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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 65 to 89 of 89. Go back in thread:
Posted by Quintal on January 4, 2007, at 3:59:17
In reply to Re: Asperger's Syndrome test results.............., posted by tessellated on January 3, 2007, at 23:04:29
Here is a videos by the same guy on selective mutism. I was selectively mute at school since around the age of 13. The part on delayed sleep phase syndrome also has resonance. I can't sleep until early morning. I'm notorious for being a 'night owl'. There's far too much associated with Asperger's Syndrome and its attendant problems that describe me so well for this to simply be a naturalistic fallacy.
Do other people on the autism spectrum here have these problems?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBvSsaP2CEU
Q
Posted by Poet on January 4, 2007, at 10:35:20
In reply to Re: Asperger's Syndrome test results.............. » Quintal, posted by Phillipa on January 3, 2007, at 18:32:12
For awhile Dr. Clueless was convinced I had many traits of someone with Asperger's. My therapist thinks I can't interpret facial expressions.
Systemizing Quotient 13 (low)
Empathy 20 (low) *Most people with Asperger's or high function autism score about 20
Autism Spectrum Quotient 28 above average (Asperger average 35)
Mind in the Eyes 23 (under 22 find this difficult)Damn they may be right, but not completely.
Poet
Posted by ramsea on January 5, 2007, at 7:36:11
In reply to Re: Asperger's Syndrome test results.............. » ramsea, posted by Quintal on January 3, 2007, at 11:46:26
Interesting links, Quintal.
About the facial expressions, yes. It is entirely possible for someone with AS and a normal to gifted intelligence to become adept at the meaning of facial expressions.
Some aspies are notable for their flat affect and inability to maintain eye contact; some actually swing the other way, and like myself, make such a study of it that we are extremely expressive.
Some might say we gesticulate and express a little too much--perhaps since we have gone out of our way to learn the art of expression rather than getting it naturally we miss some aspects of the game. We doth protest too much (or too little as the case may be). But we pass for normal.
Several members of my family have AS, so in my case it seems to be a genetic thing. We don't express our AS identically though at all. For example, my son and father are "classic" AS "types", being engineers and computer techies, while I--an unusual female AS---am obsessed with health, poetry and art.
My father is quite flat in expression and doesn't maintain good eye contact--but I am the opposite. At an early age I took up the study of how to fit in and make a good impression. I was always different and the odd one out. Childhood was a difficult time for me. I was also very clumsy to the point of being made fun of a lot. I read countless books (as a child I spent most of my free time in the library) on how to be a popular girl, how to make friends, look good, and get people to like you. It was one of my obsessions. Still is, really. I am a self-help addict.
One thing that is very difficult is to get diagnosed with AS as an adult. It is possible for a person to have many of the traits, and even to have "qualified" for the diagnosis at some point earlier in life, but to adapt in sufficient ways as to make diagnosis no longer possible.
Even if an adult is suffering from the negative aspects of AS it is still difficult to get diagnosed as an adult. Many of us are diagnosed with other disorders, everything from Major Depression to borderline personality to alcoholism to ADD to schizophrenia, and so on.
A person with AS is just as likely as the rest of the population to have any of the other disoders, of course. In my case, I am "co-morbid" with both AS and bipolar, and I guess also alcoholism and PTSD. I have always had a lot of depression and anxiety, which is common in aspies. But I'm sure you know that AS isn't a mental illness, it is a neurological condition. There is no medicine as such for dealing with it, though individual symptoms may be dealt with using meds.
There are wasy to learn to cope with the differences we have from neuro-typicals and even to turn some aspects of it into advantages.
