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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 11 to 35 of 75. Go back in thread:
Posted by Quintal on December 3, 2006, at 12:10:01
In reply to Re: Illness increases vulnerability to the irratio » linkadge, posted by Phillipa on December 3, 2006, at 11:37:45
>Link what could lithium due to hurt your Mother's kidneys to the point of dyalysis? I've not heard of lithium being toxic to the Kidney? Love Phillipa
My first pdoc steered me away from lithium on the grounds he had seen people suffer thyroid and kidey damage after long-term treatment.
Q
Posted by Squiggles on December 3, 2006, at 12:17:34
In reply to Re: Illness increases vulnerability to the irrational » Squiggles, posted by Quintal on December 3, 2006, at 12:02:16
The treatment of mental illness is
demanding and chronic. If I had my
way I would apply Dr. Fuller Torrey's
ideas of insitutions. However, we now
have so many people and so many with
depression, that it may end up being
worse.Not all doctors fit your characterization
though. You might try looking for someone
else.Squiggles
Posted by SLS on December 3, 2006, at 12:23:03
In reply to Re: Illness increases vulnerability to the irratio » SLS, posted by linkadge on December 3, 2006, at 11:05:14
> Oh I see, so the fact that AP's can cause TD is just a matter of opinion?
Pretty much. The degree to which atypical antipsychotic drugs like Abilify and Seroquel produce TD has yet to be acknowledged and quantified. Is it a fact that Abilify produces TD? Not yet. Maybe later.
The fact that lithium dammaged my mothers kidneys and she might soon need dialysis, thats just a matter of opinion?
Of course it is. However, it is an opinion that is overwhelmingly agreed upon. I'm not saying that true facts don't exist. I'm just saying that in the minds of men, they can exist only as belief and opinion with relative degrees of certainty that vary according to the holder of that belief and opinion.
- Scott
Posted by linkadge on December 3, 2006, at 12:40:06
In reply to Re: Illness increases vulnerability to the irratio » Quintal, posted by Squiggles on December 3, 2006, at 12:17:34
>not a naturopath,
>not a faith healer, not an activist, not
>a vitamin pusher, etc.).You speak as if these may not be legitimate forms of healing for some people.
One person's cure cannot be compared to another person's. Some of my most well states have been through the use of herbs and vitamins.
Sometimes the so called "big guns" blew a big hole in me.
The reason people like to bash one form of treatment and praise another is that it helps to clean up confusion, and reduce anxiety a person may have over treatment options.
To categorize treaments like this may make ones choice seem clear, but not necessarily any more valid or correct.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on December 3, 2006, at 12:42:13
In reply to Re: Illness increases vulnerability to the irratio, posted by linkadge on December 3, 2006, at 12:40:06
In that light, doctor bob could be seen as a "vitamin pusher", as he has a board dedicated to the use of alternative treatments.
Ie. A very knowledgable and respectable psychiatrist has his mind open to more than just "drugs".
Linkadge
Posted by Squiggles on December 3, 2006, at 12:43:35
In reply to Re: Illness increases vulnerability to the irratio, posted by linkadge on December 3, 2006, at 12:40:06
You are free to do the right thing
and free to do the wrong thing.
Good luck.Squiggles
Posted by Klavot on December 3, 2006, at 12:43:53
In reply to Re: Illness increases vulnerability to the irrational » Squiggles, posted by Quintal on December 3, 2006, at 12:02:16
> I think you've raised a good point Squiggles, so I don't want to come across as joining in the scrum, but to me at least psychiatry is beginning to look more and more like a sophisticated, government sanctioned form of quackery itself.
>
> QIf you think psychiatry is quackery, then just don't use it.
Posted by Squiggles on December 3, 2006, at 12:47:05
In reply to Re: Illness increases vulnerability to the irratio, posted by linkadge on December 3, 2006, at 12:42:13
> In that light, doctor bob could be seen as a "vitamin pusher", as he has a board dedicated to the use of alternative treatments.
>
> Ie. A very knowledgable and respectable psychiatrist has his mind open to more than just "drugs".
>
> LinkadgeYes, I wish he wouldn't. I suppose he
believes in democracy. But I don't -- not
in medicine.Squiggles
Posted by linkadge on December 3, 2006, at 12:48:26
In reply to Re: Illness increases vulnerability to the irratio » linkadge, posted by SLS on December 3, 2006, at 12:23:03
First off, I was referring to older AP's.
