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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by willyee on January 8, 2007, at 11:39:30
Just wanted everyone to know (well who wants to know)that although a long,very long night,i did get to sleep.
I underestimated the drug because of the size,never had i seen this type,and i have seen the orignal,the U.S based generic,and one other outside.
It was from the same company outside,GOLDSHIELD,however the pills were flat like buttons on a kids shirt,and i again underestimated them.
I agree with all of you,and i have taken steps prior where as the majority of my meds are with someone else,i just hold a small quantity as not to bug the person,but even this was too much to have last night,but im a grown man,well lol some will argue that ha,but i knew better.Thanks for the responses i will not make that mistake again i assure.
Posted by dbc on January 8, 2007, at 12:22:35
In reply to Follow up, posted by willyee on January 8, 2007, at 11:39:30
I dont know you or anything but please dont do that again, you will kill yourself or end up in a coma.
SYMPTOMS: The characteristic symptoms that may be caused by overdosage are usually those described above.
However, an intensification of these symptoms and sometimes severe additional manifestations may be seen, depending on the degree of overdosage and on individual susceptibility. Some patients exhibit insomnia, restlessness and anxiety, progressing in severe cases to agitation, mental confusion and incoherence. Hypotension, dizziness, weakness and drowsiness may occur, progressing in severe cases to extreme dizziness and shock. A few patients have displayed hypertension with severe headache and other symptoms. Rare instances have been reported in which hypertension was accompanied by twitching or myoclonic fibrillation of skeletal muscles with hyperpyrexia, sometimes progressing to generalized rigidity and coma.
Posted by gardenergirl on January 8, 2007, at 12:23:18
In reply to Follow up, posted by willyee on January 8, 2007, at 11:39:30
Posted by shasling on January 8, 2007, at 12:26:17
In reply to Follow up, posted by willyee on January 8, 2007, at 11:39:30
Posted by Phillipa on January 8, 2007, at 14:18:20
In reply to Re: Follow up, posted by dbc on January 8, 2007, at 12:22:35
Will please don't do it again good idea about the meds. Love Phillipa
Posted by notfred on January 8, 2007, at 15:15:03
In reply to Follow up, posted by willyee on January 8, 2007, at 11:39:30
"Thanks for the responses i will not make that mistake again i assure."
How about seeing a doc and stop ordering meds off the internet ? That, as I see it, is the real problem. That, & also that this board enables these kind of deadly behaviors.
Posted by SLS on January 9, 2007, at 5:47:50
In reply to Follow up, posted by willyee on January 8, 2007, at 11:39:30
I know it sounds harsh, but Notfred makes some points worth considering.
That said, there was a time when I did some pretty crazy things with drugs, even while under the care of a doctor. Of course, it was without his consent.
Desperation can lead a man to do desperate things.
Try not to reach states of desperation. Know that you will get well. There are too many drug combinations available for you not to. Take things one step at a time. Create logical algorithms and stick to them. Understand the time that these algorithms will take, and accept it. While you are in the process of your drug trials, try to distract yourself with living life in the moment, despite your depression, and don't try to micromanage your dosing. Allow 3 weeks after dosage adjustments before evaluating the results and making further adjustments. Try not to look at your depression under a microscope all of the time. Again, try to live in the moment and participate as much as possible. You might as well. You have nothing else better to do. Use all of what little you currently have to work with, and recognize the tremendous personal achievement in doing so. You have some genuine reasons to remain hopeful.
- Scott
Posted by willyee on January 9, 2007, at 7:10:24
In reply to Re: Follow up, posted by notfred on January 8, 2007, at 15:15:03
> "Thanks for the responses i will not make that mistake again i assure."
>
> How about seeing a doc and stop ordering meds off the internet ? That, as I see it, is the real problem. That, & also that this board enables these kind of deadly behaviors.Hmm i dont believe i posted anything about not being under the care of a docter.
I also dident mention if used a script or not since MANY overseas sources do allow,or ACTUALY require a prescription.
Not that i have to explain myself,but i have scanned,and faxed presriptions over to pharmacys overseas,which pretty much answers your very polite lol post to me.