Tony Atwood and Lorna Wing Publishers have a lot of good books on AS--it's a good starting place for reading. It's harder to be diagnosed as an adult with AS in the UK than it is in the US--where it is also hard. So if you self-diagnose, you can benefit from all the research and knowledge, but not receive NHS help or benefits from the State.Any other questions, I'd be happy to answer. ramsea
Posted by zenhussy on January 5, 2007, at 12:27:49
In reply to Re: Asperger's Syndrome?, posted by Quintal on December 31, 2006, at 16:10:50
Systemizing----51..........51 - 80 is very high (three times as many people with Asperger Syndrome score in this range, compared to typical men, and *almost no women score in this range*)
Empathy----52..........average/high
Autism----17..........average
Mind in the Eyes----24..........A typical score is in the range 22-30.hmmmm....
Posted by ed_uk on January 6, 2007, at 14:00:31
In reply to Re: Asperger's Syndrome test results.............. » ed_uk, posted by Quintal on January 1, 2007, at 18:08:11
Hi Q
>I'm curious as to what *is* actually 'wrong' with me though and I'm exploring possibilities.
Well......I think you're extremely intelligent, although that's not a disorder :) What are the symptoms which cause you the most problems?
>How to explain high scores on the 'Mind in the eyes' test then? I'm guessing it has something to do with having a good visual memory? Even so, why is it that I don't always get obvious social cues until long after the event if don't have ADHD? Confusing.
I suppose you were able to analyse the photographs intelectually. Perhaps the problem is that you don't repond to other people's facial expressions emotionally?
Regards
Ed
Posted by ed_uk on January 6, 2007, at 14:01:50
In reply to Types of Memory » ed_uk, posted by Quintal on January 1, 2007, at 18:21:09
Hi Q
I can't really visualise anything. I suppose I remember words rather than pictures.
Ed
Posted by ed_uk on January 6, 2007, at 14:02:39
In reply to Re: Asperger's Syndrome test results.............. » Declan, posted by Quintal on January 2, 2007, at 11:42:22
Hi Q
I think Declan was blocked for making a political comment! I don't think there is anything wrong with his email :)
Ed
Posted by Quintal on January 6, 2007, at 16:21:33
In reply to Re: Asperger's Syndrome test results.............. » Quintal, posted by ed_uk on January 6, 2007, at 14:00:31
>What are the symptoms which cause you the most problems?
Hard to specify. My problems seem to stem from being vaguely disconnected from the rest of the human race in some way ;-)
I can perform well in debates and arguments but when it comes to ordinary conversation I'm totally lost. I just don't 'get' what's going on or what's expected of me. I reckon that's why the last pdoc thinks there's nothing wrong with me - since I can stand my ground very well in a clinical setting which is the only place he sees me. The psychiatric nurses that have visited me at home over the years had a different opinion though.
>I suppose you were able to analyse the photographs intellectually. Perhaps the problem is that you don't repond to other people's facial expressions emotionally?
You're probably right there. I wonder why? Do facial expressional alter the feelings of 'normal' people? It's not that I don't care about other people but, as you suggest, I just don't seem to respond properly at the time.
Q
Posted by Quintal on January 6, 2007, at 16:24:19
In reply to Re: Asperger's Syndrome test results.............. » Quintal, posted by ed_uk on January 6, 2007, at 14:02:39
>I think Declan was blocked for making a political comment! I don't think there is anything wrong with his email :)
I thought he might have been. I saw in admin that people get the email error message when trying to babble someone that has been blocked. How long has he been blocked for? Did he say something obscene? That doesn't sound like Declan. I'll check the archives.
Q
Posted by Quintal on January 6, 2007, at 16:31:41
In reply to Re: Asperger's Syndrome test results.............. » ed_uk, posted by Quintal on January 6, 2007, at 16:24:19
Yes, I see Declan was blocked because Dr.Bob felt he had made an uncivil comment about arabs in Iraq. Should be back any day now.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/poli/20061123/msgs/718271.html
Q
Posted by ed_uk on January 6, 2007, at 17:00:05
In reply to Re: Asperger's Syndrome test results.............. » ed_uk, posted by Quintal on January 6, 2007, at 16:21:33
Hi Q
>My problems seem to stem from being vaguely disconnected from the rest of the human race in some way ;-)
Have you been able to make friends? Or do you prefer to be alone? I assume you're not a fan of 'small talk' :)
>You're probably right there. I wonder why? Do facial expressional alter the feelings of 'normal' people?