Second, I think that its just "your opinion" that the side effects from these treatments are just opinion. It is my opinion, that they are fact.
What good does it do to consider SSRI induces sexual dysfunction for instance, as a point of view?
Patient: "Hi doctor, prozac is making me impotent"
Doctor: "Well thats just your opinion".
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on December 3, 2006, at 12:52:05
In reply to Re: Illness increases vulnerability to the irratio » linkadge, posted by Squiggles on December 3, 2006, at 12:43:35
>You are free to do the right thing
>and free to do the wrong thing.
>Good luck.With this sort of thing, I don't think there is such a think as right and wrong choices.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on December 3, 2006, at 12:58:46
In reply to Re: Illness increases vulnerability to the irratio » linkadge, posted by Squiggles on December 3, 2006, at 12:47:05
>Yes, I wish he wouldn't. I suppose he
>believes in democracy. But I don't -- not
>in medicine
Where do you think a lot of these drugs came from?So, the people who discovered the painkilling properties of chewing on the tree bark that eventually became asprin were a bunch of quacks?
And the psychatrists at Harvard who discovered the mood stabilizing properties of omega-3, are just a bunch of quacks too?
So, I found omega-3 was a better choice for me for mood than lithium. I'm doing better in school, I feel better, sleeping better. So whats wrong with that? Is that all in my head? I really don't care...."go with it till it stops working for ya".
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on December 3, 2006, at 13:03:12
In reply to Re: Illness increases vulnerability to the irratio, posted by linkadge on December 3, 2006, at 12:58:46
Lithium wasn't always a drug you know.
But then again, I suppose the people who travelled hundreds of miles to drink of the famous healig lithium containing water springs, were probably, at the time, considered a bunch of quacks too.
Linkadge
Posted by Squiggles on December 3, 2006, at 13:03:54
In reply to Re: Illness increases vulnerability to the irratio » Squiggles, posted by linkadge on December 3, 2006, at 12:52:05
> >You are free to do the right thing
> >and free to do the wrong thing.
> >Good luck.
>
> With this sort of thing, I don't think there is such a think as right and wrong choices.
>
> Linkadge
>
>
>There must be.
If SSRI(e.g. Prozac) makes
you impotent and you don't want that, then
taking Prozac is the wrong thing to do.If, on the other hand, SSRI(Celexa) does not
make you as impotent, then taking Celexa is
the right thing to do.Squiggles
Posted by linkadge on December 3, 2006, at 13:04:13
In reply to Re: Illness increases vulnerability to the irratio, posted by linkadge on December 3, 2006, at 13:03:12
How can somebody ever find a new cure, if the only "true cures", are the ones that have already been established?
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on December 3, 2006, at 13:07:54
In reply to Re: Illness increases vulnerability to the irratio » linkadge, posted by Squiggles on December 3, 2006, at 13:03:54
>If SSRI(e.g. Prozac) makes
>you impotent and you don't want that, then
>taking Prozac is the wrong thing to do.>If, on the other hand, SSRI(Celexa) does not
>make you as impotent, then taking Celexa is
>the right thing to do.If only it were that simple.
Linkadge
Posted by Squiggles on December 3, 2006, at 13:14:01
In reply to Re: Illness increases vulnerability to the irratio, posted by linkadge on December 3, 2006, at 12:58:46
> >Yes, I wish he wouldn't. I suppose he
> >believes in democracy. But I don't -- not
> >in medicine
>
>
> Where do you think a lot of these drugs came from?
>Plants, herbs, fungii, animal poisons, enzymes, viruses, or synthetic derivatives from them, etc.
> So, the people who discovered the painkilling properties of chewing on the tree bark that eventually became asprin were a bunch of quacks?
> And the psychatrists at Harvard who discovered the mood stabilizing properties of omega-3, are just a bunch of quacks too?
>
> So, I found omega-3 was a better choice for me for mood than lithium. I'm doing better in school, I feel better, sleeping better. So whats wrong with that? Is that all in my head? I really don't care...."go with it till it stops working for ya".Many plants and poisons in nature are therapeutic for illnesses. What medicine does is bring them into the mainstream by testing them and making them safe and appropriate for individual cases. That's why the FDA and other agencies exist. It eliminates risk and regulates crime in the trade of these substances.
