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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Phillipa on November 24, 2006, at 21:43:32
In reply to Re: Please feel free to ask any Nardil related qstns » saturn, posted by ace on November 24, 2006, at 21:27:50
Ace what about if your thyroid is hasimotos and has recently gone from hypo to hyper and six weeks before another blood test would nardil mess it up more? I have a lot of autoimmune things. Love Phillipa
Posted by Quintal on November 24, 2006, at 21:49:52
In reply to Re: Please feel free to ask any Nardil related qstns » blueberry, posted by ace on November 24, 2006, at 21:34:37
Thanks for the info ace.
>OK...they do INDEED, on the whole, produce more s/effects than the SSRI's
I was pleasantly surprised to find that Parnate and Marplan caused far fewer side effects than any other type of antidepressant. They had no really troublesome unwanted effects for me, though I can see why the stimulant effect and racing heart beat of high dose Parnate may be unwelcome in elderly patients. I've heard the side effect profile of Nardil is harsher in the sexual department though, which is what has made me wary of it.
Q
Posted by aeon on November 25, 2006, at 5:42:00
In reply to Please feel free to ask any Nardil related qstns, posted by ace on November 23, 2006, at 22:27:32
> Do you gain weight on Nardil?
Yes, I did. It caused huge chocolate cravings.
How much chocolate do you consume? I'm interested because you seem to have a euphoria that is not average... indeed if it were I think the drug would be pulled off the market by now?
I recently read an amine analysis of chocolate and it seems to contain around 2mgs/kg of serotonin, 3mgs/kg Dopamine, 2 mgs kg PEA, and trace amounts of anandamide.
Considering all these things would be allowed into your brain because of the Nardil (I'm not sure if this is the case exactly but just conjecturing) and you were/are eating alot of chocolate (which most people tend to avoid on MAOI's - illfounded reasons of course) then maybe some of these chemicals are making their way in?
I am interested as I am on Parnate and am thinking of trying to make it more nice, not just merely energising, so am going to try to eat lotsa dark dark chocolate to see what happens.
Thanks for your input!
aeon
Posted by blueberry on November 25, 2006, at 6:03:33
In reply to Please feel free to ask any Nardil related qstns, posted by ace on November 23, 2006, at 22:27:32
Thankyou very much ace for your thoughtful answers to my questions. I appreciate that. You know, the most important thing to keep going is "hope", and I believe you are handing it out like candy. That's great.
I went to rememdyfind.com to see how nardil rates among realtime users. I have also looked at most of the other meds there. Among all the meds that had enough contributors to make a valid average score, I could not find anything that rated higher than nardil for effectiveness and longterm use. Modafinil was very close.
With all the ssris and snris there are enough contributors saying how they got more depressed on their meds that it makes me kind of wary. But for nardil, there was only one person who said he got worse.
Posted by naughtypuppy on November 25, 2006, at 10:36:22
In reply to Re: Please feel free to ask any Nardil related qstns » ace, posted by blueberry on November 25, 2006, at 6:03:33
> Thankyou very much ace for your thoughtful answers to my questions. I appreciate that. You know, the most important thing to keep going is "hope", and I believe you are handing it out like candy. That's great.
>
> I went to rememdyfind.com to see how nardil rates among realtime users. I have also looked at most of the other meds there. Among all the meds that had enough contributors to make a valid average score, I could not find anything that rated higher than nardil for effectiveness and longterm use. Modafinil was very close.
>
> With all the ssris and snris there are enough contributors saying how they got more depressed on their meds that it makes me kind of wary. But for nardil, there was only one person who said he got worse.Make that two. After 4 months of really no improvement, I started to go off the deep end. A couple of days after quiting Nardil, I improved quite a bit. It is a very effective AD, but I guess it's not for everybody. Parnate was working for me, but I had a bad allergic reaction to it. I do agree with you though that ssri's are the hind end of AD's. One of the reasons that they are pushed so hard is that they weren't discovered by accident like most of the others. This makes it appear that doctors aren't just guessing when they write out a prescription.