That said,being under the care of a docter doesent mean you cant abuse medication,the person does that.
I dident excuse myself in the post so both your recomendations seem slightly out of line.
I will continue to broaden my medication outside the U.S as docters feel fit.I also am personaly and i can get warned and what have you not for this that this whole "dont do anything without a docter" thing is overplayed.I know personaly,and read countless accounting of docters misprecbing,overprescribing,prescrbing carelessly in general,etc etc.
Lets not make it seem that being under the care of a professional who sees you once a month if you live in a area and are that lucky,for 15 minutes,hardly remebering your name each time,has to be a persons only option of treating there depression.
I am not gonna wait,now i again never exsused myself from personaly being irresponsable,i never advocated it,i dident mention a source even though a prescription was invovled,so it seems aside from my personal mistake,the second one was opening up that much information.
For those whos posts were sincere,i thank you,for any that were simply a jump at me,again i FEEL,believe or whatever words im to used to not get warned,that certain posts were just simply a attack on me.
Anyone who has read any of my posts knows ive used just about all the maois over a 5 year span,i personaly provided links on them,and although a person could know better,i did not realise youre not allowed to make a mistake.
So im sorry for making the mistake,and well actualy even more so for posting it.Thanks for the sitting in the corner,now i learned sir.
Posted by halcyondaze on January 9, 2007, at 7:31:50
In reply to Re: Follow up, posted by willyee on January 9, 2007, at 7:10:24
While I don't agree with the harsh manner in which it was stated, I do agree that NO ONE should be taking medication unless under the care of a doctor. You did not go to medical school for eight years. They did. Granted, there are some very bad doctors out there, which is why you should put your effort into finding a good one (I swear, they exist!) rather than self-medicating.
We all do it. I do it, for sure. I have abused the heck out of Parnate. But I am under a physican's care and she knows about it and has taken preventative measures - ie prescribing Nifedipine, holding meds, ordering medical tests when necessary.
Operating with yourself as your doctor is a very dangerous game.
Posted by SLS on January 9, 2007, at 8:01:51
In reply to Re: Follow up, posted by willyee on January 9, 2007, at 7:10:24
> Hmm i dont believe i posted anything about not being under the care of a docter.
Oops. My apologies.
Sorry, Will.
Please don't take offense. I think people's motives for posting are meant to be helpful.
Like I said, I've done some pretty ill-advised things with drugs out of desperation, despite being under a doctor's care. Depression is such a frustrating and painful experience, and it is unrelenting. I would do anything to escape it.
I wish you nothing but luck in you pursuit of remission from this illness.
- Scott
Posted by shasling on January 9, 2007, at 8:06:55
In reply to Re: Follow up, posted by halcyondaze on January 9, 2007, at 7:31:50
The man said hes under the care of a doctor, and that he made a mistake; what more can we want from him? Maybe we can all get some boundaries and worry about our own treatment and stop worrying about that of others... not that this person is necessarily one of them but there have always been and will always be people here who feel the need to self-medicate to get some relief. Thats a personal decision made by the suffering and scolding them isnt likely to change their minds. Nor should their doing so 'encourage' others to do the same, again with the boundaries and responsibility for self. Im not advocating anything, but can we try to accept that what others decide to do with their suffering is a personal decision, not a group one? Just a suggestion...
Posted by SLS on January 9, 2007, at 8:09:28
In reply to Re: Follow up, posted by willyee on January 9, 2007, at 7:10:24
Hi Will.
I hope time will heal any wounds that you may have suffered here today. When you are ready, I would encourage you to continue to post here in the future in a manner that you have in the past. I believe that it would be beneficial to you and everyone else in the forum. In the meantime, you have my unconditional support.
