
I wouldent fight naps too much,if u need to sleep,then u do,perhaps however time your naps and keep them pretained to maybe one hour?I notice ill sleep better letting myself take that hour nap then if i fought it off,also if i take it then i feel good in the late pm,as opposed to tired,and off centered if i had fought it.
All in all chances are you will have to accept some insomnia,meaning you wont be turning in when you want too.A good idea is too try and endure it,find something to do at this time opposed to start looking at the clock and worrying about insomnia.
Also i take a 7pm dose vs the recomended "no later than 3pm dose" simply because it works better for me.
My sleep isnt ideal,but its far from that off the med and dealing with depression too,so i accept it.
Also last dont hestitate or feel guilty using sleep aids as you know youre using them to ward a side effect,you know the saying no magic pill.If it handled depression,and landed a good nights sleep,it would be awfully close.
Unfortantly its like chess,and we have to play,and i hate to use that word with mind altering drugs,but we do have to in a sense PLAY with these meds to find what best suites us.
I waited and counted on my doc,and had i never stopped,well this post wouldent exsist,and i truly believe that from my soul.
Good luck keep us informed.P.s I mentioned in another post,i once used Bacoflen,which in lamons terms works on gaba b as does ghb,opposed to benzos which are harder to use for sleep.Might wanna look into bacoflen on google,i know i doubted my friend,but like he said it knocked me out cold.
Posted by Crazy Horse on January 31, 2007, at 14:33:52
In reply to Re: Third time (on Parnate) a Charm??, posted by willyee on January 31, 2007, at 13:32:27
Thanks for the good advice/information Willyee. I'll take all i can get.
-Monte
Posted by tessellated on January 31, 2007, at 15:42:39
In reply to Re: Third time (on Parnate) a Charm?? » willyee, posted by Crazy Horse on January 31, 2007, at 14:33:52
CH,
Curiously, upon browsing wiki's listing on provigil it was very specific about not combining it with MAOI's.I've done it, and found it, as they said, highly synergistic.
But not on my BP, nor heart rate. I lowered both doses, as I did similarly with wellbutrin and parnate, another contraindication.I'm only a thirtysomething, and never had a hypertensive reaction, but mania did come up. Now I'm supposedly bipolar-great!.
So as there are no studies I doubt the doc will co-prescribe, even though psychophamacologists do coprescribe amphetamines w/parnate. I don't think the jury is out on what provigil does, let alone to the cardio/sympathic systems.
It works like crazy, but exacerbates the 11pm, time to get to work mentality.
I'm back on provigil solo, scared and tired of the parnate rollercoaster.
best,
l8
Posted by Crazy Horse on January 31, 2007, at 17:13:32
In reply to Re: Third time (on Parnate) a Charm??-provigil, posted by tessellated on January 31, 2007, at 15:42:39
> CH,
> Curiously, upon browsing wiki's listing on provigil it was very specific about not combining it with MAOI's.
>
> I've done it, and found it, as they said, highly synergistic.
> But not on my BP, nor heart rate. I lowered both doses, as I did similarly with wellbutrin and parnate, another contraindication.
>
> I'm only a thirtysomething, and never had a hypertensive reaction, but mania did come up. Now I'm supposedly bipolar-great!.
>
> So as there are no studies I doubt the doc will co-prescribe, even though psychophamacologists do coprescribe amphetamines w/parnate. I don't think the jury is out on what provigil does, let alone to the cardio/sympathic systems.
>
> It works like crazy, but exacerbates the 11pm, time to get to work mentality.
>
> I'm back on provigil solo, scared and tired of the parnate rollercoaster.
>
> best,
> l8Still, although it has it's down side, NOTHING makes me feel better than Parnate. I have combined provigal with Parnate and had no problems. Despite what they say, i think it's safer than combining 'real' amphetimines w/parnate.
-Monte
Posted by willyee on January 31, 2007, at 19:31:06
In reply to Re: Third time (on Parnate) a Charm??-provigil » tessellated, posted by Crazy Horse on January 31, 2007, at 17:13:32
"Still, although it has it's down side, NOTHING makes me feel better than Parnate. I have combined provigal with Parnate and had no problems. Despite what they say, i think it's safer than combining 'real' amphetimines w/parnate.
-Monte "
Agree.Perhaps on a short term basis,or incare treatment,or a maoi specialist who has extensive experiance.HOWEVER i have tested the maoi warnings,not by spite,at times stupidity and sheer despair,but have.Some of the MUCH fewer dangers i encountered were just that,the amphet/parnate combos as recomended on the famous pubmed abstract.
Now im sure there are the few who can simply due this,individuality can be like magic,however i believe this combo can land most people in a total maniac state,from there to ER at least if lucky,and not a roof top thinking there superman.
FYI: Lets not forget,the only place i believe you will find actual information that this was done was on those pubmed abstracts,and on them not only was the patient in a hospital setting,the docter doing this was obviously familiar with maois.
Id avoid maoi/amphem combos at all costs if possable.
I also did the provigil/parnate combo and it dident help much at all.Still advocate pure caffiene over it,which is cheaper.
Also and this is just a spew,molcimide,a reversable as most know maoi,i have used mid parnate doses,alone,not dosed concimently,and it had similiar stimulant effects as caffiene did.
Just a thought.
This is the end of the thread.
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