Posted by Caedmon on November 25, 2006, at 14:20:55
In reply to Re: Please feel free to ask any Nardil related qst » Phillipa, posted by ace on November 24, 2006, at 20:42:35
> > Ace why are you stopping it for six months? Love Phillipa
>
> To regain the euphoria. Don't get me wrong, Nardil makes me feel very good now. But a health euphoria is even better!>I am not sure this is how I would personally approach drug therapy. But, best of luck,
- Chris
Posted by Declan on November 25, 2006, at 14:28:59
In reply to Re: Please feel free to ask any Nardil related qst, posted by aeon on November 25, 2006, at 5:42:00
My nutritional doctor recommended that eat dark chocolate (with ginger) when I was on deprenyl.
Posted by ed_uk on November 25, 2006, at 15:22:31
In reply to Re: Please feel free to ask any Nardil related qst » ace, posted by Caedmon on November 25, 2006, at 14:20:55
>stopping it for six months
You've stopped it before Ace, it was a disaster, remember? You will never be able to achieve a state of permanent euphoria Ace, it's not possible. If you feel good, you should be satisfied with your treatment. Do not expect to feel fantastic all the time!
Take care
Ed
Posted by ace on November 26, 2006, at 21:24:42
In reply to Re: Please feel free to ask any Nardil related qstns ?blueberry ?ace, posted by Quintal on November 24, 2006, at 21:49:52
> Thanks for the info ace
A pleasure!
>
> >OK...they do INDEED, on the whole, produce more s/effects than the SSRI's
>
> I was pleasantly surprised to find that Parnate and Marplan caused far fewer side effects than any other type of antidepressant. They had no really troublesome unwanted effects for me, though I can see why the stimulant effect and racing heart beat of high dose Parnate may be unwelcome in elderly patients. I've heard the side effect profile of Nardil is harsher in the sexual department though, which is what has made me wary of it.
>
> QYeah, but please remember we can use agents to combat those sexual s/effects. It's great you had little s/effects on the other MAOI's. This might predict very few on nardil.
Take great care!
Ace:)
Posted by ace on November 26, 2006, at 21:30:35
In reply to Re: Please feel free to ask any Nardil related qst, posted by aeon on November 25, 2006, at 5:42:00
> > Do you gain weight on Nardil?
>
> Yes, I did. It caused huge chocolate cravings.
>
> How much chocolate do you consume? I'm interested because you seem to have a euphoria that is not average... indeed if it were I think the drug would be pulled off the market by now?I consumed a lot! I cannot quantify it other than saying a lot. Euphoria is quite common to Nardil. But the euphoria isn't pathological. It is pleasent and motivating, but doesn't induce deleterious behaviour. Although euphoria is commonly listed as a s/effect....
> I recently read an amine analysis of chocolate and it seems to contain around 2mgs/kg of serotonin, 3mgs/kg Dopamine, 2 mgs kg PEA, and trace amounts of anandamide.
>
> Considering all these things would be allowed into your brain because of the Nardil (I'm not sure if this is the case exactly but just conjecturing) and you were/are eating alot of chocolate (which most people tend to avoid on MAOI's - illfounded reasons of course) then maybe some of these chemicals are making their way in?I doubt it very much. The caffeine in the chocolate can diffuse through the Blood Brain Barrier, but with regars to augmenting the neurotransmitters you speak off, I find it highly unlikely.
> I am interested as I am on Parnate and am thinking of trying to make it more nice, not just merely energising, so am going to try to eat lotsa dark dark chocolate to see what happens.I really doubt much will happen, but give it a go! I would look at augmenting if you want a more robust effect.
> Thanks for your input!
> aeonNo problems friend!
Ace
Posted by ace on November 26, 2006, at 21:35:23
In reply to Re: Please feel free to ask any Nardil related qstns ?ace, posted by blueberry on November 25, 2006, at 6:03:33
> Thankyou very much ace for your thoughtful answers to my questions. I appreciate that.
Absolutely my pleasure!
You know, the most important thing to keep going is "hope", and I believe you are handing it out like candy. That's great.Thanks heaps! I think hope and faith, although scientifically quantifiable, are necessary ingridients to success! So, whenever you start a new drug, as best as you can, have faith!