- Scott
Posted by shasling on January 9, 2007, at 8:21:49
In reply to Re: Follow up » willyee, posted by SLS on January 9, 2007, at 8:09:28
Posted by halcyondaze on January 9, 2007, at 8:27:56
In reply to Re: Follow up, posted by shasling on January 9, 2007, at 8:06:55
> The man said hes under the care of a doctor, and that he made a mistake; what more can we want from him? Maybe we can all get some boundaries and worry about our own treatment and stop worrying about that of others... not that this person is necessarily one of them but there have always been and will always be people here who feel the need to self-medicate to get some relief. Thats a personal decision made by the suffering and scolding them isnt likely to change their minds. Nor should their doing so 'encourage' others to do the same, again with the boundaries and responsibility for self. Im not advocating anything, but can we try to accept that what others decide to do with their suffering is a personal decision, not a group one? Just a suggestion...
So if someone posted in this forum that they intended to commit suicide, it should be ignored?
Playing around with dangerous drugs like MAOIs is equally as damaging, in my opinion. I would not neglect to respond to a post where someone were putting themselves in medical danger in any other situation, nor did I neglect to respond to this one.
Furthermore, this is a public forum. This is not a private blog. The original poster posted about this, knowing that the nature of the forum invites feedback, whether or not a person is ready to hear such feedback or not.
Posted by Tomatheus on January 9, 2007, at 8:57:28
In reply to Follow up, posted by willyee on January 8, 2007, at 11:39:30
Willyee,
Did you take Goldshield's U.K. version of Parnate (sold under the generic name tranylcypromine)? Did it differ from a version of the drug that they market elsewhere?
And I'm confused ... did you take a higher dose of Parnate than you normally take, or did you just switch from one version of Parnate/tranylcypromine to another?
I can say that I've tried taking both the U.S. version of Parnate (the brand-name product manufactured by GlaxoSmithKline) and Goldshield's U.K. version of the drug (the generic tranylcypromine that they market in the U.K.). I didn't give the GlaxoSmithKline version of Parnate anywhere close full trial because the midday sleepiness was just too much for me to handle at the time. Basically, once I started to feel that midday tranquilizing effect, I could not stay awake no matter how hard I tried and no matter how much coffee I tried to drink (and I should probably make it clear that the amount of coffee that I was consuming was at the higher end of the "moderate" range; as you probably know, consuming excessive amounts of caffeine is not recommended, especially while taking Parnate). I stopped taking the GlaxoSmithKline Parnate at 20 mg/day because of the midday sleepiness, but I think it's possible that I might have responded to a higher dose.
When I tried taking Goldshield's U.K. version of Parnate (which, as I mentioned, is sold under the generic name tranylcypromine), I noticed a definite boost in mood and energy right away. In stark contrast to the GlaxoSmithKline Parnate, the Goldshield tranylcypromine that I took (the U.K. version) did not produce any midday sleepiness whatsoever. As the case is with a lot of meds that I take, my response to the U.K. Goldshield Parnate only lasted for a few days and then immediately faded when I was taking it as monotherapy. So, I clearly did not respond to Goldshield's U.K. version of Parnate in the long term while I was taking the medication by itself, but I can say that I found that particular version of the drug to be far more potent than the GlaxoSmithKline version.
My point in comparing my responses to the two versions of Parnate is that I can certainly see how taking a high dose of Goldshield's U.K. version of Parnate/tranylcypromine could have caused you to feel the way that you did. While a dose in excess of 100 mg/day of the GlaxoSmithKline Parnate might only feel moderately activating, I can't imagine the amount of activation that such a dose of Goldshield's U.K. tranylcypromine would produce.
I'm glad to hear that you're ok. I know that I posted some information on the difference that I noticed between the Goldshield Parnate and the GlaxoSmithKline version of the drug in an older thread. However, I probably should have posted again more recently to specifically alert you to the difference that I noticed between the two formulations, considering that I'm probably one of only a few people who's ever tried taking the two versions (separately and at different times, of course).
It is theoretically possible that Goldshield's U.K. version of Parnate/tranylcypromine might not only be more potent than GlaxoSmithKline's U.S. version, but might also differ in some respects from the Parnate/tranylcypromine that the company markets in other countries. Unlike the GlaxoSmithKline version of Parnate and the generic form of the drug that's sold in the U.S., the tranylcypromine tablets that are marketed in the U.K. contain pharmaceutical glaze and carnauba wax, which give the tablets an enteric coating. Even the "old" GlaxoSmithKline version of Parnate that was manufactured until 1991 did not have that layer of protection, but it's possible that it might have dissolved more slowly in the stomach and/or intestinal tract than GSK's current version of the drug. If the tranylcypromine tablets from the U.K. had a different appearance than the Parnate/tranylcypromine pills that Goldshield markets in other countries, then it's certainly possible that the pills marketed outside of the U.K. might lack the enteric coating that the tablets sold in the U.K. possess and might thus be less potent.