Squiggles
Posted by Squiggles on December 3, 2006, at 13:17:35
In reply to Re: Illness increases vulnerability to the irratio, posted by linkadge on December 3, 2006, at 13:03:12
> Lithium wasn't always a drug you know.
>
> But then again, I suppose the people who travelled hundreds of miles to drink of the famous healig lithium containing water springs, were probably, at the time, considered a bunch of quacks too.
>
>
>
> Linkadge
>
>
>Considering the geographical location where
lithium is mostly found, I would say no, not
quacks... maybe philosophers. :-)Squiggles
Posted by linkadge on December 3, 2006, at 13:18:44
In reply to Re: Illness increases vulnerability to the irratio » linkadge, posted by Squiggles on December 3, 2006, at 13:14:01
>What medicine does is bring them into the >mainstream by testing them and making them safe >and appropriate for individual cases. That's why >the FDA and other agencies exist. It eliminates >risk and regulates crime in the trade of these >substances.
The FDA does not make drugs safe. It just works to quantify the dammage that they can cause.
And it also works to denounce the theraputic value of anything that cannot be patented.Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on December 3, 2006, at 13:22:06
In reply to Re: Illness increases vulnerability to the irratio » linkadge, posted by Squiggles on December 3, 2006, at 13:17:35
>I would say no, not
>quacks... maybe philosophers.Bingo. They were on to something.
How about this. You take lithium, and I'll take my vitamins and herbs, and lets see who has a better treatment outcome?
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on December 3, 2006, at 13:23:50
In reply to Re: Illness increases vulnerability to the irratio, posted by linkadge on December 3, 2006, at 13:22:06
And what of the high rate of suicide among psychiatrists ?
If anyone should have hope, or be encouraged by the miraculous healing powers of modern psychiatric medicine, it should be the psychatrists.
Linkadge
Posted by Squiggles on December 3, 2006, at 13:32:37
In reply to Re: Illness increases vulnerability to the irratio, posted by linkadge on December 3, 2006, at 13:18:44
> >What medicine does is bring them into the >mainstream by testing them and making them safe >and appropriate for individual cases. That's why >the FDA and other agencies exist. It eliminates >risk and regulates crime in the trade of these >substances.
>
> The FDA does not make drugs safe. It just works to quantify the dammage that they can cause.
> And it also works to denounce the theraputic value of anything that cannot be patented.And what reason does the man-on-the-street have
to trust "natural" substances sold in health food stores, and not the FDA? Are you proposing that I should enter into a political fight because you have found evidence of FDA corruption but not
in the health food arena? Can you prove what you are saying; can you provide legal recourse for bodily harm, in case you are wrong?Squiggles
Posted by SLS on December 3, 2006, at 13:33:01
In reply to Re: Illness increases vulnerability to the irratio, posted by linkadge on December 3, 2006, at 13:22:06
> How about this. You take lithium, and I'll take my vitamins and herbs, and lets see who has a better treatment outcome?
Let's not do that to each other.
- Scott
Posted by Squiggles on December 3, 2006, at 13:45:04
In reply to Re: Illness increases vulnerability to the irratio, posted by linkadge on December 3, 2006, at 13:22:06
> >I would say no, not
> >quacks... maybe philosophers.
>
> Bingo. They were on to something.
>
> How about this. You take lithium, and I'll take my vitamins and herbs, and lets see who has a better treatment outcome?
>
>
>
> Linkadge
>Are you bipolar?
Squiggles
>
Posted by Squiggles on December 3, 2006, at 13:47:27
In reply to Re: Illness increases vulnerability to the irratio, posted by linkadge on December 3, 2006, at 13:23:50
> And what of the high rate of suicide among psychiatrists ?
>
> If anyone should have hope, or be encouraged by the miraculous healing powers of modern psychiatric medicine, it should be the psychatrists.
>
> LinkadgeI think that's irrelevant. Anyone under
sustained stress can crack; doctors also
have access to the right stuff, and know
the lethal dose.Squiggles
Posted by Quintal on December 3, 2006, at 13:56:26
In reply to Re: Illness increases vulnerability to the irrational, posted by Klavot on December 3, 2006, at 12:43:53
>If you think psychiatry is quackery, then just don't use it.
I'll continue to use all resources available to me if I think they may help Kalvot, but now I've tried most of the modern psychoactive medicines available with little success and had similar results with alternative medicines the popular idea that psychiatry is superior in every way to other forms of treatment/healing is wearing thin for me.
Q
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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