I truly believe deep down that it helped my wobderful response to nardil. From day one I had this faith in that drug! I don't know why, but i did!>
> I went to rememdyfind.com to see how nardil rates among realtime users. I have also looked at most of the other meds there. Among all the meds that had enough contributors to make a valid average score, I could not find anything that rated higher than nardil for effectiveness and longterm use. Modafinil was very close.Its funny, I am obsessive, and I have collected thousands of anecdotes on nardil + other drugs. NEVER have i seen so many positive respnses to a drug than nardil!
> With all the ssris and snris there are enough contributors saying how they got more depressed on their meds that it makes me kind of wary. But for nardil, there was only one person who said he got worse.But, at first Nardil made some of my sx worse. Actually if that happens in the early days it can predict a good response!
SSRI's and the like...hmmm...I'm not a big fan!
Take good care friend!
Ace
Posted by Quintal on November 26, 2006, at 22:54:37
In reply to Re: Please feel free to ask any Nardil related qstns » Quintal, posted by ace on November 26, 2006, at 21:24:42
>Yeah, but please remember we can use agents to combat those sexual s/effects
What can be used safely with Nardil? I've heard of cyproheptadine being used with SSRIs, but that's probably dangerous with MAOIs? Wellbutrin or cabergoline?
Q
Posted by aeon on November 27, 2006, at 4:37:40
In reply to Re: Please feel free to ask any Nardil related qst » aeon, posted by ace on November 26, 2006, at 21:30:35
Thanks for the info.
What do you suggest for augmenting parnate?
Or I am thinking I might just change over to Nardil, I don't think parnate is that great, a
Posted by ace on November 27, 2006, at 18:35:57
In reply to Re: Please feel free to ask any Nardil related qst, posted by ed_uk on November 25, 2006, at 15:22:31
> >stopping it for six months
>
> You've stopped it before Ace, it was a disaster, remember? You will never be able to achieve a state of permanent euphoria Ace, it's not possible. If you feel good, you should be satisfied with your treatment. Do not expect to feel fantastic all the time!
>
> Take care
>
> Ed
I see what you mean. When i stopped it however I never really gave it suffiecient time to fully washout, i went to Parnate the dext day, and Anafranil after ten days on the second time.I t5hink it is possible to regain the initial euphoric effects. Basically, my line of reasoning, is, "if I can regain them, why not?"
But then again, I have had this plan for so long...I guess I might be scared to go off!
Thanx mate!
Ace
Posted by ace on November 27, 2006, at 18:39:03
In reply to Re: Please feel free to ask any Nardil related qstns ?Quintal ?ace, posted by Quintal on November 26, 2006, at 22:54:37
> >Yeah, but please remember we can use agents to combat those sexual s/effects
>
> What can be used safely with Nardil? I've heard of cyproheptadine being used with SSRIs, but that's probably dangerous with MAOIs? Wellbutrin or cabergoline?
>
> QPeriactin is perfectly fine BUT beware of an increase in depression/panic/anxiety.
Bethenachol etcMan, I have a whole list at home, remind me to bring them in!
Ace
Posted by ace on November 27, 2006, at 18:40:46
In reply to Re: Please feel free to ask any Nardil related qst, posted by aeon on November 27, 2006, at 4:37:40
> Thanks for the info.
>
> What do you suggest for augmenting parnate?
>
> Or I am thinking I might just change over to Nardil, I don't think parnate is that great, aI would try Nardil. Otherwise augment Parnate with
1. Benzo
2. Lithium
3. Atypical antispychotic
4. Remeron (this is not a bad combo)
5. L-tryptophan
6. Carbamazepinemany more!
Ace
Posted by tgo on November 28, 2006, at 0:00:33
In reply to Re: Please feel free to ask any Nardil related qst » aeon, posted by ace on November 27, 2006, at 18:40:46
Ace,
Did the weight gain stop after a certain amount of time? Does it make you more hungry besides for chocolate? Don't a lot of people gain much more than 10 lbs on it? If you are tired all the time, would you recommend parnate or using nardil plus a stimulant? I'm really concerned about weight gain as I've put on 50 lbs with paxil that I still have not been able to lose.
Thanks for your help!
Posted by BIGDaddyachmed69 on November 28, 2006, at 9:25:50
In reply to Please feel free to ask any Nardil related qstns, posted by ace on November 23, 2006, at 22:27:32
> Hi all!
>
> Uni has finished for another semester so I got some spare time now.
>
> Anyone who is using nardil, please ask me any qstns about it, and I will do my best to help in anyway!