At any rate, I'm glad to hear that you're doing ok right now. Please be well.
Tomatheus
> Just wanted everyone to know (well who wants to know)that although a long,very long night,i did get to sleep.
>
> I underestimated the drug because of the size,never had i seen this type,and i have seen the orignal,the U.S based generic,and one other outside.
>
> It was from the same company outside,GOLDSHIELD,however the pills were flat like buttons on a kids shirt,and i again underestimated them.
>
>
> I agree with all of you,and i have taken steps prior where as the majority of my meds are with someone else,i just hold a small quantity as not to bug the person,but even this was too much to have last night,but im a grown man,well lol some will argue that ha,but i knew better.Thanks for the responses i will not make that mistake again i assure.
Posted by shasling on January 9, 2007, at 9:41:16
In reply to Re: Follow up, posted by halcyondaze on January 9, 2007, at 8:27:56
Im not sure theres a reason to be angry. And I'm not going to enter a debate, just posted a suggestion based on my own opinion that we are all responsible for our own selves and our own treatment here. Take it or leave it. And of course, 'treatment' is not the same concept or on the same level as 'suicide'. But, I'm not sure scolding would be effective on that either. Just my opinion.
Posted by willyee on January 9, 2007, at 10:24:45
In reply to Re: Follow up, posted by halcyondaze on January 9, 2007, at 8:27:56
> > The man said hes under the care of a doctor, and that he made a mistake; what more can we want from him? Maybe we can all get some boundaries and worry about our own treatment and stop worrying about that of others... not that this person is necessarily one of them but there have always been and will always be people here who feel the need to self-medicate to get some relief. Thats a personal decision made by the suffering and scolding them isnt likely to change their minds. Nor should their doing so 'encourage' others to do the same, again with the boundaries and responsibility for self. Im not advocating anything, but can we try to accept that what others decide to do with their suffering is a personal decision, not a group one? Just a suggestion...
>
> So if someone posted in this forum that they intended to commit suicide, it should be ignored?
>
> Playing around with dangerous drugs like MAOIs is equally as damaging, in my opinion. I would not neglect to respond to a post where someone were putting themselves in medical danger in any other situation, nor did I neglect to respond to this one.
>
> Furthermore, this is a public forum. This is not a private blog. The original poster posted about this, knowing that the nature of the forum invites feedback, whether or not a person is ready to hear such feedback or not.Ok this is absurd,my question pre-tense,the fact had occured,and i was looking for help.
Many assumptions were based here.
--- First maois are not a med you can easly get without a prescription,least not the older of them.So since i did not state this,i will now,i did have one,it was needed before anything could be done,the company wanted my docters script sent.
---- Second i did state the dangers of doing what i did,so i did not post in a way to encourage maoi combos.
That said,if youre telling me that the use of Maois in various dosages,combinations,and the like are not dicsusses here,ones that are not docter oreinted rather documented such as pubmeds famous article on high dose maoi use and its combo with stimulants,and im one of a minority that would speak of using maois in this way,well then i guess you might want to look at the sites archives before putting at me.Last SCOTT,i did not mean you,or more than half the posters,even if u had a strict posting to me based on your general demeanor to posters i would take it in stride and even a good talking too.
I also would ask the poster getting into the variotion of the brands to email me since at this point i no longer feel like disrupting the group any longer.
Thanks again for the Majority of posters,even monte for you helpful posts on what was the actual problem which was PRETENSE,i noticed in the ones i did find a problem with,nothing was included as a suggestion,which is alll i asked on what they feel might have helped.
That shows me there was no sinceretiy in the post,and agree or not,as you stated thats my view and im sticking to it.