Yes, I think people do react emotionally to other people's expressions eg. if they detected in someone's expression that they were uncomfortable it might make them uncomfortable too.
Regards
Ed
Posted by Quintal on January 6, 2007, at 17:27:02
In reply to Re: Asperger's Syndrome test results.............. » Quintal, posted by ed_uk on January 6, 2007, at 17:00:05
>Have you been able to make friends?
I have tried to make friends and others have tried to make friends with me but it never works out.
>Or do you prefer to be alone?
Yes, I like being alone. People tend to irritate me.
>I assume you're not a fan of 'small talk' :)
No! It's my worst nightmare. It's as though conversation is a dance - there's a rhythm to it and I have no sense of rhythm. Conversation is clumsy at best and often just falls apart despite my best attempts.
Q
Posted by ed_uk on January 6, 2007, at 19:21:13
In reply to Re: Asperger's Syndrome test results.............. » ed_uk, posted by Quintal on January 6, 2007, at 17:27:02
Hi Q
>I have tried to make friends and others have tried to make friends with me but it never works out.
Never? What about a girlfriend?
>People tend to irritate me.
Oh dear!
Ed
Posted by Quintal on January 6, 2007, at 22:23:23
In reply to Re: Asperger's Syndrome test results.............. » Quintal, posted by ed_uk on January 6, 2007, at 19:21:13
>Never?
No, I don't keep acquaintances for long.
>What about a girlfriend?
I had a boyfriend for about a month, that's all!
Q
Posted by ed_uk on January 7, 2007, at 8:44:01
In reply to Re: Asperger's Syndrome test results.............. » ed_uk, posted by Quintal on January 6, 2007, at 22:23:23
Hi Q
>I had a boyfriend for about a month, that's all!
I'm sorry that it didn't work out. Do you think you will meet someone else?
Ed
Posted by Quintal on January 9, 2007, at 12:56:51
In reply to Re: Asperger's Syndrome test results.............. » Quintal, posted by ed_uk on January 7, 2007, at 8:44:01
>I'm sorry that it didn't work out. Do you think you will meet someone else?
Unlikely in the near future given my social anxiety and agoraphobia. I don't think I would make a very good partner in any case being on the autistic spectrum and all.
Q
Posted by ed_uk on January 9, 2007, at 13:35:58
In reply to Re: Asperger's Syndrome test results.............. » ed_uk, posted by Quintal on January 9, 2007, at 12:56:51
Oh well, who knows what the future holds?
Ed
Posted by Quintal on January 9, 2007, at 13:41:54
In reply to Re: Asperger's Syndrome test results.............., posted by ramsea on January 5, 2007, at 7:36:11
Sorry for ignoring your post ramsea, it was very insightful.
>Some aspies are notable for their flat affect and inability to maintain eye contact; some actually swing the other way, and like myself, make such a study of it that we are extremely expressive.
I tend to talk with my hands and hold eye contact far too long - sometimes I think people feel intimidated but I started doing that after reading about body language and eye contact and also after being criticised for looking at the floor or turning away while talking to people. I don't really use it properly to regulate converastion etc.
>Some aspies are notable for their flat affect and inability to maintain eye contact; some actually swing the other way, and like myself, make such a study of it that we are extremely expressive.
Me too, except I'm more interested in literature at the moment. There was a time a few years ago when all I read were science and medical textbooks. How old were you all when you were diagnosed if you don't mind me asking?
>At an early age I took up the study of how to fit in and make a good impression. I was always different and the odd one out. Childhood was a difficult time for me. I was also very clumsy to the point of being made fun of a lot. I read countless books (as a child I spent most of my free time in the library) on how to be a popular girl, how to make friends, look good, and get people to like you. It was one of my obsessions. Still is, really. I am a self-help addict.