>
> Hope you all have been doing well.
>
> AceI'm not currently taking it...but I was back in the summer of '05. I have severe OCD and some social anxiety...it's actually pretty bad but I've managed to keep it under control with Adderall and Xanax. Anyway, the Nardil made my condition THAT much worse...I was on Paxil and Depakote. It was like day and night. I was so depressed and anxious on Nardil, my OCD was driving me up the wall. That's probably what it was, Nardil isn't recommended for OCD. Just my two cents.
Posted by ace on November 28, 2006, at 19:24:38
In reply to Re: Please feel free to ask any Nardil related qst, posted by tgo on November 28, 2006, at 0:00:33
> Ace,
Hi friend, thanks for the qstn:)
> Did the weight gain stop after a certain amount of time?
YES! BUT, it did take some time. Unfortunately, at one point in time I was on a regime of Nardil, Remeron, and Zyprexa: I became fat! My baseline metabolism dictates a skinny young man....i was shocked!
Does it make you more hungry besides for chocolate?
Yeah. But on the whole, it gives people a real sweet tooth
Don't a lot of people gain much more than 10 lbs on it?
Some do. There are many variables at play here.
But we can uses certain agents to combat the weight gain too. Very rarely, people can lose weight.
If you are tired all the time, would you recommend parnate or using nardil plus a stimulant?I would recommend probably Parnate, but then you could be faced with the problem of insomnia.
If these became too much, I'f hop right onto Nardil. And, if needed, add a low dose of a stimulant. Be very careful mixing stimulants with MAOI's.
I'm really concerned about weight gain as I've put on 50 lbs with paxil that I still have not been able to lose.Parnate also would be better in this regard. However, statistically, Nardil is a more efficacious drug. It's hard for me to recommend Parnate over Nardil, after all the phenomenal things I have read, seen, and experienced on this miracle drug.
Basically I would keep Nardil very close to your mind. Adding a stimulant would also help with weight gain. Also a low dose of Wellbutrin may very much help too.
Hope this helps:)
Ace
> Thanks for your help!
Posted by ace on November 28, 2006, at 19:56:28
In reply to Re: Please feel free to ask any Nardil related qstns » ace, posted by BIGDaddyachmed69 on November 28, 2006, at 9:25:50
> > Hi all!
> >
> > Uni has finished for another semester so I got some spare time now.
> >
> > Anyone who is using nardil, please ask me any qstns about it, and I will do my best to help in anyway!
> >
> > Hope you all have been doing well.
> >
> > Ace
>
> I'm not currently taking it...but I was back in the summer of '05. I have severe OCD and some social anxiety...it's actually pretty bad but I've managed to keep it under control with Adderall and Xanax. Anyway, the Nardil made my condition THAT much worse...I was on Paxil and Depakote. It was like day and night. I was so depressed and anxious on Nardil, my OCD was driving me up the wall. That's probably what it was, Nardil isn't recommended for OCD. Just my two cents.It can be helpful....I had an article which I couldn't find when i checked pub med then
this felloe recieved 100% amelioration off OCD sx
when treated with Nardil.
Posted by Snowbunnie on November 29, 2006, at 19:11:38
In reply to Re: Please feel free to ask any Nardil related qstns » BIGDaddyachmed69, posted by ace on November 28, 2006, at 19:56:28
Ace (or anyone who's taken Nardil): how bad is the edema, or do you get it at all? If you do, how big do your limbs, etc swell up to? Is there anything to treat it, or does it go away on its own..? That's the one side effect that I'm not sure I could handle. But other than that, I really would like to try Nardil. Thanks in advance for any info on this.
Posted by sdb on November 29, 2006, at 19:50:07
In reply to Re: Please feel free to ask any Nardil related qst, posted by Snowbunnie on November 29, 2006, at 19:11:38
Hi ace!
Do you still have any symptoms of anxiety on Nardil?
kind regards
sdb
Posted by sdb on November 30, 2006, at 20:00:55
In reply to Re: Please feel free to ask any Nardil }} ace, posted by sdb on November 29, 2006, at 19:50:07
Hi ace!
If you feel well "stay the course". But don't forget to reflect on yourself. Some anxiety and some bad emotions are "normal", almost everybody has such feelings. Pay attention of drug interactions.