Id personaly like to end this thread here now,people know i have problems letting things go so ill ask of it,i am more concerned that the people who did help,scott suzie monte phillipa and the others showing concern god forget it,was a lot,KNOW I AM GRATEFUL AT THIS MOMENT A MILLION TIMES OVER THAN i am at all upset with the harsness of a few.
Thanks,bless.
Posted by halcyondaze on January 9, 2007, at 10:34:55
In reply to Re: Follow up, posted by willyee on January 9, 2007, at 10:24:45
I apologize sincerely if you took my post to be harsh. I did not intend it as such. I posted out of concern as someone who has abused Parnate and experienced orthostatic hypotension with syncope as a result and ended up in an emergency room. You're absolutely right in stating that high-dose MAOIs are used; I myself have been on as much as 130 mg. However, you would be hard pressed to find a journal article to support a drastic dose escalation like you described, for the very fact of the severe side effects that can occur.
I remember when I first read this board after abusing Parnate; I felt so alone in that, believing that no one else would actually abuse a MAOI, and your posts helped me a lot at the time in dealing with what I was going through, including disclosing to my doctor what I was doing and having her hold onto my pills for me.
So I really do apologize if you took my post in a negative way. I was simply alarmed and concerned for your safety.
Posted by SLS on January 9, 2007, at 10:36:05
In reply to Re: Follow up, posted by halcyondaze on January 9, 2007, at 8:27:56
> So if someone posted in this forum that they intended to commit suicide, it should be ignored?
Definitely not. I know that I would try to intervene in some way.
> I would not neglect to respond to a post where someone were putting themselves in medical danger in any other situation, nor did I neglect to respond to this one.
> Furthermore, this is a public forum. This is not a private blog. The original poster posted about this, knowing that the nature of the forum invites feedback, whether or not a person is ready to hear such feedback or not.
I guess there are different ways to communicate concern.
I find it difficult at times to strike a balance between my passions regarding issues and a desire to make declarations about them, and maintaining a respect and sensitivity towards the the people involved with them. That's my issue, though.
- Scott
Posted by Quintal on January 9, 2007, at 11:40:38
In reply to Follow up, posted by willyee on January 8, 2007, at 11:39:30
Are you sure we're not all blowing this out of proportion? There's no evidence that willyee was really in mortal danger at any point however gratifying it may be to issue stern warnings. I took huge doses of Parnate myself and had no problems, but increased effect. It was lower doses the pdoc prescribed that were the most dangerous because they made me feel very restless and very suicidal - now that is a deadly combo.
My own Goldshield tranylcypromine tablets are deep rose pink and a flattened oval shape like Smarties, but smaller. They have 'FW 251' printed in edible black ink on one side. According to the patient information leaflet the tablets do have a pharmaceutical glaze and a coating of carnauba wax.
I found Parnate most effective in the 80-120mg range.
____________________________________________
Doses of up to 750mg/day have been administered for up to 1 year without adverse effects, and doses up to 200mg/day have been administered for decades, giving tranylcypromine a wide safety margin.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parnate
____________________________________________Q
Posted by willyee on January 9, 2007, at 21:02:52
In reply to Re: Follow up, posted by halcyondaze on January 9, 2007, at 10:34:55
> I apologize sincerely if you took my post to be harsh. I did not intend it as such. I posted out of concern as someone who has abused Parnate and experienced orthostatic hypotension with syncope as a result and ended up in an emergency room. You're absolutely right in stating that high-dose MAOIs are used; I myself have been on as much as 130 mg. However, you would be hard pressed to find a journal article to support a drastic dose escalation like you described, for the very fact of the severe side effects that can occur.
>
> I remember when I first read this board after abusing Parnate; I felt so alone in that, believing that no one else would actually abuse a MAOI, and your posts helped me a lot at the time in dealing with what I was going through, including disclosing to my doctor what I was doing and having her hold onto my pills for me.
>
> So I really do apologize if you took my post in a negative way. I was simply alarmed and concerned for your safety.Thank you,we deal with serious issues and many of us have posted things taken the wrong way,i know i sure have,thanks a million.
This is the end of the thread.
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