That sounds familiar. I spent all my time in the school library too. My book shelves are filled with titles such as "How to make friends and influence people", "How to make people like you", "How to talk to anyone", "Neuro-linguistic programming for dummies".
>One thing that is very difficult is to get diagnosed with AS as an adult. It is possible for a person to have many of the traits, and even to have "qualified" for the diagnosis at some point earlier in life, but to adapt in sufficient ways as to make diagnosis no longer possible.
That was exactly the question I was going to ask. I worry that I've learned so much over the last five years that I would have to regress slightly to give the impression that I was on the autistic spectrum. I would hope that experts used to dealing with autistic spectrum people would be able to spot subtle signs though. My old psychiatric nurses all said there was something odd about the way I interacted with them, but at the time I just put it down to depression. Something must be showing through to the people who have spent some time with me.
>There are wasy to learn to cope with the differences we have from neuro-typicals and even to turn some aspects of it into advantages.
Yes, like Temple Grandin's obsession with agricultural equipment leading to her career at Colorado University. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_Grandin
>Tony Atwood and Lorna Wing Publishers have a lot of good books on AS--it's a good starting place for reading.
I read Tony Atwood's website a while ago and I noticed he had some good books on CBT methods on dealing with problems arising with AS. I think that would be a better approach than standard CBT for me. Have you had anything like that yourself?
>Any other questions, I'd be happy to answer. ramsea
Thank you for your help - it's good to be able to talk to someone who actually has the disorder.
Q
Posted by ramsea on January 9, 2007, at 13:43:57
In reply to Re: Asperger's Syndrome test results.............. » ed_uk, posted by Quintal on January 9, 2007, at 12:56:51
Quintal,
I don't know if you read my 2nd post or not, but I did describe some of my situation as an aspie.You know being on the autistic spectrum doesn't disqualify you from finding a suitable partner.
I can recommend some books which discuss the matter. Experts used to say that aspies never marry but that is nonsense and proven to be quite wrong.
It can make communication difficult at times, but aspies have a tendency to find partners--when they do find one--who mesh well with their idiosyncracies and to some extent make up for their own "deficiences".
I have been married twice--the first was rather disastrous, he didn't get me at all except that he liked my looks, but second time around I am in a happy, comfortable place. I admit I am tremendously lucky in this regard, but I also have worked hard to learn how to get on.
As a female, I score on aspie testing in such a way as to be unlike 80% of other females in the way that I interact and perceive the world (apparently), but my partner is fine with this. We aren't stereotypes.
Some people say we're eccentric, but very nice. He does a lot of the cooking and we are both pretty messy, though we try to stay clean. Our living space is artistic and colorful.
Hope this makes some sense. I'm just saying--it takes all kinds in the world and there may well be someone who matches you quite nicely, eccentricities and all. best, ramsea
Posted by Declan on January 9, 2007, at 15:10:34
In reply to Re: Asperger's Syndrome test results.............. » ramsea, posted by Quintal on January 9, 2007, at 13:41:54
My daughter says of me 'how come he's got that death stare' but it only means I'm starting to feel uncomfortable.
How to Make People Like You? What a wonderful title.
Posted by Declan on January 10, 2007, at 1:15:48
In reply to Re: Asperger's Syndrome test results.............., posted by Declan on January 9, 2007, at 15:10:34
I have had a lot of trouble that seems to stem from an overliteralness. Take the one you can't avoid (several times a day, so you get practice): How are you? I take the other person's point and drift, and find lying difficult since they will detect it at once......they already know, it's written all over my face, that's why I usually don't ask them because I know already (it's all one big mind around here). The answer is (always) 'allright', but it has acquired a number of nuances.
But take another example. Suppose you were to say to me 'can you give me some money?'. My thoughts/feelings run as follows 'If you had asked me whether I wanted to give you money I would be in a position to say 'No'. Unfortunately this was not your question, the answer to which is that I can'.