Stay the course buttake care
sdb
Posted by CrimsonVik on December 1, 2006, at 0:40:25
In reply to Re: Please feel free to ask any Nardil related qst » Caedmon, posted by ace on November 23, 2006, at 23:13:48
Ace, after I got my 1st Nardil today, I chose a new restaurant to visit and even had a Margarita. It felt so good.
My only mistake: Guacamole (NO avacados on MAOIS).
C.>
> OK. Nardil helps depression and anxiety, period. Regardless of what causes what. For instance, before using Nardil, I was very socially phobic. I could not eat in public, felt extremely self conscious in certain clothes, and was shy around woman. After Nardil kicked in, I was so uninhibited and happy- I talked to ANY girl, I dressed in all sorts of crazy ways, and I could and still can eat in front of 10000000 people!
> Nardil definately helps avoidance behaviours too. In essence, it helps ALL anxiety disorders (maybe not OCD so much) regardless of their nuances.
>
>
>> Ace
>
>
Posted by ThaiClinch on January 8, 2007, at 2:01:28
In reply to Re: Nardil, stay the course, take care }} ace, posted by sdb on November 30, 2006, at 20:00:55
Congradulations Ace, looks like you found something that works for you. Was looking for the advice on everyone who knows a little about either Nardil or Mania. Perhaps you could brainstorm a solution that would also help other people too. Thankyou,
Anyways, Will try to shorten this 2 1/2 year mini-biography as short as much, ThaiClinch: Tried 14 different anti-depressants, has treatment resistant depression for 2.5 years, tried Nardil it worked somewhat but went manic before experiencing the positive parts. Anyways, I original took a dose of 60mg-75mg which made me slightly hypomanic, but enough so to forget how many pills I was taking, it also made me hypomanic enough to start researching wierd stuff and somewhat paranoid. 60mg no longer does that so maybe the brain healed up, adapted, or because I gained weight?
After forgetting the number of pills (which may have varied from 75-115, lack the memory of that time), I discovered that I had may be having a cardiac event(when in truth it was probably mania making me believe it so). In that stage, I believed I was likely too die, because of this I remained as calm as possible and called the doctor several times who was not there, and then his secretary and his pager, which were not there. Then dialed 9/11 and they showed up. I started regaining my sanity, however they took me to a hospital and I started to act very aggressively toward a counselor and policemen(which was simultaneously both manic and stupid). Was cuffed and then went out for about 3 days. Apparently friends said I was seeing tigers, ramming doors and trying to escape. So I was sent to a Mental Institution, which I remember very little of. After which I got out 1 day before my birthday as I recall.
10 months later....after trying numerous more failed anti-d's and augmentations, The psychiatrist nardil might be worth a try because me going into nearly a 10 month long resistant deep depression and anxious state again(he is a good man, but very slow with things) got so he finally tried nardil at a lower dosage and got up to 60mg after about 13 weeks. Presently feel more motivated, my mood is kind of flat but better than deep depression, and my anxiety hasn't changed, but Im more confident because I have the energy to get out of bed and get and read books and train. So about 60% of my old self. The problem is finding a way to getup to 75mg without becoming hypomanic(which would be great if there is such thing as a rational hypomanic let me know) or mania.
His solution is to wait, wait, and wait and maybe increase half a pill, increase and alot of Zyprexa, which removes my motivation for about 17 hours of the day. It's smart from a safety and not taking any risks perspective, but not for a "getting undepressed" one. He is more open to increasing the dosage, but only if taking alot of Zyprexa.
Not looking for euphoria or being high. Just a way to be somewhat close to how I was before the depression, which was outgoing person, well-read (I like to imagine, with enough sense to realize everybody is better than me at something.
Anyways, are there any meds that don't work like Zyprexa and other anti-psychotics that block dopamine and seretonin by making you sluggish? Heard keeping busy, and taking a ton of omega 3 oil helps brain health and keep someone rational. But even 1 of your collective smarts is alot more than me. If 4-5 of you could come up with some kind of plan that would be far more helpful then just me and my psychiatrist trying to figure out something for another 2.5 years. Thankyou Ace, other fellow members your help is very much appreciated and if I can return the favor Ill be pleased to do it.
ThaiClinch
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