Maybe this is boundaries, sense of self, engulfment? But what about the autist's lack of a theory of mind?...and from here on I need help.
The reason I made that quip about ADHD was that if I talk about this kind of stuff to a shrink I expect a script for an AP (especially should I lose patience and start using metaphors like rays and forcefields), whereas I have found stimulants (very briefly) helpful in enabling me to keep track of this in social situations. They are not therapeutic for me, not healthy, but neither is the fear that can arise when this stuff goes wrong. All quite entertaining though.
Posted by Declan on January 10, 2007, at 1:23:31
In reply to Re: Asperger's Syndrome test results.............., posted by Declan on January 10, 2007, at 1:15:48
You might remember the category of 'depleted narcissist', from a psychodynamic alternative to the DSM, posted by Pseudoname.
This was a definate attraction, although I fear that I am a very unsuccessful narcissist. Maybe some people are just solipsistic?
Posted by ed_uk on January 10, 2007, at 14:08:26
In reply to Re: Asperger's Syndrome test results.............., posted by Declan on January 10, 2007, at 1:15:48
Good evening Dec,
>But take another example. Suppose you were to say to me 'can you give me some money?'. My thoughts/feelings run as follows 'If you had asked me whether I wanted to give you money I would be in a position to say 'No'. Unfortunately this was not your question, the answer to which is that I can'.
I ought to try asking you that Dec ;-)
Ed
Posted by Quintal on January 11, 2007, at 14:46:58
In reply to Re: Asperger's Syndrome test results.............., posted by Declan on January 10, 2007, at 1:15:48
>I have had a lot of trouble that seems to stem from an overliteralness. Take the one you can't avoid (several times a day, so you get practice): How are you? I take the other person's point and drift, and find lying difficult since they will detect it at once......they already know, it's written all over my face, that's why I usually don't ask them because I know already (it's all one big mind around here). The answer is (always) 'allright', but it has acquired a number of nuances.
I learned that only when I was about 22. The problem was that in our house everyone did take it literally and would launch into a detailed description of their bowel movements, bunions, and piles etc. It took me a while to figure out this is normally considered rude, but it left me baffled as to why people go around asking pointless questions. It's like conversation in general - often seems like making noise for the sake of distraction to me.
>Maybe this is boundaries, sense of self, engulfment? But what about the autist's lack of a theory of mind?...and from here on I need help.
I have a pretty good *theory* of mind, as you seem to too Declan, but it's putting it into practise that's the problem. It seems that something goes wrong with the coordination of scanning for social cues, interpreting them and responding properly at the right time. I just can't do it - like juggling. I can't do that either for more than a few seconds. Interesting that so many people on the autistic spectrum are physically clumsy as well. I think I've read that exercises that improve balance such as trampolines and balancing balls have been used to treat some autistic features. Anybody tried them? I was looking at a balancing ball the other day, I wonder if I should buy it?
Q
Posted by Quintal on January 11, 2007, at 15:33:25
In reply to Re: Asperger's Syndrome test results.............., posted by Declan on January 10, 2007, at 1:23:31
>You might remember the category of 'depleted narcissist', from a psychodynamic alternative to the DSM, posted by Pseudoname.
This was a definate attraction, although I fear that I am a very unsuccessful narcissist. Maybe some people are just solipsistic?I don't think autists are really any more narcissistic than 'NT's' per se. They just have trouble disguising their wants and needs and blending them in with the those of 'the group' the way most people do because of the communication barrier (which is supposedly neurological) - and that makes them seem to be more demanding and self-centred at times. Well, that's my theory anyway. The autist's needs and wants seem to be very different at times than those of most people in any case.
I think one thing that separates autists from narcissists is their empathy with animals. I can see an animal's point of view and I get along very well with them because I understand their simple requests and needs. It's with other humans that I run into communication problems.
Q
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